Trump vs. Biden

[The Cat]

I have a legitimate question:
My mother said she read Joe Biden wants to get rid of any homeschooling and schooling outside of public schools. I cannot find an exact quote on it. Does anyone know where he stands on this? Because...as a homeschooled-my-entire-life person I don't like the sound of that. I could understand possibly more regulations on it or changing it to where someone cannot literally "unschool" their child but removing all of it?

Honestly neither of these candidates really has any moral high ground... It is sad we're asking people to vote on the basis it "isn't Trump." But I guess that's where we are now. I'd rather write someone in who might be a reasonable moderate candidate. I don't relate to either party remotely anymore.

Where did she read it?

 

[Red Memories]

Where did she read it?

I do not know. My mother usually catches random headlines from all kinds of places, but some also aren't accurate. Hence I asked since I haven't been able to find it myself where he really said anything about school options. I figured someone more versed on following his agendas would be able to at least say where it possibly was mistranslated from even.

 

[The Cat]

I do not know. My mother usually catches random headlines from all kinds of places, but some also aren't accurate. Hence I asked since I haven't been able to find it myself where he really said anything about school options. I figured someone more versed on following his agendas would be able to at least say where it possibly was mistranslated from even.

You could always ask her; but imo it sounds like your mom is playing her own perhaps accidental game of telephone. Given that you havent been able to find any proof on your own.

 

[Totenkindly]

I have a legitimate question:
My mother said she read Joe Biden wants to get rid of any homeschooling and schooling outside of public schools. I cannot find an exact quote on it. Does anyone know where he stands on this? Because...as a homeschooled-my-entire-life person I don't like the sound of that. I could understand possibly more regulations on it or changing it to where someone cannot literally "unschool" their child but removing all of it?

Honestly neither of these candidates really has any moral high ground... It is sad we're asking people to vote on the basis it "isn't Trump." But I guess that's where we are now. I'd rather write someone in who might be a reasonable moderate candidate. I don't relate to either party remotely anymore.

Trump Twists Biden's Position on School Choice/Charter Schools - FactCheck.org

I don't see anything about homeschooling. (I think the general public opinion about homeschooling is that it should be allowed but needs to be monitored to ensure it is meeting a bar of standards.) Trump is apparently just painting wildly with his extremist paintbrush, as he has done his entire life in the media. What we've seen in the last four years too is for the richest people to get vouchers for their kids and this pulls money from the public school systems so they operate more poorly with less resources. It's a complicated topic, though, in terms of how to improve the public school system.

In a series of virtual tele-rallies, President Donald Trump repeatedly distorted Joe Biden’s position on education, claiming the former vice president wants to “end school choice” and “abolish charter schools.”

Biden, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, opposes federal funding going to “for-profit charter schools,” but schools managed by for-profit companies make up only a fraction of charter schools. And while Biden opposes vouchers for private school tuition — the ultimate in school choice for some — he does not oppose students choosing between public schools, magnet schools and high-performing charter schools.

To be honest, I grew up in a poorer rural highly religious area and am aware of different types of schooling -- the public schools, the small christian schools, and also homeschooling typically for religious reasons. Some families homeschooled their kids well, some were awful and should have never been allowed --- it was all based on "keeping their kids away from those horrible secular influences" but the parents had no ability or knack for it, nor interest in actual education. It's one of those things that really needs to be monitored and standardized. I'm really not acquainted with homeschooling that was not religion-based in some way, to be honest... so it's easy to see a cloistered environment being fostered. Again, it depends on the parents, their ability to teach well (and discipline to commit to a sensible curriculum), and how well they want their kids to contribute to society as a whole versus viewing society as something to stay away from / distrust.

 

[Red Memories]

Trump Twists Biden's Position on School Choice/Charter Schools - FactCheck.org

I don't see anything about homeschooling. (I think the general public opinion about homeschooling is that it should be allowed but needs to be monitored to ensure it is meeting a bar of standards.) Trump is apparently just painting wildly with his extremist paintbrush, as he has done his entire life in the media.




