The ESFP "stupid" myth.

[Suzanne]

I found this site while googling ESFP and registered so I could comment on this thread.

I'm clearly an ESFP in real life, have in the past belonged to the IQ clubs Mensa and Intertel (top 2% and top 1%), and so far in college I've received straight A's (including in the so-called "N" classes such as English lit., philosophy, logic and math). My ex-boyfriend is clearly an ESTP and has a masters in civil engineering from Stanford University. Even though neither of us has the special N that seems to be needed for intelligence, we've managed to stumble through both our N and S classes.

My husband is an INTJ, has a B.S. in math, and he turns to me for logic issues. I was the top student out of a class of 30 in my college logic class. And btw, that doesn't automatically mean I'm an NT, it means I prefer ESFP but have a higher IQ, per tests, than my husband. He has gifts stronger than mine in other areas, including carrying projects through to completion.

Upon meeting me, the first impression is of someone bouncy, emotional, silly, always on the go -- the typical ESFP. It doesn't mean I'm not intelligent, it only means I don't use intelligence as my preferred way of dealing with the world -- I use Se and Fi, with the IQ-type of intelligence a secondary preference. I wonder how many so-called non-intelligent ESFPs are in the same situation I'm in -- showing one side, having the other hidden.

Here's one example of a weakness... Though I can understand everything said, I can't, on my own, go as deeply into ideas as some N's when it comes to such subjects as English lit. I can keep up with the best when it comes to the precise meaning of a piece of literature, but that's it, after a few pages I've said what needs to be said and have trouble picking up on some of the nuances.

I don't know what the average IQ is of ESFPs, but to look at them as stupid until proven intelligent is insulting to potentially millions of people.

Anyway, nice to meet everyone -- or almost everyone.

 

[ayoitsStepho]

i agree 100%
your personality doesnt reflect your intelegence. People who believe that are highly mistaken.

 

[Lex Talionis]

Einstein - ESFP


/thread

Einstein - INTP

ESFP? What a joke...

 

[Lex Talionis]

I found this site while googling ESFP and registered so I could comment on this thread.

I'm clearly an ESFP in real life, have in the past belonged to the IQ clubs Mensa and Intertel (top 2% and top 1%), and so far in college I've received straight A's (including in the so-called "N" classes such as English lit., philosophy, logic and math). My ex-boyfriend is clearly an ESTP and has a masters in civil engineering from Stanford University. Even though neither of us has the special N that seems to be needed for intelligence, we've managed to stumble through both our N and S classes.

Upon meeting me, the first impression is of someone bouncy, emotional, silly, always on the go -- the typical ESFP. It doesn't mean I'm not intelligent, it only means I don't use intelligence as my preferred way of dealing with the world -- I use Se and Fi, with the IQ-type of intelligence a secondary preference. I wonder how many so-called non-intelligent ESFPs are in the same situation I'm in -- showing one side, having the other hidden.

Here's one example of a weakness... Though I can understand everything said, I can't, on my own, go as deeply into ideas as some N's when it comes to such subjects as English lit. I can keep up with the best when it comes to the precise meaning of a piece of literature, but that's it, after a few pages I've said what needs to be said and have trouble picking up on some of the nuances.

I don't know what the average IQ is of ESFPs, but to look at them as stupid until proven intelligent is insulting to potentially millions of people.

Anyway, nice to meet everyone -- or almost everyone.

Nice anecdotal evidence. Your ESFP "logic" is truly shining here.

I'll say it one more time: your ESFP side is not helping you in these subjects. It's more likely that you have a well developed NT. Do you score over 80% on all of your preferences?

I find that SF types (just like NF types) have a difficult time orienting themselves, generally due to the fact that they don't know how to consider anything objectively.

My husband is an INTJ, has a B.S. in math, and he turns to me for logic issues. I was the top student out of a class of 30 in my college logic class. And btw, that doesn't automatically mean I'm an NT, it means I prefer ESFP but have a higher IQ, per tests, than my husband. He has gifts stronger than mine in other areas, including carrying projects through to completion.

Because an INTJ turns to you to bounce off his logical queries, it means that you're the superior logician? The method of dialectics was invented for this very reason.

This is too much...

 

[Lex Talionis]

i agree 100%
your personality doesnt reflect your intelegence. People who believe that are highly mistaken.

Personality may not affect your raw intelligence (i.e. processing power), but it can certainly influence your behavior and application of this intelligence (i.e. command prompt.)

It's just common sense, to be honest. In fact, I believe that personality is almost equal with intelligence when it comes to real world accomplishment.

An NT with an IQ of 140 will be more suitable for abstract theorems than an SF with the same IQ.

Read "Personality and Intelligence" by Robert J. Sternberg.

 

[NewEra]

Nice anecdotal evidence. Your ESFP "logic" is truly shining here.

I'll say it one more time: your ESFP side is not helping you in these subjects. It's more likely that you have a well developed NT. Do you score over 80% on all of your preferences?

I find that SF types (just like NF types) have a difficult time orienting themselves, generally due to the fact that they don't know how to consider anything objectively.

I think her main point was to prove that ESFPs can be intelligent, and from her post, she did a good job in showing that.

 

[BlueinGreen]

When I grow up I want to be an INTJ so I can be just like Lex Talionis and not an icky, stupid ESFP.

 

[Jeffster]

When I grow up I want to be an INTJ so I can be just like Lex Talionis and not an icky, stupid ESFP.

