The Murder of George Floyd & Subsequent Protests/Riots

[DiscoBiscuit]

I'm totally willing. I agree with you that a certain level of unchecked immigration can lead to erosion of social cohesion and trust in a society, and threaten national identity. I disagree that the current level of foreign-born nationals, mostly from Mexico, crosses that threshold.

Perhaps I should say unwilling to compromise as current policy matter. Words are wind.

 

[ceecee]

If you're suggesting that balkinization of the US is acceptable, then I'm going to have to whole-heartedly disagree. It is not in our best interest to fracture our nation, despite how hateful the current political climate has become.

It won't happen on a federal level but it already has at state levels.

 

[Jonny]

Perhaps I should say unwilling to compromise as current policy matter. Words are wind.

Compromise on what? Why don't you just ask me questions rather than presupposing my position?

If you don't want to talk about it, that's OK, but don't suggest that I'm somehow unwilling.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

It won't happen on a federal level but it already has at state levels.

You're not wrong. Although the 50 states were designed to be laboratories of democracy each choosing different paths.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Compromise on what? Why don't you just ask me questions rather than presupposing my position?

If you don't want to talk about it, that's OK, but don't suggest that I'm somehow unwilling.

Limit immigration until we have halved the percentage of foreign born among the populace. End chain migration. Limit visas. Continue to freeze out China on 5g and pressure aggressively on IP theft. Strictly enforce E-verify for employers.

 

[Jonny]

Limit immigration until we have halved the percentage of foreign born among the populace. End chain migration. Limit visas. Continue to freeze out China on 5g and pressure aggressively on IP theft. Strictly enforce E-verify for employers.

Limit immigration until we have halved the percentage of foreign born among the populace.

Could you elaborate on this? Why half? Is there a body of evidence you have that talks about the consequences of various levels of foreign-born?

End chain migration.

What do you mean by this? What law would change?

Limit visas.

By how much? From where?

Continue to freeze out China on 5g and pressure aggressively on IP theft.

Yes.

Strictly enforce E-verify for employers.

I don't think there's anything wrong with this. The current system is a workaround because so much migrant labor from Mexico is used for agriculture. If we strictly enforced E-verify, those companies would push for increased legal immigration from Mexico to fill the need.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Ive elaborated as much as Im going to. Im going back to my lawn chair, beer and ammo.

Watch the show its gonna be a hell of a thing.

 

[FemMecha]

The only way out is through. I no longer see a viable pathway for compromise. I would prefer if things weren't as shitty as they are, but that hope doesnt preclude me from preparing for the worst. You can yell at a train to stop before hitting a stuck bus on the tracks, but you can't rewrite the laws of physics to make the train stop before it does.

My preferences will not alter our course, at some point one must make peace with things and plan accordingly. If you cant drive around a forest fire it makes sense to pass through it as quickly as possible.

How do you prepare? What specifically does it mean to pass through it? Are you planning to participate in the violence or are you planning to not participate in violence?

 

[Red Herring]

 

[ceecee]

Sounds about white.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Moved this post to the "Taste of Blood" thread because it fits better there.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Moved this post to the "Taste of Blood" thread because it fits better there.

I'm responding here regardless. (I'm lazy).

Have you seen any boogaloos about? Christian Picciolini - that guy who was once white supremacist, but now he's an activist against it - lives close to the city and he posted not long ago about seeing several in a gun store he went to. I don't remember where in the city it was, but it was in Chicago. This was a day or two after the first riots broke out.

 

[Coriolis]

Limit immigration until we have halved the percentage of foreign born among the populace.

Could you elaborate on this? Why half? Is there a body of evidence you have that talks about the consequences of various levels of foreign-born?

I'm curious about this one, too, especially as at one point we all were "foreign born" except the native Americans. Perhaps they should have enacted such a policy.

End chain migration.

What do you mean by this? What law would change?

From what I understand, it has something to do with immigrants having family members join them from overseas, e.g. a father comes here, establishes himself, then sends for his wife and child. I suppose the alternative is that all immigrants come here alone, with no support structure waiting for them to help them get on their feet and acclimatize. Or, that families always come here together, despite the often prohibitive costs.

Limit visas.

By how much? From where?

I would support targeting visas toward immigrants who have something to contribute. The one thing I was hoping Trump would do - limit immigration to take STEM jobs, while encouraging US citizens to pursue STEM fields so we don't need so many immigrants - he hasn't done. I also support allowing people, especially children, to stay if they have established themselves here and are productive members of society. No one gains by expelling them at this point.

Continue to freeze out China on 5g and pressure aggressively on IP theft.[/B]

Yes.

Sure. Trump has been far too lenient toward China - and Russia, ,but that's another story.

Strictly enforce E-verify for employers.[/B]

I don't think there's anything wrong with this. The current system is a workaround because so much migrant labor from Mexico is used for agriculture. If we strictly enforced E-verify, those companies would push for increased legal immigration from Mexico to fill the need.

Not sure what E-verify is, but if it is a way for employers to verify that someone is eligible to work in the US, I am in favor of it. The missing link in combating illegal immigration is to crack down on the employers that offer these people jobs. If they know they won't be able to find work, they are much less likely to come if economic betterment is their main goal. In tandem with this, we should implement a guest worker program to admit immigrants willing to take on especially those jobs that most Americans are unwilling to do, in agriculture, hospitality, manual labor, etc.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I'm responding here regardless. (I'm lazy).

Have you seen any boogaloos about? Christian Picciolini - that guy who was once white supremacist, but now he's an activist against it - lives close to the city and he posted not long ago about seeing several in a gun store he went to. I don't remember where in the city it was, but it was in Chicago. This was a day or two after the first riots broke out.