To be honest, I grew up in a poorer rural highly religious area and am aware of different types of schooling -- the public schools, the small christian schools, and also homeschooling typically for religious reasons. Some families homeschooled their kids well, some were awful and should have never been allowed --- it was all based on "keeping their kids away from those horrible secular influences" but the parents had no ability or knack for it, nor interest in actual education. It's one of those things that really needs to be monitored and standardized. I'm really not acquainted with homeschooling that was not religion-based in some way, to be honest... so it's easy to see a cloistered environment being fostered. Again, it depends on the parents, their ability to teach well (and discipline to commit to a sensible curriculum), and how well they want their kids to contribute to society as a whole versus viewing society as something to stay away from / distrust.

My mom actually chose to homeschool me because she was heavily bullied in school and didn't want us to experience that level of bullying while we were trying to learn. But she also always used curriculums she purchased and when I did high school, I did it through an accredited online school so I have an actual high school diploma. I realize not everyone does that sort of thing though. Thanks for the added information. I wanted to understand what the exact words were - because any words can get twisted into a game of telephone as [MENTION=30038]The Cat[/MENTION] said. but they're so against anything progressive right now if I directly ask her she'll get really defensive about me saying anything of it... Another reason I hate the polarized politics right now, my own house is freaking eggshells over it.

People who were homeschooled well, according to my previous sociology instructor though, have increased creative thinking skills and are more prepared for college than some children who come from public schools. But keep in mind most people here would consider public school options like K-12 a form of homeschooling, as did my mother. I don't think these options should be removed. My biggest issue with homeschooling is the stigma I received from others and the fact tutoring was unaffordable for us so when I struggled with something, I feel like certain things I just never figured out and when it came to college math, it did set me back a little. But in other ways I have off and on been ahead of my peers. But again, my mother paid for curriculums rather than just having me go outside and do whatever and called it homeschooling. She only has a GED though. If I ever needed something, she did her best to get it for me. Geometry was just a lost cause for me because I couldn't do a proof for shit. Only for me during a group to discover public schools around here don't even make the kids do that in geometry. XD

I do agree a lot of homeschooling is religious based, because most of the texts my mom got did have some religious mentions in them. The high school program she could afford was Catholic which annoyed her because she hasn't always been fond of Catholics, but they taught me well... but she didn't get on my rags too much if I didn't remember that catechism. She often called that brainwashing. She actually asked me for high school if I wanted to go to public school, I said no. My mother always gave me choices and options and never forced me into anything. I think with that mindset homeschooling can be extremely beneficial for someone, even like me because I actually originally struggled greatly with english and spelling. She could give me more individual time on it which allowed me to succeed. I think it also taught me self-motivation and to be resourceful. So when I got to college, my only major troubles involved group projects. Mainly because I honestly am pretty independent about my schooling now so I don't think I play as nice as I should. But I'm getting better.

 

[Virtual ghost]

This is how the map looks based on polling.

If Biden can fortify just a little bit more some of the lean D states that would basically be game over, under the assumption that the polls are even remotely correct. Especially if he can nudge Ohio or Iowa to his side. While there is only 10 weeks left so there isn't much time left for some grand games all over the map (if we count voting by mail it is even less).


While on the other hand the whole world is watching. Actually for the most part no one out there wants to make a major move until this "puzzle" comes to some kind of a conclusion. Which defines who will represent US in the grand global game and thus how the game will be playing out.

 

[Coriolis]

I do agree a lot of homeschooling is religious based, because most of the texts my mom got did have some religious mentions in them. The high school program she could afford was Catholic which annoyed her because she hasn't always been fond of Catholics, but they taught me well... but she didn't get on my rags too much if I didn't remember that catechism. She often called that brainwashing. She actually asked me for high school if I wanted to go to public school, I said no. My mother always gave me choices and options and never forced me into anything. I think with that mindset homeschooling can be extremely beneficial for someone, even like me because I actually originally struggled greatly with english and spelling. She could give me more individual time on it which allowed me to succeed. I think it also taught me self-motivation and to be resourceful. So when I got to college, my only major troubles involved group projects. Mainly because I honestly am pretty independent about my schooling now so I don't think I play as nice as I should. But I'm getting better.

