[INTJ] What does an unhealthy INTJ look like?

[highlander]

Study the lifestyles and behaviors of some of the prominent serial killers, and match their profiles to Myers-Briggs. The INTJ with an unhealthy Fi is a great candidate.

Do you have any examples? If not facts - then some kind of evidence that is at least somewhat compelling? Your statements may be true but I don't see enough evidence to support what you are saying.

INTJs can never be charming? I, for one, am extremely introverted, but if I absolutely care to, I can adopt an extroverted demeanor and pass off as an ENTJ or ENTP.

Description of Ted Bundy's social life during his teenage years[1]:

Good point. However, he picked up and killed 30 women. There is also this:

"He lied to women in order to pick them up using his fake splints and casts or when he needed help loading his sailboat. Picking up women also fits the other criteria of charming. Those who knew Ted stated the he was indeed charming. You would have to charming to some extent in order to pick up over thirty women. Another criteria Ted met was,consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations. Bundy's odd jobs and reports from employers hold this to be true. The final criteria Bundy meets for antisocial personality disorder is,Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another. Bundy most clearly sums this up when he is quoted as saying,What's one less person on the face of the earth anyway? Besides his antisocial personality disorder Bundy also shows signs of going through the seven phases of a serial killer. The aura or fantasy phase is the one phase I cannot find any evidence of Bundy going through. For this phase there is a withdraw from fantasy and Ted does not appear to do this anywhere. The trolling phase is when Ted would stalk and pick his victims. He went through this stage because the majority of his victims came from college campuses. Bundy was a master at the wooing phase. Most of the time his victims went with him voluntarily. The capture phase really cannot be applied to Bundy. Sometimes he was sudden about his crimes and sometimes he was not. Bundy always carried out the murders and he also kept body parts to preserve the high he got from the killings. This would be the totemic phase. Bundy went through depression phase because he was not able to quit."

Well, i could be wrong, but it seems unlikely that an INTJ, healthy or not, would be a master at the wooing phase. One would also think that fantasy would be part of it for an INTJ.

Perhaps not a field officer, but a position in law enforcement or the military. I would suspect that INTJs, like in most leadership positions, are overrepresented in police and military leadership. They are also probably overrepresented in police investigation and amongst FBI special investigative units. After all, the famous sleuth who would become the archetype for the criminal investigator, Sherlock Holmes, was himself an INTJ, albeit a fictional one. Also, serial killers often apply for police positions because of the intensity that comes with the job, which feeds them.

You are right I'm sure on the investigative roles appealing to INTJs and them being over-represented in leadership roles.

This is specious. Not only is that a collection of all traits serial killers may exhibit, but those traits are also tied strongly to emotion, and could be present in any unhealthy type. When we're discussing psychopaths, there is little purpose in comparing the definition of "rational" that "normal" people believe to be rational with the "rationale" of serial killers. No amount of reasoning will convince the average individual that murder for sheer pleasure is reasonable.

No, we must instead compare the general characteristics of the type; the functions that channel the behavior, and perhaps more importantly, the functions that are a natural mold for the typical profile of an organized serial killer or mass murderer.
1. Michaud and Aynesworth, The Only Living Witness, 64-66

I'm merely making the point that this statement is not correct: "The classical description of a psychopath is the INTJ: emotionally detached and coldly analytical." The characteristics I listed are those of a psychopath. They have nothing to do with type - that's the point.

 

[Lex Talionis]

Bah, forget it. One cannot convince the willfully ignorant.

 

[sgtmac_46]

What does an unhealthy INTJ look like?

Hitler

http://library.lawschool.cornell.ed...ons/Donovan/Hitler/upload/Hitler-Section1.pdf

I've heard a lot of folks erroneously claim Hitler isn't an INTJ..........but this 54 page psychological profile, created by the OSS with help from intimates of Hitler who defected illustrates an extremely troubled INTJ.

Not to say all INTJ's are Hitler, far from it. Hitler, however, exhibits all of the most extreme negative attributes of INTJ's taken beyond the extreme.

 

[highlander]

Bah, forget it. One cannot convince the willfully ignorant.

Oh, I can be convinced - With some evidence or at least a semblance of a compelling case.

You see I have wondered this - if INTJs are the type of individuals who are capable of or prone to do these things. I have not over time been able to gather any perspective, evidence, or examples to support it however.

It sounds like you have done some research or investigation on this. If you can explain your perspective in a way others can understand then we will be enlightened. In typology lingo, perhaps you may try using Te in support of the Ni to explain yourself.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Oh, I can be convinced - With some evidence or at least a semblance of a compelling case.

You see I have wondered this - if INTJs are the type of individuals who are capable of or prone to do these things. I have not over time been able to gather any perspective, evidence, or examples to support it however.

