What are some credible medical journals I can find regarding chiropractic care?

[gromit]

I am unsure if chiropractic care or something more mainline would help. I am looking for some scholarly articles on the efficiency of different treatments for similar cases so this goes away as quick as possible. I have several options on the table if I scrape all of my savings together, but I need to know the best one according to evidence.

Vet...I would normally laugh at that.

In all seriousness, though, I know from biology that only dogs have backs as straight as the X-ray I saw. I wanted a splash of half-serious humor to lighten things up around this definitely serious topic.

WHERE IS THE LITERATURE ON THIS?

A lot of literature you need a subscription for. I have access through my school/program, but if I were to google, a lot of stuff (eg pubmed) you need to log in to access the information.

The other thing, if you aren't versed in the literature, the techniques involved, and what specifically you are reading about, it can be very difficult to decipher whether it can apply to you or not, whether the subjects in the study are similar enough to you, whether the treatments they are receiving are similar to what you would be receiving, and any limitations in the design of the study which could bias the results. If you don't know what you are looking at it's easy to read "X better than Y" but you miss the full picture if you cannot understand all the nuances inherent in what's being studied or discussed.

Also, not sure how much education you have had on statistical analysis, but that is very important in order to fully understand a research study.

Physicians and other professionals, meanwhile, have all of the above: access to research, extensive background knowledge in that particular field, and a thorough understanding of statistical analysis.

When you talk to your orthopedic doctor, say that you would really prefer to try more conservative treatment, such as chiropractic (or physical therapy) rather than bracing or surgery and talk to her/him about outcomes for someone in your shoes. I will tell you now that conservative treatment can have great outcomes, but I will also say that I don't know your situation, the specifics of what's going on with your body, so there may be factors that might make other options better in the long run for you. And only someone who can see you in person, observe how your back is and how you move, can truly give you advice on what is best. A good practitioner will listen to what you want and work with that if it's in your best interest. So be sure to make it clear that this is what you want when you have that conversation.

 

[Ivy]

I'm with [MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION]- physical therapy should have been one of the options you were offered, before chiropractic.

 

[Avocado]

I'm with @gromit- physical therapy should have been one of the options you were offered, before chiropractic.

Aren't those the same thing?

At any rate, I heard him say chiropractic, so that was what I've been looking at. I just wasn't sure after he said he preferred chiropractic care and even less so when he said "could work, but maybe not. I just prefer it because it is cheap and noninvasive compared to the other options."

I may just cross fingers and go with that option he gave. I had whiplash when I was a kid, and I did what I think was PT with that. This is my whole spine, though, so it's scarier, especially since I'm stumbling around everywhere.

 

[Avocado]

A lot of literature you need a subscription for. I have access through my school/program, but if I were to google, a lot of stuff (eg pubmed) you need to log in to access the information.

The other thing, if you aren't versed in the literature, the techniques involved, and what specifically you are reading about, it can be very difficult to decipher whether it can apply to you or not, whether the subjects in the study are similar enough to you, whether the treatments they are receiving are similar to what you would be receiving, and any limitations in the design of the study which could bias the results. If you don't know what you are looking at it's easy to read "X better than Y" but you miss the full picture if you cannot understand all the nuances inherent in what's being studied or discussed.

Also, not sure how much education you have had on statistical analysis, but that is very important in order to fully understand a research study.

Physicians and other professionals, meanwhile, have all of the above: access to research, extensive background knowledge in that particular field, and a thorough understanding of statistical analysis.

When you talk to your orthopedic doctor, say that you would really prefer to try more conservative treatment, such as chiropractic (or physical therapy) rather than bracing or surgery and talk to her/him about outcomes for someone in your shoes. I will tell you now that conservative treatment can have great outcomes, but I will also say that I don't know your situation, the specifics of what's going on with your body, so there may be factors that might make other options better in the long run for you. And only someone who can see you in person, observe how your back is and how you move, can truly give you advice on what is best. A good practitioner will listen to what you want and work with that if it's in your best interest. So be sure to make it clear that this is what you want when you have that conversation.

Your right about that. Well, I'll get 1 more opinion, from a doctor and then if I get a similar answer, I'll just bet my lucky 7's on chiropractic care.

 

[gromit]

Aren't those the same thing?

At any rate, I heard him say chiropractic, so that was what I've been looking at. I just wasn't sure after he said he preferred chiropractic care and even less so when he said "could work, but maybe not. I just prefer it because it is cheap and noninvasive compared to the other options."

I may just cross fingers and go with that option he gave. I had whiplash when I was a kid, and I did what I think was PT with that. This is my whole spine, though, so it's scarier, especially since I'm stumbling around everywhere.

nope I posted some of the differences.