To me, that isn't so much home schooling as alternate schooling. Yes, you are at home, but your parents are not providing your curriculum, some (usually) online source is, that you have to pay for. I have always had 2 issues with homeschooling, aside of the occasional blinders it results in for religious reasons: 1) it takes some of the most engaged parents/families out of the public system in a way that waters down the experience for others; and 2) it is another example of mothers solving the world's problems for free, since it is usually mothers who stay home to implement it. But that is all for another thread and topic.

I seriously doubt Joe Biden with his Catholic background would oppose anything outside of public schools. If nothing else, Catholic schools (and apparently online curricula) have long been a refuge for students ill served by public offerings. His wife as an educator would know the real pros, cons, and success rates of the various educational options.

Honestly neither of these candidates really has any moral high ground... It is sad we're asking people to vote on the basis it "isn't Trump." But I guess that's where we are now. I'd rather write someone in who might be a reasonable moderate candidate. I don't relate to either party remotely anymore.

I find it noteworthy, though, that you would consider Biden morally on a par with Trump, or somehow not a moderate. His life experiences seem to have given him a real appreciation for hardship and compassion for others, something that has escaped Trump entirely. He also does not hold with the more progressive ideas within the Democratic party, such as universal health care as supported by candidates like Sanders and Warren. Biden seems about as middle-of-the-road as one can get now. He is not my first choice, but he is far from the last. He supports a significant number of positions that I hold, and I think will behave honorably on the world stage as a statesman rather than a buffoon. I disagreed with the first President Bush on many things, but could not fault him here. We have seen for the past 4 years what happens when we are represented by people who have no respect for the office, or those it is supposed to serve.

 

[ceecee]

I have a legitimate question:
My mother said she read Joe Biden wants to get rid of any homeschooling and schooling outside of public schools. I cannot find an exact quote on it. Does anyone know where he stands on this? Because...as a homeschooled-my-entire-life person I don't like the sound of that. I could understand possibly more regulations on it or changing it to where someone cannot literally "unschool" their child but removing all of it?

Honestly neither of these candidates really has any moral high ground... It is sad we're asking people to vote on the basis it "isn't Trump." But I guess that's where we are now. I'd rather write someone in who might be a reasonable moderate candidate. I don't relate to either party remotely anymore.

Please keep in mind alternative schooling of any kind at any level is almost always a state level, not federal level, issue. I hate this kind of shit headline but I also know most people are motivated by fear, which is why BIDEN WON'T LET YOU HOME SCHOOL YOUR KIDS!! grabs a bigger segment of the population than it normally would.

Is your mom concerned about states attempting to reopen schools as well, when patents and school districts are against it? Because I've noticed that the same concern isn't being spread very evenly in most cases.

I'm sorry but Trump and Biden are not on equal footing when it comes to being garbage humans and politics.

Trump Has Now Moved $2.3 Million Of Campaign-Donor Money Into His Private Business

That's just today. It seems to me so many people are looking for a justification to vote for Trump. I just want people to own their choices.

 

[The Cat]

Wow. Just. Wow.

 

[Jaguar]

If Biden can fortify just a little bit more some of the lean D states that would basically be game over

When I drive through what was a heavy Trump county in 2016 and now see a big-ass sign on the highway that reads: "Make America Great Again. Dump Trump." I'm hopeful.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Wow. Just. Wow.

This is so bad that even my local media on the other side of the globe decided to highlight this. But in a way this shows that they don't have much to show and therefore they are trying to play emotional card (even more so than usual).

When I drive through what was a heavy Trump county in 2016 and now see a big-ass sign on the highway that reads: "Make America Great Again. Dump Trump." I'm hopeful.

Well, the 2017 joke goes that "Make America great again" should be the slogan of the guy that comes after Trump. However with COVID that joke really materialized.
But as I said I understand people who voted for him in 2016. Since despite everything 4 years ago it really looked like something will fundamentally change and people decided to take the gamble. However due to an ego, hanging with wrong people, lack of political literacy as well as general focus the whole thing went completely off track. Some people still don't want to admit it since the hope is basically the only thing they have left, but objectively the whole thing went totally wrong. Luckily all of this will be enough of a hole that the country gets genuine reset and turns new page.

