[ISFJ] Words of an ISFJ ?

[FDG]

Wow, you are overreacting.

 

[Lightning_Rider]

ISFJs feel empathy. I mean, I do.

Not all ISFJ's are alike however, just like not all people of other types are alike.

 

[Saslou]

I think you are mega sensitive.

She is oblivious, as you say. Because if you point it out to her, she doesn't understand what you're talking about. So I don't insist, and I'm too crushed to insist.
She's not 100% J, she has some P (30-40%), but her mental structure is SJ, mainly.

She doesn't feel empathy. I told her my father had died (we hadn't seen each other in around 9 years) and she had known him. I saw her trying to fake a serious facial expression that would fit, and then proceeded to the I'm sorry thing, with no real appropriate emotion to it. After I explained the whole thing to her, she said: "I can't imagine how I would feel if that happened to my parents."

1- Tell your friend how you feel .. She isn't a mindreader.
2 - She doesn't feel empathy because she didn't act appropriately when telling her your father passed away .. Or maybe she felt very awkward and even slightly shocked as she had known him.
3 - Stop speculating.

 

[KLessard]

I think you are mega sensitive.

That's very NF, by the way. We feel things soulfully, and care very deeply. I can't help it. It's all right, I understand what's happening inside her, and I'm ok about it, but I could't help feeling very sad at the moment it happened. (I had made a very long trip Québec - Nova Scotia to see her and she didn't cooperate much to make it worthwhile.)

 

[KLessard]

Wow, you are overreacting.

Probably. I know she wouldn't hurt me on purpose. I'm just frustrated at myself for trying to reach out to her in an N way for many years (my efforts would have created a very meaningful friendship with another N - I've seen it happen), but for this S, it's a language she doesn't understand. I'm trying to spell it out in a way she will understand with that letter (I hope she will).

 

[Snow Turtle]

All I can think of is becareful of inadvertedly harming your relationships due to MBTI understanding. Otherwise I can sympathise or empathise with her on the issue of not knowing how to react to someone telling you that a loved one has passed away. Unless a person has specifically felt a similar situation in their lives, empathy is more likely to be projection than the real thing itself. I don't bother trying to understand my friend when she talks about someone close to her that commits suicide, because any speculation I can come up with will not be sufficient to match the pain that the other person experiences.

 

[KLessard]

All I can think of is becareful of inadvertedly harming your relationships due to MBTI understanding.

I'm aware of that, thank you.

Also, I don't resent her at all for not empathizing about my father's death. I just feel it illustrated her difficulty with empathy.

 

[Lambchop]

Yes, I would like to befriend her in a deeper way. I've tried my best at it, but since I'm not on her list of priorities (family, close friends and her community) - and since we live in different provinces, I'm just rarely within reach of her S. For N types, this is not a problem, but for Sensitives, it is.
She is NOT T at all, she is really ISFJ. She's very kind and sweet, but in this very polite way. It's not deep and honest in the NF way. She is sympathetic, not empathetic. Big difference.

I don't understand, kind and sweet is only deep and honest in the NF way? I just don't find that to be true. I'm an ISFJ and I'm a very deep and honest person. Maybe she's just overwhelmed or overloaded (as we frequently are) and right now doesn't have the emotional energy or ability to be there for you in the way you want/need her to be?

 

[Giggly]

Probably. I know she wouldn't hurt me on purpose. I'm just frustrated at myself for trying to reach out to her in an N way for many years (my efforts would have created a very meaningful friendship with another N - I've seen it happen), but for this S, it's a language she doesn't understand. I'm trying to spell it out in a way she will understand with that letter (I hope she will).

This sounds like a friend zone scenario. Have you ever heard of the friend zone? It's common. I'm pretty sure there are N's who put other N's in the friend zone all the time. It's not just something S's do. And I'm pretty sure there are S's who get friend zoned too.

 

[KLessard]

I don't understand, kind and sweet is only deep and honest in the NF way?

I'm talking about this person in particular. I keep getting this impression that her kindness is superficial and that she has two faces, because when I'm in front of her, she's sweet and kind, but when she has her back turned, she forgets her word and acts in a way that seems very contrary to the kindness she was showing me when she was talking to me. Hence the impression that it's not honest.
But NFs and SJs have very different motivations, and I once read in Keirsey's work that NFs will often perceive SJs as superficial. You know... the idea of saving appearances and being polite. For NFs, being polite can mean that you're hiding your real emotions and thoughts.
For me, being frank is only being respectful to the person I'm speaking to.

I find all of your comments here very defensive, as if I was being really mean and all. I'm not mad at her anymore and doing my best to understand her and cooperate. I am not sending out a single accusation in the letter I wrote to her.

 

[KLessard]

This sounds like a friend zone scenario. Have you ever heard of the friend zone? It's common. I'm pretty sure there are N's who put other N's in the friend zone all the time. It's not just something S's do. And I'm pretty sure there are S's who get friend zoned too.

This is the friend zone. I'm not looking for anything else than friendship.

