[Traditional Enneagram] Wimpiest Enneatype

[garbage]

I think you're taking this thread too a little seriously

I don't think I am. The subject is out there; we may as well talk about it however we see fit. All I'm trying to do is get us all to think about what "wimpiness" actually means.

I'll also say that I think some views here in this thread been expressed with sincerity and that, if so, they'd be concerning--if they affected my daily life. In other words, if they're serious, they're wrongheaded.

 

[SilkRoad]

9, 4, and phobic 6 are the most likely candidates (and not necessarily in that order or anything.)

I am a phobic 6 who is mostly chilled and fairly self-assured (well, on the outside...racing thoughts/low-to-high-level anxiety inside), punctuated by wimpy moments and aggressive moments.

 

[Thunderbringer]

I'm gonna chime in for the second and final time with the notion that strong-arming other people is weak and pathetic, too. It's not genuine inner-directed strength, at least; it's another strategy that involves not properly facing up to reality or oneself.

I regard bullheaded people as extremely wimpy and pathetic.

--

The stereotypical counterphobic 6 isn't 'strong' or 'brave'; he's just paranoid and gains security by outwardly questioning everything. That's not exactly true bravery, either.

100% agree with the bolded. Eights and Ones are just as "weak and pathetic" as the other types even if they seem as though they're strong and reliable.

 

[Vilku]

100% agree with the bolded. Eights and Ones are just as "weak and pathetic" as the other types even if they seem as though they're strong and reliable.

yep, seeming and being are two different things.

in such regards, 9s are probably the most spineful for standing their peace no matter what.

i do nothing if someone hits me, but thats cause i dont see a point in doing anything, 9 does same to conserve peace, and if stron 1 wing, might even choose to remove the person from this realm as to prevent it from happening to others. (usually i choose so for the other persons life is anyways not worth a single attention, and probably the reason they attack me.. since proceeding into an action wouldnt change anything, the damage is done.)

EDIT:
and im far too intuitive to even notice the attack until its done.. (ughf, expecting others to have morals when they really dont <.<)
just makes me double blind, or triple as a 4w3 i couldnt care less of people who intentionally fail their lives by alcohol or egoisticness.

 

[Santosha]

When i think of wimpy i think of physically weak. Excessive cerebralism can give way to physical neglect. With these considerations, and the fact that no one has yet picked on e5 .. I think I will have to vote 5's as being the wimpiest type, generally speaking.

 

[KDude]

i do nothing if someone hits me, but thats cause i dont see a point in doing anything, 9 does same to conserve peace, and if stron 1 wing, might even choose to remove the person from this realm as to prevent it from happening to others. (usually i choose so for the other persons life is anyways not worth a single attention, and probably the reason they attack me.. since proceeding into an action wouldnt change anything, the damage is done.)
.

Gotta do something at least. Just put your hands up and defend yourself. The "damage is done", but the damage can always get worse.

 

[Elfboy]

100% agree with the bolded. Eights and Ones are just as "weak and pathetic" as the other types even if they seem as though they're strong and reliable.

clearly we disagree on the definitions of both weak and pathetic

 

[Thunderbringer]

clearly we disagree on the definitions of both weak and pathetic

Your personal definitions of certain things are just heavily biased.

 

[Elfboy]

yep, seeming and being are two different things.
in such regards, 9s are probably the most spineful for standing their peace no matter what.

...no. sometimes you need to make peace. I'm not suggesting you turn into some aggressive macho thug or anything but 24/7 peace 52 weeks out of the year is impossible. you have to address issues and conflict in order for them to be resolved, and sometimes it's messy.

i do nothing if someone hits me, but thats cause i dont see a point in doing anything, 9 does same to conserve peace, and if stron 1 wing, might even choose to remove the person from this realm as to prevent it from happening to others. (usually i choose so for the other persons life is anyways not worth a single attention, and probably the reason they attack me.. since proceeding into an action wouldnt change anything, the damage is done.)

you don't see the point in
- defending yourself?
- making it clear that there are punishments for attacking you so as to prevent future attacks?
- teaching the other person a lesson so he doesn't do the same to others? (seriously, this does teach most of them a lesson. proverbs says to ride a fool with a rod on his back)
- lessening the chance of getting seriously injured
apathy and self forgetting =/= strength. you are not a background flower, you are a person with rights (among them defending yourself) and importance in this world. inaction is not going to make the world a better place, either for yourself or for others

 

[Elfboy]

Your personal definitions of certain things are just heavily biased.

from Merriam Webster:

wimp: a weak, cowardly, or ineffectual person

I don't see how a typical 8 or 1 would fit this definition at all. if I were biased, I wouldn't have pegged my own type as wimpy (though I'm curious as to how you believe they would)

 

[KDude]

clearly we disagree on the definitions of both weak and pathetic

I'd be more intimidated by a 1 than 8. They seem pretty grim. And they're everything I'm not. A few 8s I knew were more attention hungry, playing leader, but they could be checked. A couple of friends like this always had the same type of response. If you said something, maybe they'd call you a bitch, but then they would stop. Never got in fights with any of them (In my head though, that was also a relief). Not to say all 8s are like this, but I think the behavior is more about their ego, not violence. And they don't immediately think of other people's space, which can cause problems or scare people.

 

[Thunderbringer]

from Merriam Webster:


I don't see how a typical 8 or 1 would fit this definition at all. if I were biased, I wouldn't have pegged my own type as wimpy (though I'm curious as to how you believe they would)

You're biased towards the entirety of power. You're pretty much the cheerleader for Type 8's and worship and praise the ground they walk on. 8's are cowardly because they live their life not acknowledging their feelings and setting up a defensive barrier as well as attacking people or domineering over them because they're afraid of being hurt by others or being controlled by others. That honestly seems like something a weak person would do. 1's are weak because they rely too much on their superego to tell them how to live their life and feel as though they're superior to others, morally. They're unable to own up to their own mistakes and will do anything to prove to others that their way and beliefs are right in any situation instead of being strong enough to acknowledge their mistakes and improving themselves.