 

[Jaguar]

.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

To add about homeschooling: I've been seeing some people get hysterical lately about public schools "indoctrinating" children into Marxism. So, apparently that's part of the fear-mongering as well.

 

[Jonny]

 

[Virtual ghost]

Well, the 2017 joke goes that "Make America great again" should be the slogan of the guy that comes after Trump. However with COVID that joke really materialized.
But as I said I understand people who voted for him in 2016. Since despite everything 4 years ago it really looked like something will fundamentally change and people decided to take the gamble. However due to an ego, hanging with wrong people, lack of political literacy as well as general focus the whole thing went completely off track. Some people still don't want to admit it since the hope is basically the only thing they have left, but objectively the whole thing went totally wrong. Luckily all of this will be enough of a hole that the country gets genuine reset and turns new page.

What I wanted to say with this is that regardless of what happens in November the "Trumpism" will not disappear. Therefore if Biden wins he would do a wise thing if he doesn't alienate the defeated base. With the ultra radical ones that will be hard to do but with plenty of average people that scenario is avoidable. In other words doing this would make governing much easier and it would cover up the internal division that foreign powers can exploit. After all there should be plenty of work for everyone if you seriously plan to rebuild.



I mean I am fixing my property, I have multiple construction sites near by, some local bridges and hospitals are also under repair, we just got the new highest building in the country and we have historic reconciliations between certain local groups. Which in my book are being done almost surely in order to lower the disruptive impact of "undemocratic countries". Therefore I am simply in "rebuilding mood".

 

[ceecee]

To add about homeschooling: I've been seeing some people get hysterical lately about public schools "indoctrinating" children into Marxism. So, apparently that's part of the fear-mongering as well.

I was curious about this sudden appearance of "Marxism" from generally right wing people. In a nutshell - calling someone a "socialist" doesn't have the same scary impact that calling someone a "Marxist" does.

I would also like to point out that the person I asked about this, also has this sign in their yard.

 

[The Cat]

I've begun wondering if Joseph MacCarthy didnt just become a Lich

 

[Abcdenfp]

Dan Rathers thoughts this morning after day 2 of the RNC really struck me. I love Dan Rathers there is so much comfort in his words , his tone and his wisdom

"Chilling.
That is the sentiment that sticks with me this morning as I reflect on day 2 of the Republican National Convention. Even to call it a convention is to miss the point. This was propaganda, the pageantry, power, and symbolism of our federal government - OUR government, we the people - exploited by a president who feels unbound by the constitution in his desperate desire to hold on to power.
A secretary of state from foreign soil pledges sycophantic fealty to his boss with hopes of bolstering his own standing in a political party that has become a personality cult. Immigrants are used as props in the White House by a president who has demonized, restricted, and mistreated even legal immigrants and asylum seekers. Uniformed military personnel are employed in this charade. A first lady, who is an unrepentant birther, mouths teleprompter platitudes in front of an unmasked crowd of true believers during a deadly mismanaged pandemic in a re-imagined rose garden and is heralded by some for her tone.
Meanwhile, in the real America, there is death, desperation, depression, hunger, and heartbreak. Once again a Black family is thrust into the national spotlight by a police shooting. And scenes of violent protests and counterprotests sweep across our national discourse, encouraged by a president who sees personal gain in racial division.
The polls tighten, or do they? What is hitting with the public and what isn't? How are these speeches playing? These are questions for the mechanics of the horse race. They are the comfortable grooves into which campaign reporting usually falls. They are hard to resist. But they do not accurately see the full scope of the moment.
A line of attack on Joe Biden is that he would be a captive of the far left, that he is somehow a socialist. Nevermind that many of the policies of even the more liberal members of the Democratic Party would be considered mainstream center left in most European democracies. But what one doesn't hear enough in our media coverage is the term "far right." Racist and antisemtic authoritarian conspiracy theories are waved off by Republican politicians who know very well what they are about and how they are fueling support for Donald Trump. The trappings of the state are used for naked power politics. Corruption reigns. Foreign dictators are coddled. The rule of law is undermined. Voting is suppressed. This all isn't theoretical. This is happening now. All of it. And in plain sight.
With all of this power, it is rather amazing that Donald Trump isn't assured re-election. It is a testimony to the strength and durability of the majority of Americans, across a diverse political spectrum, who see the threat for what it is. Yes, this is a fight for democracy. But do not underestimate the strength and power of those who stand in opposition. Time and again, America has withstood threats - external and internal - in its uneven march to a more perfect union. And time and time again, courageous and energetic mass movements have signed up for service to this nation's higher ideals. This is a moment of testing, to be sure. It is, as I said, chilling. But it cannot be defeated unless it is clearly seen for what it is.
Know how to get your vote in, and make sure it is counted. See how you can help others have their voices heard at the ballot box. There is so much to despair about, but despair and demoralization is being weaponized by those who seek to cynically hold on to their power. Instead, try to be inspired by a movement of tens of millions across this nation who are determined that this shall not be the definition of America."