Yes, we all strive to reach that perfect Talionus pinnacle, alas, few of us if any ever reach it.

 

[Ginkgo]

I think her main point was to prove that ESFPs can be intelligent, and from her post, she did a good job in showing that.

Some INTJs like Lex are too socially subjective to pick up on these kinds of things.

 

[Valuable_Money]

I for one find this thread to be both enlightening and irritating.


Lets end this fantastically horrible game, eh?

 

[Jaguar]

Say hello to my little friend.

 

[BlackCat]

I find that SF types (just like NF types) have a difficult time orienting themselves, generally due to the fact that they don't know how to consider anything objectively.

I really do think that sometimes you're just trolling. Honestly. Do you have anything to back this up? A book written by some guy that looks down on SFs just like you do? One ESFP that picked on you in high school that you "objectively" base every SF off of?

Please.

 

[Lex Talionis]

I really do think that sometimes you're just trolling. Honestly. Do you have anything to back this up? A book written by some guy that looks down on SFs just like you do? One ESFP that picked on you in high school that you "objectively" base every SF off of?

Please.

I'm trolling because I'm stating facts and/or opinions which you dislike?

Are you serious?

I have no problem with SFs, and find them quite agreeable in their own respects. In this case I'm addressing ESFPs, since that's who the thread is about, but ISFPs are not exactly the same, and neither are the SFJs. I'm stating the shared properties of the SF group, not my own feelings on the matter.

 

[BlackCat]

When I saw your response you didn't put NFs as well... But YES I'm inclined to agree that a lot of Fs don't consider anything objectively, but lots of Fs also try to be objective and work toward that... so yeah.

 

[Litvyak]

I'm trolling because I'm stating facts and/or opinions which you dislike?

Ugh, what a disgrace to our kind... >_>
Can I switch types please?

 

[Laurie]

Upon meeting me, the first impression is of someone bouncy, emotional, silly, always on the go -- the typical ESFP. It doesn't mean I'm not intelligent, it only means I don't use intelligence as my preferred way of dealing with the world -- I use Se and Fi, with the IQ-type of intelligence a secondary preference. I wonder how many so-called non-intelligent ESFPs are in the same situation I'm in -- showing one side, having the other hidden.

 

[Jaguar]

Ugh, what a disgrace to our kind... >_>
Can I switch types please?

I don't blame you.
That person's posts are pathetic.

 

[Suzanne]

Nice anecdotal evidence. Your ESFP "logic" is truly shining here.

I'll say it one more time: your ESFP side is not helping you in these subjects. It's more likely that you have a well developed NT. Do you score over 80% on all of your preferences?

Since you implied that *all* ESFPs are not as intellectually bright as NTs, I needed just one example to prove you wrong. Normally I wouldn't use such weak evidence to prove anything, but the logic of it is perfect for your non-NT-like supposed facts about intelligence.

I do have a well-developed NT, do score close to the middle of ESF, but I'm still an SF, no doubt about it. Unless you've done extensive research in this area, you have no idea if S, or even F, are helping. One IQ test I took was the normal logic/math/vocabulary type, the other started with a story read to the group, followed by "this pattern is to this pattern as this pattern is to _____," made up entirely of complex pictures, and ending with questions about the story. I scored the same on both tests, but it's possible the second test would have captured more of an SF's intelligence without being intellectually "less" in any way. With the former type of IQ test, it's possible an SF could pull up their vocabulary score by having done extensive reading and an NT could score higher on the logic/math section.

I changed my AV to a picture of an ESFP, complete with cap, graduating from college.

 

[Lex Talionis]

Since you implied that *all* ESFPs are not as intellectually bright as NTs, I needed just one example to prove you wrong. Normally I wouldn't use such weak evidence to prove anything, but the logic of it is perfect for your non-NT-like supposed facts about intelligence.

I have never claimed that all NTs are more intelligent than all SFs. What I have asserted - and I stand by this firmly - is that NT is more suitable for classical intelligence than SF, which is especially true for ESFPs. The title of this thread is the "ESFP "stupid" myth," and my only attempt was to prove that it wasn't a "myth" but was instead founded on solid evidence.

How are my facts "supposed"? They are entirely derived from observation and inference. Stating that my facts are "supposed" because you dislike them is "non-NT-like."

I do have a well-developed NT, do score close to the middle of ESF, but I'm still an SF, no doubt about it.

Thank you for proving my point.

Unless you've done extensive research in this area, you have no idea if S, or even F, are helping.

They generally aren't helping. S can help you in terms of core knowledge and perhaps in visuospatial intelligence, but what can F do?

This is not to say that all F types are "stupid," only to make it a point that F is not suitable for core reasoning and understanding.

One IQ test I took was the normal logic/math/vocabulary type, the other started with a story read to the group, followed by "this pattern is to this pattern as this pattern is to _____," made up entirely of complex pictures, and ending with questions about the story. I scored the same on both tests, but it's possible the second test would have captured more of an SF's intelligence without being intellectually "less" in any way. With the former type of IQ test, it's possible an SF could pull up their vocabulary score by having done extensive reading and an NT could score higher on the logic/math section.

Take the Raven's Progressive Matrices test, it is the most effective in measuring abstract reasoning.

 

[01011010]

I'm clearly an ESFP in real life, have in the past belonged to the IQ clubs Mensa and Intertel (top 2% and top 1%), and so far in college I've received straight A's (including in the so-called "N" classes such as English lit., philosophy, logic and math).

I've been telling jokers SFs are smart for awhile. They don't care.