Will you take the COVID vaccine in 2021?

[Totenkindly]

I never wanted my Brian in the first place. He's better off somewhere else.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

 

[Mole]

I have been vaccinated all my long life, and it has saved me from measles, whooping cough, polio, tuberculosis, and influenza. And next to public hygiene vaccination is our most sucessful initiative in public health. Yet we have organised anti-vaccers spreading disease particularly to children in poor countries. And there is radical Islam violently opposed to Western vaccination.

At home the anti-vaccers are informed by the popular belief system called the New Age.

Fortunately I will be one of the first to be offered the vaccine, and I will grab it with both hands.

 

[Maou]

No, for the same reason I don't take the flu vaccine. Besides, I already have had covid. Old people should get it though, as well as people with complications.

 

[Red Memories]

I never wanted my Brian in the first place. He's better off somewhere else.

lmao I accidentally mistype brain as brian so my friend had a gag that my brain is its own entity named Brian who never cooperates with me.

 

[Mole]

It is now becoming apparent the virus has long term effects on our hearts, kidneys, lungs, brains, and digestion. The mass denial in the USA mirrors the denial of global warming, and seems to me like a group psychosis, and out of touch with reality.

The technique of reality denial in the USA is to politicise everything, so there are no more facts, even medical facts, there are only political opinions. And the best lack all conviction, and the worst are full of passionate intensity.

 

[Vendrah]

It is now becoming apparent the virus has long term effects on our hearts, kidneys, lungs, brains, and digestion. The mass denial in the USA mirrors the denial of global warming, and seems to me like a group psychosis, and out of touch with reality.

The technique of reality denial in the USA is to politicise everything, so there are no more facts, even medical facts, there are only political opinions. And the best lack all conviction, and the worst are full of passionate intensity.

The funny thing is that although you speak in a way that at first seems a lot detached from reality and although you might have your philosophical ideas that seems to be coming from an alternative dimension, you are more in touch with reality and facts than most of them (this is actually a compliment to you).

 

[FemMecha]

It is now becoming apparent the virus has long term effects on our hearts, kidneys, lungs, brains, and digestion. The mass denial in the USA mirrors the denial of global warming, and seems to me like a group psychosis, and out of touch with reality.

The technique of reality denial in the USA is to politicise everything, so there are no more facts, even medical facts, there are only political opinions. And the best lack all conviction, and the worst are full of passionate intensity.

Seconded. You hit the proverbial nail on the head.

To answer the OP. I plan to get the vaccine, but will read some science articles first, get a sense of who developed the vaccine, and I will probably not try to be first in line, and will likely not have first access anyway. When something is new, I tend to observe a little first, but I also trust science way more than the media or politicians. I trust the scientific process, and even though there are political issues influencing science, it is still the best source of reason for humanity.

The Scientific Method produces truth values on a much higher level than society in general considers proof. When scientists express uncertainty, it is because an idea has not been thoroughly vetted through the scientific process, peer review, and the most rigorous of processes. They still often have orders of magnitude more "proof" than most people need to feel they know a certainty. Society sees this type of responsible uncertainty next to politician's certitude of blatant falsehoods, and then compare the two. Society has become completely confused about how to establish a truth value and think it all runs rampant and is just opinion. A scientist's uncertainty is orders of magnitude more verified than a politician's certitude.

 

[Mole]

The funny thing is that although you speak in a way that at first seems a lot detached from reality and although you might have your philosophical ideas that seems to be coming from an alternative dimension, you are more in touch with reality and facts than most of them (this is actually a compliment to you).

Thank you Vendrah for the compliment, and yes, when the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do?

And speaking in my own voice, in anther dimension, gives me somewhere to stand in a changing swirling world.

 

[Mole]

Seconded. You hit the proverbial nail on the head.