It sounds like you have done some research or investigation on this. If you can explain your perspective in a way others can understand then we will be enlightened. In typology lingo, perhaps you may try using Te in support of the Ni to explain yourself.

Ted Bundy is not likely an INTJ..........I see Ted as more of an E.

 

[Lex Talionis]

Hitler

http://library.lawschool.cornell.ed...ons/Donovan/Hitler/upload/Hitler-Section1.pdf

I've heard a lot of folks erroneously claim Hitler isn't an INTJ..........but this 54 page psychological profile, created by the OSS with help from intimates of Hitler who defected illustrates an extremely troubled INTJ.

Not to say all INTJ's are Hitler, far from it. Hitler, however, exhibits all of the most extreme negative attributes of INTJ's taken beyond the extreme.

Hitler was most definitely an INTJ. I too have seen threads where the less informed have claimed that Hitler was an INFP. How laughable. As if a movement as NTJ as National Socialism could be carried by an INFP, regardless of whether or not the other leaders within the movement were NTJs themselves. Read Mein Kampf and you will notice the NTJ logic immediately.

 

[highlander]

Hitler

http://library.lawschool.cornell.ed...ons/Donovan/Hitler/upload/Hitler-Section1.pdf

I've heard a lot of folks erroneously claim Hitler isn't an INTJ..........but this 54 page psychological profile, created by the OSS with help from intimates of Hitler who defected illustrates an extremely troubled INTJ.

Not to say all INTJ's are Hitler, far from it. Hitler, however, exhibits all of the most extreme negative attributes of INTJ's taken beyond the extreme.

Wow - This is a fascinating document.

Why do you think it points to INTJ? That is, there doesn't seem to be enough relevant information to deduce it or actually to deduce type at all. The part about paranoia and imposing his vision could be part of an INTJ persona but there are many characteristics that could point to other types - like the persuasiveness of ENFJ for example.

Much of the document speaks to characteristics of his personality that have nothing to do with type. It is an exceptional illustration of the complex forces that drive how a person becomes who they are.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Hitler was most definitely an INTJ. I too have seen threads where the less informed have claimed that Hitler was an INFP. How laughable. As if a movement as NTJ as National Socialism could be carried by an INFP, regardless of whether or not the other leaders within the movement were NTJs themselves. Read Mein Kampf and you will notice the NTJ logic immediately.

Exactly. Hitler's INTJ personality came out quite well when he was under stress. His psychosomatic physical ailments, his difficulty in making emotional connections, his extreme concern with will-power.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Hitler was most definitely an INTJ. I too have seen threads where the less informed have claimed that Hitler was an INFP. How laughable. As if a movement as NTJ as National Socialism could be carried by an INFP, regardless of whether or not the other leaders within the movement were NTJs themselves. Read Mein Kampf and you will notice the NTJ logic immediately.

Wow - This is a fascinating document.

Why do you think it points to INTJ? That is, there doesn't seem to be enough relevant information to deduce it or actually to deduce type at all. The part about paranoia and imposing his vision could be part of an INTJ persona but there are many characteristics that could point to other types - like the persuasiveness of ENFJ for example.

Much of the document speaks to characteristics of his personality that have nothing to do with type. It is an exceptional illustration of the complex forces that drive how a person becomes who they are.

The conclusions are built around a different psychological model, but what you need to examine is the behavior itself. Extreme fixation on personal achievement and will power. The self-punishment in the face of perceived self-weakness. The compulsive and neutoric behavior in the face of extreme stress.

I think what is most telling is Hitler's need to exorcise himself of what he perceived as human weakness. In addition the references to Hitler's sexually repressed nature, and his view of sexuality as being dirty and base owing to it's connection with bodily functions is something i've seen in several INTJ's i've known far more than any other type. As well as his preoccuption with his own health and bodily functions to the point of hypochondriasis.

 

[highlander]

Ted Bundy is not likely an INTJ..........I see Ted as more of an E.

Gacy sounds like an E as well.

 

[Oaky]

Hitler was most definitely an INTJ. I too have seen threads where the less informed have claimed that Hitler was an INFP. How laughable. As if a movement as NTJ as National Socialism could be carried by an INFP, regardless of whether or not the other leaders within the movement were NTJs themselves. Read Mein Kampf and you will notice the NTJ logic immediately.

Exactly. Hitler's INTJ personality came out quite well when he was under stress. His psychosomatic physical ailments, his difficulty in making emotional connections, his extreme concern with will-power.

Hitler was neither INTJ nor INFP.



Just sayin

 

[sgtmac_46]

Gacy sounds like an E as well.

Yeah possibly..........definitely more P than J.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Hitler was neither INTJ nor INFP.



