sleuthiness
jump
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2008
- Messages
- 1,858
- MBTI Type
- INFP
- Enneagram
- 54
- Instinctual Variant
- so/sp
Poop your pants
A Social-first of another enneatype might have a completely different focus.
Yeah, but you are an Extrovert. It's easy to confuse what the driving factor may be behind any one choice/action/preference.
I agree with EJCC you seem Sx first and may be a Sx/So.
Probably. With a SJ the JCF might alter the thinking slightly. A SFJ for example, might put more stock in the opinions of the group because they use Fe to consult the group in order to come to a decision. And all SJs might be less inclined to disagree and disrupt because Si encourages them to stick with what has been proven to work effectively over time. But then maybe Te stubbornness will make a STJ more likely to hold to their own views and dismiss others'. Like I said above, there can be multiple factors in play.
5s:
Sp accentuates the type's characteristics
So is neutral
Sx counteracts
3s:
So accentuates the type's characteristics
Sx is neutral
Sp counteracts
8s
Sx accentuates the type's characteristics
Sp is neutral
So counteracts
You keep claiming that but in your thread I kept seeing quite neurotic sp from you, and not the kind of neurotic sp I'd expect from an sp first type but from an sp last type. Also, as I mentioned in your thread, all the issues you raised as sp concerns most of all seemed like 6 concerns. Even when I asked you to specifically try to provide with how you approach sp it just seems to kind of fall out of your mind, like you couldn't quite grasp the concept itself.
That is also another strong indication of sp most likely being your blind spot. Just because you do not perceive your blind spot means it's not there - that's why it is called the blind spot. Think about, it's a blind spot because we cannot see it as a weakness or deficiency since we tend to so blatantly ignore it.
That's pretty much how I understand so as well as sx/sp. I'm like, oh, community, news, belonging, network society? What's that?
There is a preoccupation for me, as a 9, to feel "part of" a sense of belonging, however this preoccupation is also an indication that I never actually achieve that, rather it's a constant driver that I am compelled to find without ending.
I don't pay attention to who knows who, that's bland and boring to me, it's more that I read social dynamics as naturally as reading a book, it seems obvious to me, the interpersonal dynamics between anyone and everyone without paying specific attention to who is who. Filtered through my 9 it's important for me to know the interpersonal dynamics so I can influence potential conflicts before they occur so that my peace isn't disrupted.
I have a need for recognition in aspects, to not be ignored, I don't care much for prestige.
Of course, am also an extrovert though. And on the flip side, I am also often times highly anti-social and reclusive, as a So dom it's the area that has a big impact on me is all, like a Sp dom can flip between preoccupation with needs and neglect, or a Sx dom can flip between seeking meaningful connections and promiscuity, So is about the flip between social and anti-social.
The biggest thing for me is the focus on interpersonal dynamics, picture a politician who can see all the dynamics of a room and know who to hit up and at what angle to get what he needs, that's how it works for me, the second major area is the preoccupation for being "part of".
Please refer to post #12 where I go over this in great detail.
I don't know enough about the internal experiences of everyday Sx-firsts to really say for sure, but I don't imagine they never weigh options or think things through. And if you're a 6, you're more likely to consider potential hurdles ahead of time, even if you are a Sx.Yeah, that's what everyone keeps saying that I'm Sx/So. However, I was just reading through some threads on PerC and I saw a post from Promethea. It sounds like SX doms have a strong intensity that I don't have. I have quite a bit of intensity, yes. However, I'm not sure if I have enough intensity to be an sx dom. Also, many sx doms tell me that they pretty much have to follow wherever their intense passions lead them no matter what. I'm not really sure that I relate to this. After all, I try to always weigh the options before I make a decision and not just follow something blindly. I try to think everything through.
I see what you're saying. The wings do change the pull of the instincts. I'm a 4w5, and that wing adds a Sp flavour - and I actually thought for while that I was a Sp-first. However, regardless of one's stacking or wings, the type itself does have an inherent lean to one of the instincts. The 4 has an underlying Sx-ness to the type; there is a sort of passion and intensity that goes with it. I'm a Sx-last but I can still sense that aspect within myself.2. I agree and disagree with what you say about 3's. I believe that SO last counteracts the 3w2, but it doesn't counteract eh 3w4. 3w2's chase success because they want to be socially praised for their success and want recognition. However, 3w4's often times go out and get their success for themselves so to say. They need to just personally feel like they are successful based on just being in the cream of the crop. They don't necessarily need the praise and admiration that the 3w2's need.
But desiring to climb the social ladder isn't necessarily anything to do with the social instinct; what matters is the reason why they want to do it. An 8's want control and power and often the only way to get this is by being on top. They might not give a damn about the success aspect; they're just glad to have dominance. 8s tend to be extremely intense; they're are driven very personal goals and don't really notice or care how it affects others - hence very Sx inclined and not so much So in nature.3. I'm not really sure that I agree that SO counteracts type 8 either. I've noticed especially that a lot of 8w7 so/sp types will often want to climb the social ladder for power so-to-say. For instance my ESTJ grandfather was an 8w7 so/sp and he was all about power, indepence, control, etc. He was in the military and climbed the social ladder and the ranks in order to (in his later life) become a very powerful man in the military.