 

[GarrotTheThief]

back surgeons and chiropractors are at war with each other. A surgeon wants you to have surgery. He gets paid a lot of money by your insurance if you do. I mean enough to pay 1/4th down on a bmw.

A chiropractor gets money for consistently seeing you so they don't want you to have surgery.

The above the economic point of view.

There is also one of hollisticness. I had surgery once and it left me unable to feel the lower half of my face. I Would have the surgery again, but i will never feel my lower lip, I will never feel the wet smack of a warm kiss again, and I can barely taste most food.

It doesn't bother me at all...but if i were to have surgery on my back the implications are more detrimental from a functional point of view. A chiropractor tends more towards the holistic side of things and will also want to help you change your habbits if your back pain is caused by bad habbits.

A orthopedic surgeon has no problem with you coming in for multiple surgeries other than the issue of being sued.

Orthopedic surgeons detest chiropractors if we are speaking strictly economically because for them, one visit is 500-10000 where as the chiropractor charges you around 50-100..

 

[Avocado]

OOOF that sucks.

Before I weigh in, I just want to make sure: were you seen by a physician following your motor vehicle crash, to make sure you didn't have any fractures underlying your pain?

As for my opinion about chiropractic, I'm of course going to be a little biased (as a student physical therapist) but here's my take on it: chiropractic can give you short-term relief but then you may keep having to go back.

The small muscles around your spine do not get exercised or strengthened with chiropractic, which is often what you need following an injury or with back pain in general. Physical therapy works toward restoring those muscles to functioning the way they are meant to: contracting when they are supposed to, and relaxing when they are supposed to. When those muscles are nice and strong, they support your spine's natural curvature in all different positions and motions, but when you have an injury, those muscles sort of go into shock, and don't do their job properly, and moving can cause you to feel pain. That's why it's so important to get them working well again! The PT will teach you and assist you with exercises that start out very simple, usually lying down, so that you learn how it feels to use those little muscles and then over time will progress to things like bridging and hands and knees and then standing and moving quickly. They will probably also do some stretching and work with the muscles and spine with their hands to help relieve pain and tension.

Then, once you're back to moving without such extreme pain, the idea is that as long as you keep moving your back and exercising it in healthy ways, you hopefully don't need to go back to PT.

So in terms of long-term, physical therapy has a lot to offer that you may not get with chiropractic.

Chiropractor vs. Physical Therapy: Effective for the Back | LIVESTRONG.COM



edit: ah sorry, I just saw that I was tagged, and posted before reading through the whole thread. I'm actually super surprised that the physician did not mention PT as one of the options for you. It's also non-invasive and can have as good (or often better) long-term results compared to surgery, without all the complications and risks.

I would ask your physician about a good physical therapist that s/he recommends for back pain.

I also agree with what others have said about the spine curvatures not necessarily being a bad thing or the cause of your problems. Reduced spine curvature is associated with back pain, but not everyone with a "flat" spine necessarily has back pain. You may be able to get some of the curves back with PT, as your pain subsides (eg your body might be holding itself in that rigid position to "protect" itself from further pain), or you may reduce your pain and keep the straighter spine. But really it is the pain that is bothering you, right?

I skipped right over this post when I was reading replies earlier.

ADHD acting up, I suppose.

anyway, thank you for the insight regarding the differences between these two disciplines. The moment I heard there was a debate over which one works, I thought it was a public opinion debate rather than one among professionals. I thought it would be as simple as going to a reputable website, probably a respected laymen's magazine on the topic, and I would have my answer. Surely, I thought, I could trust an orthopedic doctor if he recommended chiropractic. I like to be sure, though. When the lay magazines seemed at odds, I started to panic. My next thought was to find peer-review scholarly articles and sit and just start reading them one by one, synthesizing the information I gathered. When I couldn't get that, I basically fell down the rabbit hole feeling like I couldn't trust anybody and feeling like I can be certain of anything and panicking and thinking I was just a big fool to believe anything else I hold onto. I began to doubt if I can really know anything for certain, no matter how commonly held the belief is or how sound the reasoning may seem. Then, I thought, "Well, just do what you always do when you aren't sure if something is true: make a "control" group of several specimens--which you do nothing to but observe, then make several other groups where everything else is the same but you change one thing. Once you see what happens, you can choose which result you like best and you can see what the likelihood of that scenario is if you have enough specimens per group. Everything should be fine. Now how do I test this?" Then I panicked because I don't know how to test it. So, I went back to searching for articles and it became a kind of madness, an obsession. I know a decision must be made, though. I can't say I have the confidence at this point to feel secure, though. Granted, I haven't read the article, and I will edit in my insight when I do.

Now why did I even get on this forum again? I was in a somewhat good mood, and focusing on this problem again ruined it.

I'm just scared, ok?

