What do you understand by democracy?

[Lark]

What do you understand by democracy? Are there things more important than democracy? Is democracy only a system of government or is it something else?

 

[Red Herring]

Democracy is the self-ruling of the people.

Voting and majority decisions are an important aspect of that but far from enough to have true democracy. In order to really represent the entire population it is important to make sure that the minority is to a certain degree protected from the majority, i.e. that the majority can't simply decide to take away essential rights from a minority. It also requires a fundamental respect for a basic inalienable rights, an basic value of every human being that can't be taken from you. That is one reason why I think both the death penalty and not allowing prisoners or former fellons to vote is incompatible with true democracy.

There is a scene in Doctor Shivago where a landowner finds his house in the countryside locked down by revolutionaries with a sign saying "property of the people". "Well", he says, "I too am part of the people!" and he tears down the sign and breaks open the door. I always liked that scene.

In order to be able to coexist peacefully and practice this self-rule the population needs to be able to make informed decisions. That requires freedom of the press (to ensure access to information and different viewpoints) as well as high quality publically funded education (to be able to think critically and distinguish fact from bullshit, especially when bullshit is free and frequent).

Another requirement for a functioning democracy is trust in processes and institutions. Trust that the processes will help truth come to light, solutions and compromises to be found, etc. Trust both in a certain degree of continuity and predictability of the rules and institutions established and in the possibility to change them if necessary through peaceful processes.

All those are requirements for a true democracy deserving of that name.

 

[Mole]

Democracy is the self-ruling of the people.

Voting and majority decisions are an important aspect of that but far from enough to have true democracy. In order to really represent the entire population it is important to make sure that the minority is to a certain degree protected from the majority, i.e. that the majority can't simply decide to take away essential rights from a minority. It also requires a fundamental respect for a basic inalienable rights, an basic value of every human being that can't be taken from you. That is one reason why I think both the death penalty and not allowing prisoners or former fellons to vote is incompatible with true democracy.

There is a scene in Doctor Shivago where a landowner finds his house in the countryside locked down by revolutionaries with a sign saying "property of the people". "Well", he says, "I too am part of the people!" and he tears down the sign and breaks open the door. I always liked that scene.

In order to be able to coexist peacefully and practice this self-rule the population needs to be able to make informed decisions. That requires freedom of the press (to ensure access to information and different viewpoints) as well as high quality publically funded education (to be able to think critically and distinguish fact from bullshit, especially when bullshit is free and frequent).

Another requirement for a functioning democracy is trust in processes and institutions. Trust that the processes will help truth come to light, solutions and compromises to be found, etc. Trust both in a certain degree of continuity and predictability of the rules and institutions established and in the possibility to change them if necessary through peaceful processes.

All those are requirements for a true democracy deserving of that name.

I don't know whether to address you as Red or to address you as Herring, so I will content myself in answering the question, what is democracy?

We discovered that power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, so we limit power by liberal democracy.

The essence of liberal democracy is the limitation of power, this is counter intuitive as politicians want to increase their power, so there is a creative tension within liberal democracy between the wishes of the politicians and liberal democracy itself.

And of course we limit power by the Separation of Powers, so we limit power by posing power against power, naturally this leads to conflict, but not violence, and to discontent. We find this addressed in German in, "Civilisation and It's Discontent", by Dr Sigmund Freud, click Civilization and Its Discontents - Wikipedia.

Winston Churchill remarked that democracy is the worst system of government, except for all the others.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

America is a REPUBLIC you dingus not a democracy.

 

[Mole]

America is a REPUBLIC you dingus not a democracy.

A liberal democracy limits power, and the USA Constitution limits power by the Separation of Powers, which is vigorously pursued in the USA. So the USA is a democracy.

By the same token, a Republic, from the Latin res publica, meaning public things, conducts its business in public. And the government of the USA conducts its business in the full glare of a free press, not to mention, radio, TV, magazines, and the net. So the USA is also Republic.

The USA is a Republican Democracy. How lucky can you be? Only by living in the Lucky Country.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

A liberal democracy limits power, and the USA Constitution limits power by the Separation of Powers, which is vigorously pursued in the USA. So the USA is a democracy.

By the same token, a Republic, from the Latin res publica, meaning public things, conducts its business in public. And the government of the USA conducts its business in the full glare of a free press, not to mention, radio, TV, magazines, and the net. So the USA is also Republic.

The USA is a Republican Democracy. How lucky can you be? Only by living in the Lucky Country.

I was being sarcastic. That's a dumb thing that some Republicans in the U.S. like to say.

 

[Red Memories]

Julius, interesting to me, because I am far more used to hearing people suggest we are a democracy and forget that we are a mix.

We are a democratic republic. We elect people to represent us. But so many people, especially on lower elections for senate or the house, do not educate themselves on candidates and vote accordingly, so it ends up being a trainwreck. The system only works if we continue to strive to educate ourselves and not become complacent living behind the white picket fence.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Julius, interesting to me, because I am far more used to hearing people suggest we are a democracy and forget that we are a mix.

It might be more of an internet Republican thing. I've never heard someone say that IRL.

 

[Lark]

America is a REPUBLIC you dingus not a democracy.

On cue!

 

[Lark]

It might be more of an internet Republican thing. I've never heard someone say that IRL.

To be honest, I'm not sure most of the online republican/libertarian dichotomies of representation vs. democracy are that clear, at least not beyond a very contemporary concern that no one should be able to vote for public services or public spending, expect, maybe, military spending, policing, maybe public tax revenue subsidies for private prisons.

Something that I was going to lead on from this basic idea or differentiation was about the structure of clubs, societies, maybe branches or chapters of political parties, where do people practice these ideas or is it just election time?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

To be honest, I'm not sure most of the online republican/libertarian dichotomies of representation vs. democracy are that clear, at least not beyond a very contemporary concern that no one should be able to vote for public services or public spending, expect, maybe, military spending, policing, maybe public tax revenue subsidies for private prisons.

Yeah, I 've never understood what that was supposed to mean. I think the only reason they say that is because they vote for the Republican party rather than the Democratic party.

I feel like democracy in organizations doesn't necessarily need to involve a formal voting process, but rather leaders seeking out the opinions of the members of the organization, and then acting based on those.

 

[theablekingedgar]

Democracy is rule by the people - where in some form the will of the people is paramount.

There is no best system - democracy as we know it today was just the application of what the Enlightenment thinkers outlined.

 

[tony_goth]

I'm an anarcho-capitalist. I'll explain my motivations.

A democratic centralized State has the power to turn itself to a non-democratic State. Some people think "Dictatorship is an alarm bell to be pulled in case of an emergency" or something, but many people pulled alarm bells without actual emergency, mostly for joking. And politicians are people too, and they're not jokingly ; when it's their interests they will push the red button, real emergency or not. Politicians are not your friends.

I think no current country is a pure democracy because their States are centralized. Even if they might have democratic qualities.

I think pure democracy means it has to be impossible to turn undemocratic, and with an uncentralized State I think it will be nearly impossible. Anarcho-capitalism may not be the only idea that seems to fit the notion of "pure democracy", but that's my side at the moment.

But this does not mean that "pure democracy" fits the single most socially desirable system at the moment. But I think it will probably be, in like 150 years.

I do have an idea of a purely democratic country but I think we don't yet have the equipment for.