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Thread: Inner Worlds

  1. #11
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post


    Judgmental how, in your inner world? Judgmental of various aspects of yourself? Of ideas within your inner world? I ask because I tend to associate judgmental behavior with the outer world.
    Yeah, see, that's the thing. I associate judgment with the outer world too. And, I'm guessing, Ps don't. All that stuff about TJ gooey centers... I think that's Ps not knowing that there's formally less conscious judgment going on in there. They, by contrast, are throwing down inner laws and principles like nobody's business. Maybe.

    I may have seen that worry in some NPs I know. I was reading a post from one INTP on the forum, saying that he constantly regretted alternative routes in his life that he didn't take. Do you think that relates to it? That it's a fear of creating that certainty, and making those decisions that you can't turn back from, because it removes the safety of the huge number of options that were previously available? Not sure if that was just the particular INTP, or whether it's a P problem, or a Ti problem.
    Dunno.

    It might be a bit restrictive to work this stuff in terms of functions. I think it is true that there are times when what we call this function or that is more active than others, and the focus of activity does change. But it might be important to think in terms of wholes. Like, I think if the inner world is being consciously accessed, then both inner judgment and inner perception are relatively more active than the extroverted pair, but some aspects of extroverted content must still be present, just less dynamically so.

    Perhaps this is some idea of seat of consciousness. (Or half the seat, anyway: the inner half. Maybe)
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  2. #12
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    So I wonder how inner worlds get assessed. Measuring them according to some objective standard is possible, I guess. On the one hand, a person being a person has, even needs, some interaction between the two. The inner products go out to meet the world in some way. And outer conditions seep in to inner musing. But on the other hand, the engine of the inner world is a formal renouncing of outer considerations.

    The outer world is just there. In principle it is the same for everybody. (In practice, it's not, but the engine for attending to and managing the outer world is some acceptance that we can compare experiences with each other and with some baseline.) So in principle we know how to deal.

    But inner worlds...?
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  3. #13
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Anyone else get the *feeling* this is a "wrong" topic somehow?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  4. #14
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    yes.

    and what's this *feeling* you speak of? can you avoid references to beauty or feelings or poetry when describing your inner world? (talk of assessing and measuring goes hand-in-hand with discussions of symmetry and science. which seems to make as much sense as the poetic comparisons.)

    perhaps the inner world pertains as much to science as it does to art.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    This is a squirrely topic. Everyone has an inner life, but my impression is there is some distrust in them. Witness for example that persistent notion of a "loop". But, what are these inner worlds? How are they to be assessed? the other persistent notion is "healthy", but what's that?

    See, healthy, obviously, is some kind of balance between inner and outer. The inner world doesn't wander too far of the outer path. But, it's kind of weird to press too closely to the outer path too. You lose the independent aspect to your personality.

    So, the inner world... it makes people nervous to talk too freely of what's in there, but if there's nothing in there, there's no "you" either... so what are they, these inner worlds?
    I may be answering the wrong question, but I shall make a stabbing attempt at what I see you asking. Feel free to correct me if I am missing the point.

    I have always thought of my inner realm as a castle with lands. MBTI terms actually work quite well to describ what each part is functioning as.

    At the center is my Fi Fortress/Castle. There is a moat and the draw bridge is up. Inside, I have a place with many rooms. Some rooms are dedicated to the pursuit of an ideal concept, others are dedicated to invididuals. Si stocks the shelves of each room with information about the subject; Fi decorates. Fi spends most of her time in the tallest tower observing the sky and the lands and jotting down notes. Occasionally she takes a walk in the gardens below. Few enter this realm, none see the tower. SX spends her time between here and the maze.

    Outside the castle walls is my Ne shrubbery maze. It is vast and surrounds the entire castle. Most people I know end up somewhere in here. Size is always relative and fluctuating. There are some who can see over the hedges and observe the castle in the distance, and others for whom they will never know what looms. There is much to see in the shrubbery maze and that occupies those who are wandering there. The illusion is that they entered the maze on their terms.

    Surrounding it all is the Te outer wall. It is useful for sieges. Parts of it are being crafted in the shrubbery maze at select points.

    Wandering in and out of this all is the Self Prez Smoke monster. It can teleport people outside the walls as needed. It likes to argue with SX a lot.


    Idea of the Inner Loop:


    Given the example above, it is when I spend too much time inside the tower reading the same book over and over again. Sometimes what is best is to wander the shrubbery maze myself and see what I can find there. The important things are internal but occasionally need to get their Vitamin D moments.

    Nervous to Talk About:

    There can be a power in naming something and idenfifying what it is. If you lay out a rough drawn map of the inner realm, weaknesses can be discovered by others. The design of the inner realm is to maximize security and minimize vulernability. Not speaking of such things, I believe, more often speaks of what IS there than what isn't. (I realize the self-inflicing irony present here. *readies her aerial attack pegasi*)

  6. #16
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    This is a squirrely topic. Everyone has an inner life, but my impression is there is some distrust in them. Witness for example that persistent notion of a "loop". But, what are these inner worlds? How are they to be assessed? the other persistent notion is "healthy", but what's that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Anyone else get the *feeling* this is a "wrong" topic somehow?

