[MBTI General] The Longstanding Debate

[therationaledge]

I just want to start this off with this awesome smiley...anyway.

I am, obviously, an INTP. My friend is an ENFP, and my girlfriend is an ISFJ, and both of them vehemetly argue this point against me all the time.
They say I shouldn't try to "figure People out" by using one conversation or just a few clues. I say that if I CAN, I SHOULD.

You see, I just use the way I think about everything, the way I solve everything, and apply it to human interaction. This is how I manipulated social situations, and with no help other than from a personal epiphany realized exactly what I needed to do to do to become "popular" (believe me though, I gave it up, and quick, I was less happy than before) and how to get girls that were attractive to date me, to one I am now engaged.

I pretty much realized that humans have rules, like everything else, and I pick up on them quick. I don't think people like this because they don't want to think they can be figured out.

My friend, for example, lets call him ENFP...lol. He often will be like, "This girl I know is cool." And then I will meet her...and can tell instantly what kind of girl she is. From her truck, to the inside of it, to how much she talked, to the music she listend to and even her clothes.
I find that people WANT to tell you something about them by thier clothes, even if that something is sometimes "I DON'T want to tell you something from my clothes"

I got that vibe from her, which is my way of figuring out she was stupid and other things. My friend, however, wouldnt listen to me. Saying that she was still cool.
This is how things turned out.

She told us she would give us a ride home from work, we both didnt have liccenses and worked the same place, but before then went to a chinese resteraunt and got completelly smashed. Stole alchohol, and bragged abotu how she cheated on her husband a bunch because he was "bad at it"

Also would show up to work an hour hours late, which is no big deal, but she was giving us rides (its was a predicament, i had no other choice) . And would sometimes just not come after saying she would.
WOuld tell my friend to hold onto the wheel while she snorted drugs on a cd while driving.

I quickly found a diff way to work. My friend didnt.
The only time he did was when she stopped giving him rides, then he thought she was unsavory.

I do this alot, i figure people out, and I KNOW i can because ive been doing it for years. I think its also because I have no authority behind me, and also people want to delude themselves.

By the way, Im not claiming to be psychic or anything, i dont figure out peoples hopes and dreams or what they WANT to do or WANT to be. I figure out what they DO, what they WILL do.

SO!

Why do you think people delude themselves/ Do you think its possible to figure people out?

 

[entropie]

I think that's pure Ti business to figure people out. One should just keep an open mind over the course of his life, otherwise one is prone to develop prejudice. The thing about personality is that it is dynamic and evolves over the centuries taking on new faces, while the basic faculties seem to persist.

I quitted to figure people out, though I still do it for myself, I quitted talking with them about it.

 

[thisGuy]

I quitted to figure people out, though I still do it for myself, I quitted talking with them about it.

i think that might be a good idea...

 

[substitute]

I say it's possible to figure out a lot about a person from one meeting, but to get the full picture you'd have to use all the functions to their maximum, otherwise you're missing information and possible interpretations of that info.

So whilst it's theoretically possible, I'd say that for most people it's unwise. There ain't much my Ne misses, but I've still been wrong about people now and again.

(just now and again, the exceptions that prove the rule )

 

[therationaledge]

I say it's possible to figure out a lot about a person from one meeting, but to get the full picture you'd have to use all the functions to their maximum, otherwise you're missing information and possible interpretations of that info.

So whilst it's theoretically possible, I'd say that for most people it's unwise. There ain't much my Ne misses, but I've still been wrong about people now and again.

(just now and again, the exceptions that prove the rule )

Right, I have been off about people, but only once was it bad...and that was REALLY off. But I also had personaly stake in it so...probably shouldnt have trusted myself.
But I mean, I use this to "call it" about people since I was in Grade School, and its never failed me except for one time, and I have told people things, and they dont believe me.

So either they are stupid, or know Im probably right and dont want to admit it for some reason. LIke my friend wanting to fornicate with aforementioned psycho girl.

 

[substitute]

Right, I have been off about people, but only once was it bad...and that was REALLY off. But I also had personaly stake in it so...probably shouldnt have trusted myself.
But I mean, I use this to "call it" about people since I was in Grade School, and its never failed me except for one time, and I have told people things, and they dont believe me.