Edit: Ok, I read the article. If my comprehension hasn't failed me, it states that chiropractic care is revolved around short term relief and positioning of the bones, while PT is strengthening and retraining the muscles (which should also bring back at least a small curve to my neck and back, as the muscles control at least a little of that) as well as providing long term relief. This contradicts what a chiropractor told me, but confirms what a PT told me. The chiropractor said they are all about long term care and relief. Somebody is fooling me somewhere and I don't like it. Both claims cannot be correct simultaneously. Though, both could be incorrect. There are a number of hypothesis I could draw from this. The first is that both help, though in different ways, and this "controversy" is just a money grab between two factions which, as co-conspirators, benefits both parties behind the scene. There is money involved, and money does strange things to otherwise honest people. The second is that neither help 100% of the time and the placebo effect is in play here. I doubt this one more than those before and after it. The third is that they are complentary treatments, but inadequate research has left this gap unbridged.

I PROPOSE AN EXPERIMENT

Take 4 groups of 1000. All participants will be screened by a committee of 50 orthopedic doctors to objectively determine their starting state according to relevant factors of wellness. In addition, participants will rate their pain from 1-10 to determine their subjective starting point regarding pain. All of these factors will be averaged. The first group, selected at random from a pool of 4000 males and females with the same spinal problem, goes without treatment for 6 months. They are the control. The second group, also selected at random, will recieve regular chiropractic care for 6 months. The third, regular physical therapy for 6 months. The fourth group will recieve both treatments simultaneously for 6 months. At the end of 6 months, the committee will review the participants health on relevent metrics and participants will rate their pain level. These results will be averaged and compared to their original results to find who experienced the most improvement. A statistician will also analyze the results.

I so wish I could run that.

 

[Avocado]

back surgeons and chiropractors are at war with each other. A surgeon wants you to have surgery. He gets paid a lot of money by your insurance if you do. I mean enough to pay 1/4th down on a bmw.

A chiropractor gets money for consistently seeing you so they don't want you to have surgery.

The above the economic point of view.

There is also one of hollisticness. I had surgery once and it left me unable to feel the lower half of my face. I Would have the surgery again, but i will never feel my lower lip, I will never feel the wet smack of a warm kiss again, and I can barely taste most food.

It doesn't bother me at all...but if i were to have surgery on my back the implications are more detrimental from a functional point of view. A chiropractor tends more towards the holistic side of things and will also want to help you change your habbits if your back pain is caused by bad habbits.

A orthopedic surgeon has no problem with you coming in for multiple surgeries other than the issue of being sued.

Orthopedic surgeons detest chiropractors if we are speaking strictly economically because for them, one visit is 500-10000 where as the chiropractor charges you around 50-100..

Yes, as I feared. Economics may be distorting the flow of data, but all I want is the truth. The bottom line. The real deal. I want to see behind these facades presented to us to the underlying reality of the situation.

 

[GarrotTheThief]

Yes, as I feared. Economics may be distorting the flow of data, but all I want is the truth. The bottom line. The real deal. I want to see behind these facades presented to us to the underlying reality of the situation.

Welcome to the pitfalls of capitalism/communism. Notice, the two are one...two sides of the same coin...they feed each other and are basically fundamentally the same - two views on how to exploit.

When someone is against communism they are also against capitalism and vice versa. It's laughable to see debates about which is better...that is like debating if grape flavor gum is better than strawberry grape flavored gum...both are gum and both are also grape flavored...i suppose some people detest strawberries then, but the question becomes are they strawberries then and in denial?

Back to the point though, and how you beautifully stated it...economics is disease to society and if it were a person should be tried for treason, murder, rape, and theft. - coming from a business major.

 

[Avocado]

Welcome to the pitfalls of capitalism/communism. Notice, the two are one...two sides of the same coin...they feed each other and are basically fundamentally the same - two views on how to exploit.

When someone is against communism they are also against capitalism and vice versa. It's laughable to see debates about which is better...that is like debating if grape flavor gum is better than strawberry grape flavored gum...both are gum and both are also grape flavored...i suppose some people detest strawberries then, but the question becomes are they strawberries then and in denial?

Back to the point though, and how you beautifully stated it...economics is disease to society and if it were a person should be tried for treason, murder, rape, and theft. - coming from a business major.

As I said in a reply to someone else--money makes otherwise normal people do strange things. The more I've reflected on these matters, the more I've learned that the best thing that could happen to our world is a scrapping of this outdated and often detrimental paradigm of competition and exploitation at the expense of others. Each economic system I've tried to understand simply places the issues in different areas, but they still, in fact, persist. I'm glad you recognize this as well. Bravo.

I'm somewhat pessimistic regarding the possibility that the zeitgeist possessing our world will pass, but if it happens, it will involve the vast majority of the population to rise up and overthrow it, or at least refuse to participate. I will not hold my breath.