 

[The Ü™]

In theory, 6s, since their vice is cowardice.

In practice, 4w3s.

 

[Elfboy]

I'd be more intimidated by a 1 than 8. They seem pretty grim. And they're everything I'm not. A few 8s I knew were more attention hungry, playing leader, but they could be checked. A couple of friends like this always had the same type of response. If you said something, maybe they'd call you a bitch, but then they would stop. Never got in fights with any of them (In my head though, that was also a relief). Not to say all 8s are like this, but I think the behavior is more about their ego, not violence. And they don't immediately think of other people's space, which can cause problems or scare people.

it's about control, not ego. 8s can have noticeable egotistical bravado (at least, much more so than the 1 lol) but it's not their main focus. they want to call the shots in some areas of their lives.

the type I'm most intimidated by is (ironically) another 7w8 (but an Se dom 7w8). 8s, even 8w7s aren't likely to attack you without some sort of provocation. they might be rude, have a general vibe of "fuck you" and try to ruffle your feathers a little, but they generally respect when you stand up for yourself and stop doing it (actually, this is usually their aim in the first place. 8s a very much into tough love). a 7w8 on the other hand who lacks a moral compass or sense of boundaries can easily just think "I want to attack him, I'm bored and it looks fun". at their worst, 7w8s are like the Comedian from Watchmen
Edit: I guess my main point was that you know where you stand with an 8 (who isn't stress 5 plotting revenge on you) with 7w8s, you don't. we can be all friendly and then "surprise attack"

 

[garbage]

I don't see how a typical 8 or 1 would fit this definition at all.

Your definition of 'wimpy' differs from ours in that you're looking for outward displays of wimpiness, weakness, and cowardice; we're looking at the core of the person, their internal psychological makeup.

Using the latter definition, 'inward' wimpiness/cowardice may manifest as outward brashness and bullying. Moreover, I would note that the core of the Enneagram is that the types point to coping mechanisms (regarded by some to be irrational strategies for obtaining happiness) that are intended to be overcome. I think that anyone who is unwilling to do so--to face themselves--is a coward.

I hope that explains my (our?) perspective.

Both 'outward' and 'inward' wimpiness are fine subjects. Which do you want to talk about?

 

[KDude]

7w8s are like the Comedian from Watchmen

I don't know. Maybe some, but he's really just a sociopath. Didn't he shoot his wife or unborn baby? Probably not a good example of anything type related.

 

[Elfboy]

You're biased towards the entirety of power. You're pretty much the cheerleader for Type 8's and worship and praise the ground they walk on. 8's are cowardly because they live their life not acknowledging their feelings and setting up a defensive barrier as well as attacking people or domineering over them because they're afraid of being hurt by others or being controlled by others. That honestly seems like something a weak person would do. 1's are weak because they rely too much on their superego to tell them how to live their life and feel as though they're superior to others, morally. They're unable to own up to their own mistakes and will do anything to prove to others that their way and beliefs are right in any situation instead of being strong enough to acknowledge their mistakes and improving themselves.

I'm well aware of the flaws of both 1s and 8s, but not every flaw can be classified as wimpy. wimpy means you lack power (physical, psychological, mental etc) to get done what you want to and thus are tossed around by the tides of life. the opposite of a wimpy person is someone who wills for something to happen in the world and it gets done. essentially, wimpy-ness boils down to effectiveness and 8s and 1s don't tend to lack in that department.
PS: taking this into consideration, I'm taking 3s off the wimpy list. in theory, they are wimpy because they rely on the support and "that a boy's" of others, but in practice they are seldom in short supply of these and get a lot done in the world. actually, in practice, they might be the least wimpy type

 

[Elfboy]

I don't know. Maybe some, but he's really just a sociopath. Didn't he shoot his wife or unborn baby? Probably not a good example of anything type related.

8s and 7w8s are more prone to sociopathy than other types and when they become extremely fixated this emerges (so I believe it is type related).

 

[Elfboy]

Your definition of 'wimpy' differs from ours in that you're looking for outward displays of wimpiness, weakness, and cowardice; we're looking at the core of the person, their internal psychological makeup.
Using the latter definition, 'inward' wimpiness/cowardice may manifest as outward brashness and bullying. Moreover, I would note that the core of the Enneagram is that the types point to coping mechanisms (regarded by some to be irrational strategies for obtaining happiness) that are intended to be overcome. I think that anyone who is unwilling to do so--to face themselves--is a coward.

agreed, by virtue of even having an enneagram type, everyone has natural "internal wimpiness" to deal with (though I would argue to varying degrees. inwardly for instance, I would say the image/heart triad is the wimpiest, even though externally 3s are among the least if not the least wimpy). that's just it though, since every type is inwardly wimpy, it kills the conversation. it's boring to just say "everyone is wimpy in their own way". there's no controversy or room for discussion. if we focus on external wimpy-ness, there is.

I hope that explains my (our?) perspective.
Both 'outward' and 'inward' wimpiness are fine subjects. Which do you want to talk about?

external, for the reasons given above

EDIT: thank you for bringing up this distinction, I took for granted that everyone else hadn't made it and should have communicated it more clearly

 

[Cloud of Thunder]

I would argue that 1's, 3's, 5's, and 8's are actually the strongest or least wimpy of the circle. Who cares what their inner motivations are? They get a lot done in the world and often have much to look back on as proof of their competence (beside the 8, the aforementioned types form the Competent triad). I can't say the same for 9's and most especially for 4's.