So either they are stupid, or know Im probably right and dont want to admit it for some reason. LIke my friend wanting to fornicate with aforementioned psycho girl.

Or you've been wrong about other people, but just don't realize it yet.

 

[therationaledge]

Or you've been wrong about other people, but just don't realize it yet.

There is always the chance, but generally I dont actually consider it "called" if I don't see how they act most of the time. And the amount of times I HAVE "called it" logically lead me to trust in my ability to pick up on things.

I mean, its not that unbelievable is it? Aren't there people who have amazing deductive abilities? (Not counting fictional characters)

Besides, the way I like to put it is I don't figure someones hopes and dreams and aspiritions. I figure what they actually do. Thier Mask v.s. their Face. But if you wear a Mask for years and dont take it off...see what I'm saying
I figure out the logical thing to figure out. What someones does and will do.

I'm not saying I can read minds or do anything out of the ordinary, I just know which things to pick up on, and what they mean.

 

[Costrin]

Sounds fine to me.

 

[Lady_X]

I just want to start this off with this awesome smiley...anyway.

I am, obviously, an INTP. My friend is an ENFP, and my girlfriend is an ISFJ, and both of them vehemetly argue this point against me all the time.
They say I shouldn't try to "figure People out" by using one conversation or just a few clues. I say that if I CAN, I SHOULD.

You see, I just use the way I think about everything, the way I solve everything, and apply it to human interaction. This is how I manipulated social situations, and with no help other than from a personal epiphany realized exactly what I needed to do to do to become "popular" (believe me though, I gave it up, and quick, I was less happy than before) and how to get girls that were attractive to date me, to one I am now engaged.

I pretty much realized that humans have rules, like everything else, and I pick up on them quick. I don't think people like this because they don't want to think they can be figured out.

My friend, for example, lets call him ENFP...lol. He often will be like, "This girl I know is cool." And then I will meet her...and can tell instantly what kind of girl she is. From her truck, to the inside of it, to how much she talked, to the music she listend to and even her clothes.
I find that people WANT to tell you something about them by thier clothes, even if that something is sometimes "I DON'T want to tell you something from my clothes"

I got that vibe from her, which is my way of figuring out she was stupid and other things. My friend, however, wouldnt listen to me. Saying that she was still cool.
This is how things turned out.

She told us she would give us a ride home from work, we both didnt have liccenses and worked the same place, but before then went to a chinese resteraunt and got completelly smashed. Stole alchohol, and bragged abotu how she cheated on her husband a bunch because he was "bad at it"

Also would show up to work an hour hours late, which is no big deal, but she was giving us rides (its was a predicament, i had no other choice) . And would sometimes just not come after saying she would.
WOuld tell my friend to hold onto the wheel while she snorted drugs on a cd while driving.

I quickly found a diff way to work. My friend didnt.
The only time he did was when she stopped giving him rides, then he thought she was unsavory.

I do this alot, i figure people out, and I KNOW i can because ive been doing it for years. I think its also because I have no authority behind me, and also people want to delude themselves.

By the way, Im not claiming to be psychic or anything, i dont figure out peoples hopes and dreams or what they WANT to do or WANT to be. I figure out what they DO, what they WILL do.

SO!

Why do you think people delude themselves/ Do you think its possible to figure people out?

well...i think maybe the person you haven't figured out is your enfp friend and the fact that he likely judges very different things then you do...and to him the only unacceptable thing was how she treated him...hence only changing his opinion once she proved herself untrustworthy...to him.

and...i don't think people delude themselves. i just think they value different things then you do.

 

[therationaledge]

well...i think maybe the person you haven't figured out is your enfp friend and the fact that he likely judges very different things then you do...and to him the only unacceptable thing was how she treated him...hence only changing his opinion once she proved herself untrustworthy...to him.

and...i don't think people delude themselves. i just think they value different things then you do.

Lol. I know it might have seemed like that. But trust me, if I have ANYONE figured out it is good ole' ENFP.

He wants to give everyone a chance, regardless of what they do. If it is a male, it is because he looks up to that person. Since he has been estranged by his father AND grandfather it is not unreasonable to think he just wants that kind of connection. They also are almost always overdomineering a**holes, and so is are his father and grandfather.
If it is a girl, it is because he is a hopeless romantic who has ALWAYS dated those kinds of girls (in my original post) and had never had a healthy relationship. Plus, he should see, if person treats everyone a certain way, they will treat HIM a certain way.