The SO Eight is a contradiction: a rebellious person who goes against social norms, but who is also oriented toward protection and loyalty. Archetypically, this was the child who got violent in protecting the mother from the father – violence out of solidarity. In contrast to the SP Eight, the SO Eight is more loyal and less aggressive. (This is the countertype.)
I don't know enough about the internal experiences of everyday Sx-firsts to really say for sure, but I don't imagine they never weigh options or think things through. And if you're a 6, you're more likely to consider potential hurdles ahead of time, even if you are a Sx.
I wouldn't rule it out.
I don't know enough about the internal experiences of everyday Sx-firsts to really say for sure, but I don't imagine they never weigh options or think things through. And if you're a 6, you're more likely to consider potential hurdles ahead of time, even if you are a Sx.
I wouldn't rule it out.
But desiring to climb the social ladder isn't necessarily anything to do with the social instinct; what matters is the reason why they want to do it. An 8's want control and power and often the only way to get this is by being on top. They might not give a damn about the success aspect; they're just glad to have dominance. 8s tend to be extremely intense; they're are driven very personal goals and don't really notice or care how it affects others - hence very Sx inclined and not so much So in nature.
Here's what Beatrice Chestnut says about So 8s (which was in that thread I linked to):
[MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION],
It still seems like you really stress on sp concerns and your fears revolve around them - your physical attractiveness, your appearance, your body, your possible impotence, your finances, your bodily pain - clearly being desirable and being able to secure a mate are of high importance to you, but your sx consciousness seems more tailored to mate attraction, and less about intensity of connection, immersion, and need for constant strong stimulation. Are those impulses stronger in you than the impulse to safeguard yourself, your body, and your desirability? Sx is a paradoxically self-destructive instinct as it is constantly seeking to subsume the self... you do not sound particularly self-destructive to me thus far. Are you?
I'm actually very self destructive and self sabotaging. I've been seeing a hypnotherapist about it actually. I have all of these crazy impulses to do random shit and they are really bad and could easily get me locked up in jail. Also, I do want strong passion in a relationship, and I guess that's the same thing that you would call intensity isn't it? I become obsessed with relationships when I am with a person, and often times get pretty damn clingy. I connect with a person really fast. Also, I've found that I don't have much control over who I "vibe" with, I just do and this also seems SX. It's almost like I have a key, and I'm trying to find the right ignition that the key fits into to. You don't think I'm sx last do you?
I doubt you're sx last. It's hard to read you though... 6w7s are hard to read - so much vacillation... We're constantly springboarding off whatever externally arises. Hard to get a "pure" answer out of us. I'm just surprised by the content of your fears.
so/sx. you don't seem to have the focus, or self-driven know where you're at because you know what you want feeling. you seem like you'd like to shop around more. you also have a more scattered, diffuse, expectation-driven so energy. so/sx = best friend type, kind of whirlwind of energy style. most classically wooing type. sx you feel more clearly your own horsepower. it's less about the environmental context and more about unflinching direction, being more directly connected to and trusting yourself to focus on what you want.
increasing so definitely adds a dimension of clinginess. they rely on the setting and the expectations of others to help them stabilize themselves much more so. who they are is a product of the roles they play more than what they want and where they believe they must go (group/social context/community comes first in defining the situation). that sense of belief that accompanies sx, that is both a mindless self-destructive competitiveness to be at the top and at the same time an internal felt sense of one's own destiny, puts my own definition first. in other words, from what i've seen, so likes to be in the heart of the game, to be on the stage, more than they know what game they ultimately need to play to fulfill themselves most fully. whereas sx more often ignores those factors, roles and expectations, to perpetuate its own purposes.
1. What makes you say that I'm not sx last?
2. What surprises you about the content of my fears?
I definitely have the energy of a so/sx as well. I just wonder why I seem so into self preservation stuff if I'm so/sx?
But I'm not sure you really have the sx-first energy. You're so conscious about sx stuff. When a variant is dominant... it's usually not that conscious. It's more just like it's coloring everything to an extent that it's almost in the background, if that makes sense.
could you expand on this? how have you seen this manifest?
that sense of belief that accompanies sx, that is both a mindless self-destructive competitiveness to be at the top and at the same time an internal felt sense of one's own destiny, puts my own definition first. in other words, from what i've seen, so likes to be in the heart of the game, to be on the stage, more than they know what game they ultimately need to play to fulfill themselves most fully. whereas sx more often ignores those factors, roles and expectations, to perpetuate its own purposes.
could you expand on this? how have you seen this manifest?
Marmotini said:It really almost seems unreal