Brownster (5:32:31 PM): well it doesnt say he banished him to earhth just that he kicked him out of heaven i think i havent read it
Elaur said:
Not to mention, it doesn't matter what subject it is that you talk to people who can't form a logical argument, they won't form one. I hate when people use lame friends who can't discuss on their "logical" level to pretend that that's how "logical" people would discuss Christianity if they actually talked to a LOGICAL person about it.
Many people do not operate on a logical basis for any area of their lives. As you say, this is just more of the same.
It is rather like shooting fish in a barrel... What's the point exactly? SOmetimes it seems really useless.
However, I think people can benefit from being thoughtfully challenged about their beliefs and being made to think, rather than just being ridiculed. It would be nice if Brownster here actually went and read some of the stuff he claims to believe, just so he gets a better idea of what he's laying claim to.
TheRationalEdge said:
I believe that your hostility is coming more from you trying to pigeonhole this into the past experiences with "people using lame friends" than anythign I have done. This conversation sums up every one I have had with a christian who believes the bible is completelly correct.
Well, you're still definitely drawing from the lower half of the IQ pool here... to get a better idea, you should probably talk to an older evangelical (30-50's) who actually attends Bible study and tries to have an informed faith, even if they hold the same positions. Then you'd get better clarity on why they might think as they do.
A lot of what your friend here was saying is actually what the standard belief is, but he can't articulate himself well nor has he really invested a lot in understanding what he was taught what he was taught, so it comes off as really hokey.
Some people just don't want to engage in the philosophical debate. Just accept it and move on to someone else.
In general I agree.... but specifically this is the same sort of shoddy uninformed thinking and beliefs not tied to reality that leads to certain social assumptions that end up being expressed by laws like Proposition 8 in CA.
So no, it's not harmless, this sort of unchallenged thinking actually contributes negatively to the social discussion. I'm a lot happier with people who might hold the same beliefs but can actually articulate why, than I am with people who hold opinions and can't explain why they hold them. There has to be SOME degree of challenge in order to help weed out believing in things that don't make sense just because that's what you were taught.
Also, if someon said "i am not comfertable/ something else, in discussing this, i wouldnt"
I think that's entirely respectable.