Just sayin

Hitler was most definitely INTJ.........just sayin.

In fact, Hitler could be a poster child for extreme INTJ behavior.

The document I provided illustrates behavior that is clearly INTJ behavior. http://library.lawschool.cornell.ed...ons/Donovan/Hitler/upload/Hitler-Section1.pdf


Hitler is indicative of what happens to an INTJ when you subject to early childhood abuse and humiliation.

 

[highlander]

The conclusions are built around a different psychological model, but what you need to examine is the behavior itself. Extreme fixation on personal achievement and will power. The self-punishment in the face of perceived self-weakness. The compulsive and neutoric behavior in the face of extreme stress.

I think what is most telling is Hitler's need to exorcise himself of what he perceived as human weakness. In addition the references to Hitler's sexually repressed nature, and his view of sexuality as being dirty and base owing to it's connection with bodily functions is something i've seen in several INTJ's i've known far more than any other type. As well as his preoccuption with his own health and bodily functions to the point of hypochondriasis.

Well, apparently this has been covered before.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-tm-other-personality-matrices/7408-hitler-analysis.html

 

[sgtmac_46]

Well, apparently this has been covered before.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-tm-other-personality-matrices/7408-hitler-analysis.html

I'm sure it's been covered ad nauseum. The reason it keeps coming up, especially when the topic is INTJ's, is that Hitler exhibits stereotypical extreme INTJ behavior.


Those who argue anything other than INTJ behavior are fixating on things OTHER than Hitler's personality. Things like his behavior in front of crowds, what the Nazis in general did, everything but his personally behavior and the experiences of his intimates.

But if the topic is 'What does an unhealthy INTJ look like?'..........the answer is clearly Hitler...........who is an INTJ that suffered extreme abuse and humiliation as a child, and as a result of that experience, his experience in WWI, and the opportunities of an era of history, became synonymous with evil in our times.

 

[Oaky]

Hitler was most definitely INTJ.........just sayin.

In fact, Hitler could be a poster child for extreme INTJ behavior.

The document I provided illustrates behavior that is clearly INTJ behavior. http://library.lawschool.cornell.ed...ons/Donovan/Hitler/upload/Hitler-Section1.pdf

Have a look at this thread.
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/popular-culture-type/25917-hitler.html
This has been discussed in great detail before.

I need not argue the matter with you.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Have a look at this thread.
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/popular-culture-type/25917-hitler.html
This has been discussed in great detail before.

I need not argue the matter with you.

There's really nothing to argue. Hitler was an INTJ.

The notions that Hitler was somehow some errant NF are completely absurd.
The notions that Hitler was an SP/SJ of any sort is equally absurd.
Hitler was clearly an NT.......certainly not, as shown by any even casual examination of his life, an E. And anyone who has ever even been in the same room with an INTP would know that's clearly wrong.

By process of elimination, and clear support based on facts, INTJ is the only logical conclusion available.

But I do note that INFJ won the vote.........clearly illustrating more about the voters than the subject of the vote.

 

[highlander]

Hitler can't be typed

This, I would believe.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/279825-post87.html

 

[sgtmac_46]

This, I would believe.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/279825-post87.html

The folks claiming Entj are doing so because of his speeches solely.........the false assumption being that an INTJ being an introvert would not be able to perform so well in front of a crowd.

A thorough examination of his personal life, say through the analysis I linked, or such works as 'Inside the Third Reich' that examines his personal life and personal behavior clearly indicate an Intj.

The reality is that Hitler was never comfortable in his own skin, something ENTJ's are, nor was he ever comfortable with intimates, and was always an extremely private person.

His public speeches and rhetoric were tools he carefully crafted.

 

[highlander]

There's really nothing to argue. Hitler was an INTJ.

The notions that Hitler was somehow some errant NF are completely absurd.
The notions that Hitler was an SP/SJ of any sort is equally absurd.
Hitler was clearly an NT.......certainly not, as shown by any even casual examination of his life, an E. And anyone who has ever even been in the same room with an INTP would know that's clearly wrong.

By process of elimination, and clear support based on facts, INTJ is the only logical conclusion available.

But I do note that INFJ won the vote.........clearly illustrating more about the voters than the subject of the vote.

He very well could be. Just not sure how you are so certain. There seem to be a number of characteristics that point to the possibility. If I were to guess, I would guess probably INTJ or INFJ. There are things that don't make sense though. For example, the way he was able to inspire, motivate, and win the hearts and minds of such a large mass of people. These seem like characteristics of a different type - like INFJ, ENFJ, or ENTJ. His breaking down and weeping - doesn't sound too INTJ either. There are just so many contradictions, I don't know how one can know anything.