 

[anticlimatic]

Trumps got it. I'm no longer even slightly unsure, unless something changes- which likely it will, so I guess we will see, but I can't figure a rational path forward for joe Biden.

The pollsters never figured out what went so wrong for them in 2016, and they never changed. Nobody knows how to poll Trumps base. Nobody outside of the TDS bubble believes the crap the MSM is peddling. The COVID fear mongering has been too played out and is pretty much a political dud (outside of the bubble), most people are just tired of being bored and broke in the flat economy- COVID being mostly to blame for that, but made way worse by most democratic governors who locked down and tanked their own economies. Trump has a good record of generating economic momentum, so that all plays in his favor. BLM support has been falling since a brief peak after George Floyd because, contrary to the crap the MSM is pedaling, most people don't care enough about the mostly made-up cause to continue looking the other way on the current version of the left's perpetually infantile tantrumatic behavior- endless riots.

Biden's entire campaign is "orange man bad," which is not nor ever has been enough to beat the guy. Other than that the platform is as appealing as a shit flavored lollipop- racism, contempt, rape apology, intolerance, anti-independent thought, and left wing authoritarianism.

Just like 2016, the right is quietly simmering in their own indignation (opposite of how the left typically simmers in its own), and the idea that Trump is a wee bit behind, it's going to drive every one of them to the polls on Election Day.

Unfortunately that's going to mean civil war, since both sides have now sewn enough mistrust in the electoral process. The left, once again arrogantly ignoring the fact that they can and likely will be losing, will not be able to accept it again. They are already well rehearsed at rioting and violence. They have "defunding the post office" or some such scapegoat excuse to cling to as a reason for losing, and so cometh the shitstorm. Same if Biden wins- the right will scream mail in voter fraud- but the right has a higher general level of emotional maturity, so I doubt the reaction would be as horrific as how the left typically reacts to things it doesn't like.

Buckle up for a bumpy autumn everyone, and cross your fingers for a Biden Hail Mary somehow. As much as I dislike having authoritarians extorting a country into empowering them via threat of violence, I'm set for life either way, and don't really have much stake in the future of the country. I'm just tired of looking at tantrums. Here, have the Hershey bar. Just get us out of this grocery store already.

 

[Jaq]

I have a legitimate question:
My mother said she read Joe Biden wants to get rid of any homeschooling and schooling outside of public schools. I cannot find an exact quote on it. Does anyone know where he stands on this? Because...as a homeschooled-my-entire-life person I don't like the sound of that. I could understand possibly more regulations on it or changing it to where someone cannot literally "unschool" their child but removing all of it?

Honestly neither of these candidates really has any moral high ground... It is sad we're asking people to vote on the basis it "isn't Trump." But I guess that's where we are now. I'd rather write someone in who might be a reasonable moderate candidate. I don't relate to either party remotely anymore.

It's shaky in some states. I know that in some places you can just say you're home schooling your child, but as far as I know there's nothing really making parents prove they're actually schooling their child. With public school though, that's a time where the parent can not have to worry about their child so that opens up time for them to work at their job, etc.