 

[Giggly]

oh ok. One possibility is maybe she only gets that close to someone she is romantic with.

 

[Snow Turtle]

I'm talking about this person in particular. I keep getting this impression that her kindness is superficial and that she has two faces, because when I'm in front of her, she's sweet and kind, but when she has her back turned, she forgets her word and acts in a way that seems very contrary to the kindness she was showing me when she was talking to me. Hence the impression that it's not honest.
But NFs and SJs have very different motivations, and I once read in Keirsey's work that NFs will often perceive SJs as superficial. You know... the idea of saving appearances and being polite. For NFs, being polite can mean that you're hiding your real emotions and thoughts.
For me, being frank is only being respectful to the person I'm speaking to.

I find all of your comments here very defensive, as if I was being really mean and all. I'm not mad at her anymore and doing my best to understand her and cooperate. I am not sending out a single accusation in the letter I wrote to her.

The reason I'm defensive isn't because you are 'mean' towards your friend. It's because you are claiming that her behaviour is because she's an SJ, and therefore it's technically talking about us as well. I understand that the books claim X and Y about SJs, but it has never really resonated with me, and for lambchop so it doesn't really make sense to make such a generalisation if there is virtually no element of truth in it. It's down to individual differences/healthy behaviour rather than being an SJ. For example: That comment about the frankness. I also believe that frankness is a much more honest and respectful approach than being polite when there are real problems. I'm sure this is true for the other ISFJ posters here, from what I've seen.

 

[incubustribute]

Yes, I would like to befriend her in a deeper way. I've tried my best at it, but since I'm not on her list of priorities (family, close friends and her community) - and since we live in different provinces, I'm just rarely within reach of her S. For N types, this is not a problem, but for Sensitives, it is.
She is NOT T at all, she is really ISFJ. She's very kind and sweet, but in this very polite way. It's not deep and honest in the NF way. She is sympathetic, not empathetic. Big difference.

T's can also be very kind and sweet, especially if they deem that it is appropriate to do so. It's just not their natural mode. Kind and sweet in a polite way sounds very ISTJ, and that's the exact vibe I got from your original description.

 

[KLessard]

T's can also be very kind and sweet, especially if they deem that it is appropriate to do so. It's just not their natural mode. Kind and sweet in a polite way sounds very ISTJ, and that's the exact vibe I got from your original description.

Well, if I say she's very affectionate and kind in the way it hurts (I don't think anybody has ever been as kind to me as this person, and I suppose this is the reason she means so much to me).

 

[KLessard]

That comment about the frankness. I also believe that frankness is a much more honest and respectful approach than being polite when there are real problems. I'm sure this is true for the other ISFJ posters here, from what I've seen.

I'm glad to hear that.
One thing I need mention: I contacted her cousin who knows her very well and shared my impressions with him. He said this about her: "She just doesn't have the "you know whats" to say it like it is." Like she hates confrontation or frankness or anything of the sort, because it hurts her (she seems to interpret frankness as the opposite of kindness). I noticed that when I start to have a frank tone with her (for me, this is just honesty and a wish to make things right), her face changes and she gets nervous. I actually apologized to her for this in my letter.

 

[Athenian200]

It sounds to me like she just didn't realize that you took this stuff so seriously that it ruined your day. I don't think she's understanding what you're feeling, exactly.

I personally think being polite is a superior approach to being blunt in most situations. Bluntness is the mark of the less refined people. I would at least give her credit for being sensitive in terms of refinement.

 

[KLessard]

oh ok. One possibility is maybe she only gets that close to someone she is romantic with.

For Idealists, friendship has a very special meaning. Nfs will often value friendship more than romantic relationships.

But her cousin told me she is a very private person and it takes a very long time before she feels ready to open up (soulfully and all). For an idealist, being soulful is daily bread. We are retarded when it comes to small talk.
What makes me hopeful, though, is that she did open up to me a few times, and that allowed me to connect with her soul-to-soul. That's what I long for. I will be patient and respectful of her hesitation if it this is what it takes.

 

[Giggly]

For Idealists, friendship has a very special meaning. Nfs will often value friendship more than romantic relationships.

But her cousin told me she is a very private person and it takes a very long time before she feels ready to open up (soulfully and all). For an idealist, being soulful is daily bread. We are retarded when it comes to small talk.
What makes me hopeful, though, is that she did open up to me a few times, and that allowed me to connect with her soul-to-soul. That's what I long for. I will be patient and respectful of her hesitation if it this is what it takes.

Cool. Being patient and respectful sounds like a good idea.

How did the letter go over?

 

[KLessard]

Cool. Being patient and respectful sounds like a good idea.

How did the letter go over?

Don't know. She tends not to answer or keep her word about keeping in touch because she's too busy or something (her "to do" lists, and all). So I don't know if she'll take the time to answer. I hope she will. I pointed that to her when I met her and she laughed saying "I'm so bad." I didn't like that because I was hurt about it.

But the last time I wrote to her and was so honest and opened about my emotions, she sent me a very long letter where she opened up as well. We'll see.