To answer the OP. I plan to get the vaccine, but will read some science articles first, get a sense of who developed the vaccine, and I will probably not try to be first in line, and will likely not have first access anyway. When something is new, I tend to observe a little first, but I also trust science way more than the media or politicians. I trust the scientific process, and even though there are political issues influencing science, it is still the best source of reason for humanity.

The Scientific Method produces truth values on a much higher level than society in general considers proof. When scientists express uncertainty, it is because an idea has not been thoroughly vetted through the scientific process, peer review, and the most rigorous of processes. They still often have orders of magnitude more "proof" than most people need to feel they know a certainty. Society sees this type of responsible uncertainty next to politician's certitude of blatant falsehoods, and then compare the two. Society has become completely confused about how to establish a truth value and think it all runs rampant and is just opinion. A scientist's uncertainty is orders of magnitude more verified than a politician's certitude.

Yes, religions tend to offer believers certainty, while science offers statistics. For example, the whole of our most accurate science is quantum mechanics based on statistics. And as we now know quantum mechanics is accurate to ten decimal places, which is about as close to certainty as we get.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I am afraid that this story doesn't revolve around "What I want". The thing is that you need at least 80% of people to take the vaccine in order to make a full social effect. In other words if less or much less people than that in certain areas take it that is basically as if the vaccine isn't really invented. What means that the drama will continue for a long time as well as the death count and economic mess. Which will probably only get worse with time as people run out of savings and protection measures gets removed completely. Therefore if you don't want mess and lockdowns to continue for a long time you will just have to take one for the team. Since there just don't seem to be any meaningful alternatives to that.




Plus I suppose we can add this into the mix.

Boris Johnson self-isolates after contact tests positive for coronavirus


In other words if COVID really is fundamentally like flu that means you can get it over and over again. Especially since most diseases work like that. What means that herd immunity is at best herd resistance and the problem will not solve itself out on it's own. Since diseases don't really work like that for the most part.

 

[J. Starke]

I will. But most boomers around me are too skeptical about it. And they are the group that needs it the most!

 

[noname3788]

It won't be a high priority for me, but given the chance, I'll take it. I don't see any valid reason to distrust vaccines, but I'm also not a part of any vulnerable groups, so I think other people need it way more than I do.

 

[Vendrah]

Thank you Vendrah for the compliment, and yes, when the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do?

I have a tendency to change my mind too, but not always, I admit.

I am afraid that this story doesn't revolve around "What I want". The thing is that you need at least 80% of people to take the vaccine in order to make a full social effect. In other words if less or much less people than that in certain areas take it that is basically as if the vaccine isn't really invented. What means that the drama will continue for a long time as well as the death count and economic mess. Which will probably only get worse with time as people run out of savings and protection measures gets removed completely. Therefore if you don't want mess and lockdowns to continue for a long time you will just have to take one for the team. Since there just don't seem to be any meaningful alternatives to that.

I don't get it.
Once I get the vaccine, I will be at least in theory immune. It means that even if I catch from the others who did not get the vaccine, I will be immune to them.

I know it is selfish from my part to not think about the others, but my very few observations with my discreet attempts to change people minds away from the Whatsapp conspiracy messages and all did not have much effect, which means that I basically can't convince much people, if any, to take the vaccine once their whatsapp group convinced them that the vaccines are a chinese masterplan to secretly kill people in the name of communism. But, you know, these people who are not taking the vaccine are not going to quarantine forever either.

At the beginning of the vaccine news, more than 90% of Brazillians were willing to take the vaccine. Now that dropped to 60% and something because the whatsapp messages are doing their work against the vaccines - the slogan is basically more Chloroquine, less vaccine.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I have a tendency to change my mind too, but not always, I admit.



I don't get it.
Once I get the vaccine, I will be at least in theory immune. It means that even if I catch from the others who did not get the vaccine, I will be immune to them.

I know it is selfish from my part to not think about the others, but my very few observations with my discreet attempts to change people minds away from the Whatsapp conspiracy messages and all did not have much effect, which means that I basically can't convince much people, if any, to take the vaccine once their whatsapp group convinced them that the vaccines are a chinese masterplan to secretly kill people in the name of communism. But, you know, these people who are not taking the vaccine are not going to quarantine forever either.