    Would you agree the qualification of ‘conscious’ vs. ‘unconscious’ could be a useful means of assessment* for ‘health’ where ‘inner worlds’ are concerned? That so long as a person maintains a level of awareness about balance: there constant assessments going on in the external world (where people are constantly either agreeing or disagreeing on a thing and conclusions are being made) and constant assessments going on in the internal world (where the subject is forming its own conclusions)- and these rub against each other as the subject interacts with the object. When a person relies too heavily on one or the other, the contrary position (either the external assessments or the internal assessments) gets mistaken within the praxis of that person’s consciousness as being part of the assessment they are leaning on because the rubbing of these two forces against each other never really goes away- the person simply *believes* the other/contrary influence is not playing a role [so in esse: a person can either mistake their internal assessment as ‘objective’ or they mistake an external assessment as ‘subjective’…..thereby losing control, somewhat, over that which rightly belongs in the ‘subjective assessments’ domain]. It seems to me that it’s reasonable to consider optimum awareness of this balance as ‘healthy’, because it simultaneously affords the subject most control over their own opinions while allowing them to take the most responsibility for how their decisions and opinions contribute to an external environment which they must necessarily share.

    Is there some ‘wrongness’ in that^? Or does the wrongness (of which you speak) pertain more to an ‘external assessment’ which tries to somehow establish the ‘internal assessment’ as a thing of beauty**? Or maybe the wrongness is in trying to externally assign how much ‘beauty’ internal assessments (aka: inner worlds) should have…..like it cheapens it somehow?

    [edit:] As far as just describing it, I'd go with what @cascadeco wrote, it just *is*. It's the standpoint from which I interpret the external world.



    *funny aside: I first typed “assment”, which- if only in my inner world- is a kinda funny slip [i.e. “…could be a useful means of assholery…”].

    **thereby making it an ‘external assment’?
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  7. #17
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The outer world is just there. In principle it is the same for everybody. (In practice, it's not, but the engine for attending to and managing the outer world is some acceptance that we can compare experiences with each other and with some baseline.) So in principle we know how to deal.

    But inner worlds...?
    In its most basic form, I don't think the inner world is much different - when I first thought of it, before reading the quote above, I was thinking, 'Well, it just IS'. So I think the inner world 'is just there' just as much as the outer world 'is just there'. Only difference is obviously that everyone can view the external world, and can't view/experience another persons' inner world. But both ARE - they're things that exist, our inner world is just as much of a reality for each of us individually as the external is around us.

    As for my inner world, I really don't know what aspect to talk about. As I'm viewing the external world around me, and interacting with external things, I have a constant internal element/monologue that's always running simultaneously - perceiving, thinking, feeling, reacting, deciding, musing. This feels kind of obvious, like.. doesn't everyone have this? It's just the element of WHAT one is musing about or feeling or analyzing or noticing or focusing on (or not noticing/focusing on, as the case may be) that will differ from one to the next.

    I don't find my internal world particularly solid; at least, I don't think it is. I don't think I have many hard and fast edges, even though at the same time I think I'm pretty opinionated. I FEEL quite morphy and floaty, even though I think I can come across quite opposite sometimes. I've always viewed my life and thoughts / life itself as flowing, and often wish I was better able to just set hard and fast rules around things. Things are pretty situational for me. I also have various internal 'modes' - musing/floaty mode, where I'm not thinking of much of anything specifically, but just letting things sift around within me (possibly the most common mode.. I often feel I'm not thinking/doing much of anything, at least ACTIVELY), analysis mode (very ACTIVE thinking and assessing of things), observation mode, alarmed/something-has-set-me-off mode (distraction, anxiety, scattered thoughts, mostly a disturbed feeling that encompasses me and precludes much active ability at thought), purely feeling & reveling in a particular moment..

    Everytime I write things like this, part of me assumes it's the same for everyone...probably just certain 'modes' occur for some people more than others.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Wasn't there a thread where people described their inner worlds or something like that? I can't find it, but I think it exists...

    It's kinda hard to pin them down using the rules of architecture and geography. The mind doesn't build foundations with bricks, but with concepts.
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  9. #19
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    yes.

    and what's this *feeling* you speak of? can you avoid references to beauty or feelings or poetry when describing your inner world? (talk of assessing and measuring goes hand-in-hand with discussions of symmetry and science. which seems to make as much sense as the poetic comparisons.)
    My intuition is to say IT'S THE AUTHENTICITY ALARUMS, BATMAN!!!!! And theory tells me there's probably some self-prez anxiety in there too. And there's also some concern that I simply don't know enough to make some timeless value judgment about the inner world. I don't have what I feel to be immediately competent conscious access to that kind of decision. Given time and reflection, I'd come up with something, but normally I'd be relegating that stuff to less conscious realms. Presumably people with inner judgment more conscious will have more ready access to such value judgments. I wonder if they might not more easily characterise the inner worlds too. As with, say, @Saturned's description.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  10. #20
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    I would like to add a fire-breathing cloud dragon to my inner realm, please. :3

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