I haven't personally, no, but it's still something I'm concerned about.

 

[Jaguar]

Update:
No One Inside After Standoff at Woodland Hills Apartment Complex Following Reported Shooting Near Pro-Trump Rally – NBC Los Angeles

Officers were investigating a shots fired call that came in around 11:30 a.m. in the 20600 block of Ventura Boulevard, according to the Los Angeles Police Department.

A large caravan of cars in a pro-Trump rally was lined up on Ventura Boulevard when a woman who was not participating in the rally, driving past the rally, heard what sounded like gunshots and immediately noticed her tire was flat, the LAPD said.

I guess it sounded more dramatic for some to claim a shooter was firing at Trump supporters.

 

[Lark]

Update:
No One Inside After Standoff at Woodland Hills Apartment Complex Following Reported Shooting Near Pro-Trump Rally – NBC Los Angeles




I guess it sounded more dramatic for some to claim a shooter was firing at Trump supporters.

Which I think tells you a lot about these people, consider Disco's posts too, or any of the QAnon stuff, its like a bunch of kids trying to infuse their boring day to day with some sort of excitement imagining they're being stalked by bogeymen or something.

I guarantee you that indifference and business as usual is going to prove much, much more lethal to these people than their imagined liberal insurgency or whatever the damn hell it is they're waiting on that never, ever arrives.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Trump declines to condemn supporter accused of murder: "He was trying to get away"

"He was trying to get away from them, it looks like it. He fell and then they very violently attacked him."

The Kenosha mayor, governor, and lt. governor of Wisconsin have all asked Trump not to visit, saying they think it will make matters worse. Trump decided to visit anyway (tomorrow) and then released this statement. He's clearly baiting, to distill rioting from the protesting. The man is an absolute shit stain of a human being. I hope to God they don't take the bait.

 

[Jaguar]

*scribbles 'absolute shit stain of a human being' on pad for later use*

 

[Tomb1]

Video of the execution of a Trump supporter.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1299983990351257600

There will only be more blood.

Shooter ID'd as Michael Reinoehl

My .44 makes that gun sound and kick like a bb gun (probably some piece of crap .32). Guy even walked away after being hit in the chest twice...

 

[Jonny]

On May 23, 2017 I sent the following e-mail to my mother and aunt, both of whom are Trump supporters:

From: Jonny
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 1:11 PM
To: M & A
Subject: Some prophetic words for you about our political environment today


Below is an excerpt from a 2010 interview with Noam Chomsky, Professor Emeritus at MIT. He’s a renowned intellectual and political scholar, and has a body of work spanning our lifetimes (so nobody can say he lacks the experience to opine on the problems facing our country and the world). In this interview he’s discussing the emerging political climate and growing discontent as a result of rising inequality and lack of effective response from those in power. My concerns have never been rooted with Trump himself, but in what his election and the current trajectory of our politics says about us as a people. Old habits die hard, and humanity is nothing if not habitual.

It [the political climate in the United States] is very similar to late Weimar Germany. The parallels are striking. There was also tremendous disillusionment with the parliamentary system. The most striking fact about Weimar was not that the Nazis managed to destroy the Social Democrats and the Communists but that the traditional parties, the Conservative and Liberal parties, were hated and disappeared. It left a vacuum which the Nazis very cleverly and intelligently managed to take over.

The United States is extremely lucky that no honest, charismatic figure has arisen. Every charismatic figure is such an obvious crook that he destroys himself, like McCarthy or Nixon or the evangelist preachers. If somebody comes along who is charismatic and honest this country is in real trouble because of the frustration, disillusionment, the justified anger and the absence of any coherent response. What are people supposed to think if someone says ‘I have got an answer, we have an enemy’? There it was the Jews. Here it will be the illegal immigrants and the blacks. We will be told that white males are a persecuted minority. We will be told we have to defend ourselves and the honor of the nation. Military force will be exalted. People will be beaten up. This could become an overwhelming force. And if it happens it will be more dangerous than Germany. The United States is the world power. Germany was powerful but had more powerful antagonists. I don’t think all this is very far away. If the polls are accurate it is not the Republicans but the right-wing Republicans, the crazed Republicans, who will sweep the next election.

I have never seen anything like this in my lifetime. I am old enough to remember the 1930s. My whole family was unemployed. There were far more desperate conditions than today. But it was hopeful. People had hope. The CIO was organizing. No one wants to say it anymore but the Communist Party was the spearhead for labor and civil rights organizing. Even things like giving my unemployed seamstress aunt a week in the country. It was a life. There is nothing like that now. The mood of the country is frightening. The level of anger, frustration and hatred of institutions is not organized in a constructive way. It is going off into self-destructive fantasies.

I listen to talk radio. I don’t want to hear Rush Limbaugh. I want to hear the people calling in. They are like [suicide pilot] Joe Stack. What is happening to me? I have done all the right things. I am a God-fearing Christian. I work hard for my family. I have a gun. I believe in the values of the country and my life is collapsing.​

You two both talked about how the growing welfare state is responsible for many of our woes. That proliferating immigrants, both illegal and legal, are sucking away your money and jobs. I contend this is false, and that our problems lie in more fundamental issues with the distribution of wealth and, more importantly, opportunities to climb out of poverty… to achieve the “American Dream.” There’s a hopelessness. It’s chronic. It’s endemic.

A political philosophy grounded in hate and blame, in caricaturizing and demeaning a group of people as less intelligent or productive or moral, won’t solve the problems we face.
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