If he was thinking logically, he wouldnt go for the two types of people that have hurt him the most. My mother was...unsavory. So I found a mother figure that was DIFFERENT than her.

He has put himself into a self made hell of repitition, and all he would need to climb out of the pit is to think logically for a moment.

I mean, he sees what he wants, he knows what he is doing wrong, and he knows what to do, but cannot seem to find a way to put them all together, and he wonders why his life sucks.

Yeah, I've got him called, I just don't agree.

 

[entropie]

There is always the chance, but generally I dont actually consider it "called" if I don't see how they act most of the time. And the amount of times I HAVE "called it" logically lead me to trust in my ability to pick up on things.

I mean, its not that unbelievable is it? Aren't there people who have amazing deductive abilities? (Not counting fictional characters)

Besides, the way I like to put it is I don't figure someones hopes and dreams and aspiritions. I figure what they actually do. Thier Mask v.s. their Face. But if you wear a Mask for years and dont take it off...see what I'm saying
I figure out the logical thing to figure out. What someones does and will do.

I'm not saying I can read minds or do anything out of the ordinary, I just know which things to pick up on, and what they mean.

Do not make this debate here too long though, You are revealing every single one of the entp secrets

 

[Lady_X]

oh well yeah that sucks...he's just a lil screwed up then and sounds like he should listen to ya.

 

[therationaledge]

Do not make this debate here too long though, You are revealing every single one of the entp secrets

Drat. And here I was quite positive I had never known such secrets.

In the words of a great sage. "D'OH"

Anyway, I think this quote sums it up...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"How in the world did you deduce that?" I asked.

"Deduce what?" said he, petulantly.

"Why, that he was a retired sergeant of Marines."

"I have no time for trifles," he answered, brusquely; then with a smile, "Excuse my rudeness. You broke the thread of my thoughts; but perhaps it is as well. So you actually were not able to see that that man was a sergeant of Marines?"

"No, indeed."

"It was easier to know it than to explain why I knew it. If you were asked to prove that two and two made four, you might find some difficulty, and yet you are quite sure of the fact. Even across the street I could see a great blue anchor tattooed on the back of the fellow's hand. That smacked of the sea. He had a military carriage, however, and regulation side whiskers. There we have the marine. He was a man with some amount of self-importance and a certain air of command. You must have observed the way in which he held his head and swung his cane. A steady, respectable, middle-aged man, too, on the face of him -- all facts which led me to believe that he had been a sergeant."

 

[CJ99]

the rationaledge does it work with other NTs?

I can see what your doing as i do it myself but i don't normally go so indepth.

 

[squibbles]

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to figure people out. It helps us to better relate to others and see where they're coming from.

The problem comes when we judge people from the start and then are unwilling to revise our opinions and continue to treat someone as what they are not.

 

[entropie]

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to figure people out. It helps us to better relate to others and see where they're coming from.

The problem comes when we judge people from the start and then are unwilling to revise our opinions and continue to treat someone as what they are not.

Ya but the more you dive into typing shit the more your brain gets enceased in the fire -.-

 

[kyuuei]

In regards to Squibbles post. I think this sums it up well. I see nothing wrong with what you're doing, just err on the side of caution when it comes to applying those things you discover when you're 'figuring' someone out.

I think the ENFP is concerned because you may sound a lot more deliberate and black-and-white about the way you decide things. ENFPs have a bad habit of seeing the best in people even though signs are showing there's clearly not a lot to see.. There's a sort of optimism there that never dies no matter how many times it's abused.

What you see as an initial impression and run with it until you're proven differently, ENFP sounds like the sort of person that puts little thought into the current actions and clues and runs with what's applied to them as it's applied to them. So long as you're capable of being proven differently, you're fine in the way you're doing things. There's nothing wrong with trying to get a foundation to stand on with the people around you.

I think ENFPs tend to want to be given the benefit of the doubt no matter what, the way they do for others. So.. when you're always displaying this 'judgemental' way, he could take it as 'Is this the way you're treating me too? What if I had met you a year ago when I wasn't so awesome?' sort of thing.

Just my initial impressions and thoughts on the matter based on the information provided.