At the beginning of the vaccine news, more than 90% of Brazillians were willing to take the vaccine. Now that dropped to 60% and something because the whatsapp messages are doing their work against the vaccines - the slogan is basically more Chloroquine, less vaccine.

As I said this isn't about "I". If half of some x country or region doesn't take the vaccine that half of the population will continue to live as the vaccine isn't invented. What will evidently cause drama and economic problems. Since vaccine only gives desired socio-economic result if everyone or almost everyone takes it. Plus to make things worse it seems that people will need to take a number of shoots through time, since one dosage will not do the job permanently. What isn't the new concept regarding the vaccines. Therefore if this turns out to be true it will happen that the resistance of those who took it will wear off, while the other half will make sure that the virus stays around (since they will be hosts). What basically means that this mess probably can't be solved if people don't get massively involved, especially if you don't want ultra long and hard lockdowns. Therefore by this logic countries that don't do this will see the economic downfall and weakening of their global influence. Due to lowered competitiveness, negative media coverage and possibly travel bans.


So yeah, inventing the decent vaccine is perhaps the smaller part in this whole problem. Since making sure that enough people take it could be "the main show" in many countries.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Yes, if tests indicate it is safe. Give me moar autism.

I'm not a germaphobic person at all (I'm more of a slob desperately trying to reform), but even I take this thing seriously. I was honestly rolling my eyes when the first news about it came out in China, because I'm used to the media blowing this kind of stuff out of proportion (like SARS and swine flu).

 

[Stigmata]

If it is safe and effective, then yes.

 

[Red Herring]

I was honestly rolling my eyes when the first news about it came out in China, because I'm used to the media blowing this kind of stuff out of proportion (like SARS and swine flu).

Well, you never know how these things will develop. My sister is a virologist and she was vey worried about swine flue at the time. Christian Drosden, the guy who developed the PCR test for Covid-19 used all over the world, was basically the "discoverer" of the first SARS virus and is now considered Mr Corona as Germany's foremost expert on corona viruses is also frequently attacked by those not taking the current pandemic very seriously for ringing the alarm on SARS 1 and swine flu. Fortunately those were easier to contain beause they were more aggressive. You never know where new emerging viruses will go and I think taking them seriously should be the default from an epidemiological perspective (even though public policywise it might lead to fatigue)

It wasn't so much the media blowing things out of proportions as serious experts being alarmed. It could have gone either way and the next serious pandemic is sure to come earlier or later.

 

[Red Herring]

Well, it seems that the Moderna vaccine uses the same approach as the BioNTech one and is just as effective but is superior in one important regard: it is less temperature sensitive and therefor easier to store and transport. Good news indeed.

 

[Vendrah]

As I said this isn't about "I". If half of some x country or region doesn't take the vaccine that half of the population will continue to live as the vaccine isn't invented. What will evidently cause drama and economic problems. Since vaccine only gives desired socio-economic result if everyone or almost everyone takes it. Plus to make things worse it seems that people will need to take a number of shoots through time, since one dosage will not do the job permanently. What isn't the new concept regarding the vaccines. Therefore if this turns out to be true it will happen that the resistance of those who took it will wear off, while the other half will make sure that the virus stays around (since they will be hosts). What basically means that this mess probably can't be solved if people don't get massively involved, especially if you don't want ultra long and hard lockdowns. Therefore by this logic countries that don't do this will see the economic downfall and weakening of their global influence. Due to lowered competitiveness, negative media coverage and possibly travel bans.


So yeah, inventing the decent vaccine is perhaps the smaller part in this whole problem. Since making sure that enough people take it could be "the main show" in many countries.

But you are assuming that people that are not taking the vaccine are going to do lockdowns forever, which is something very unlikely to happen, antivax either will or already had dropped lockdown.