The ESFP "stupid" myth.

[Night]

I was not affronted by anything you said.
One of the things I do on this forum is try to learn more about the different types and how they communicate.
Your post was out of character for an ESFJ.

OH! LOL! What you said about NTJs being dull!
Meh. What do I care about that?
Like you said, it's not empirical.
I am only slightly above average intelligence myself,
yet I am clever enough to get along very well in life.
After all, I was clever enough to figure out you are not an ESFJ.

Forgive my choice of words - I was speaking gently.

INTJs are usually highly intelligent - you certainly prove this observation valid.

Take care!

 

[The Ü™]

OP: I'm inclined to believe that Homer Simpson is an underdeveloped ISTJ or Si dominant. Personality Page pretty much nails Homer in the ISTJ personal development page.

ISTJ Potential Problem Areas

• Excessive love of food and drink
• Lack of interest in other people, or in relating to them
• Occasional inappropriate emotional displays
• General selfish "look after oneself" tendencies
• Uses judgement to dismiss other's opinions and perspectives, before really understanding them
• May judge others rather than themselves
• May look at external ideas and people with the primary purpose of finding fault
• May become slave to their routine and "by the book" ways of doing things, to the point that any deviation is completely unacceptable
• May have difficulty communicating their thoughts and feelings to anyone

 

[substitute]

My eldest sister is ESFP. I have never known anyone to have greater or more indepth knowledge of Victorian London and the Jack the Ripper case than she does.

She underachieved in school, but not due to lack of intelligence - more due to lack of interest in the things school offered her as means of applying her intelligence. I sympathize...

 

[Nocapszy]

MBTI has little in common with legitimate empiricism.

Personality is organic to the stimuli offered within one's environment and draws few falsifiable parallels with intelligence.

Some of the dullest individuals I've encountered were NTJs.

You're not really an ESFJ, are you.

Case in point. INtJ mom instantly recognized that what Night had to offer was not typical of an ESFJ. I know him to be of another persuasion.

I agree with most of what Night says as well, but I'd like to tack on to part of it.

MBTI has little in common with legitimate empiricism.

I think that's probably due to the rigidity of function definitions (or worse, the dichotomies...). There's not enough stress on the importance of examining the functions as they work with the other functions. If there were, I suspect theory would be more inclined to affix itself to empirical observation.

 

[proteanmix]

Yay! A new word!

Why do I love it so much when you use this smiley?

 

[TickTock]

I've noticed a trend in television sitcoms for "stupid" characters to be ESFPs.
Notably, Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin, Joey Tribbiani and Kelly Bundy.

Obviously this a stereotype unfounded in reality, but what is it about ESFPs that makes Hollywood writers make them stupid characters, or alternatively make stupid characters into ESFPs?

This is moot. That's hardly a trend. Peter Griffin is a rip of Homer, so there are a few examples. Why? It suits the story.

You could equally have the same rant about any other type and throw up a few examples it means nothing.

 

[INTJMom]

...
There's not enough stress on the importance of examining the functions as they work with the other functions. If there were, I suspect theory would be more inclined to affix itself to empirical observation.

I agree.
I guess that's where the profiles of the types come into play, and would be of greater service if they paid more attention to that aspect.

 

[Nocapszy]

I agree.
I guess that's where the profiles of the types come into play, and would be of greater service if they paid more attention to that aspect.

I almost said exactly that.

 

[runvardh]

I know two ESFPs who are highly intelligent and one who is more of an easy chew toy. Of the two smart ones, one has been in jail and the other would have went to jail had she not been female. The less than brilliant one is a wonderful young man of acceptable moral behaviour. Figure that out. ^_^

 

[The Ü™]

I know two ESFPs who are highly intelligent and one who is more of an easy chew toy. Of the two smart ones, one has been in jail and the other would have went to jail had she not been female. The less than brilliant one is a wonderful young man of acceptable moral behaviour. Figure that out. ^_^

Do you know what this means? It means typewatching has become pointless! :horor:

 

[MetalWounds]

I have a good ESFP friend that, while I would say he is of average/slightly above average intelligence, lacks the cognitive process indicative of higher thought. He's the type to know many stray facts, but lacks the raw processing power.

 

[Mycroft]

Some of the dullest individuals I've encountered were NTJs.

What nature of things did these individuals do to make you think that of them?

Among the XNTJs I've known have been individuals abrasive and inconsiderate, hypocritical, even narrow-minded and ignorant, but I've never known one who was unintelligent.

 

[The Ü™]

"Dullness" is in the eye of the beholder, though. Hardcore Sensors find abstract issues (and thus abstract thinkers) to be hopelessly dull and boring. Likewise, Intuitors find more detail-oriented tasks dull and boring. (And personally, tasks that require extensive attention to detail give me headaches.)

And let's face it, a person with a preference for abstract thought can have interests of abstract natures that are still considered dull.

 

[Gabe]

What are you talking about?

The producers aren't writing characters based on MBTI. It comes from interaction with people. Characters are based on co-workers, colleagues, friends, enemies (maybe all hollywood producers, by some coincidence hate people who happen to be ESFP), etc. If ESFPs are stupid in real life, they're going to be portrayed as stupid on TV, because the producers know that most people want down to earth shows.

The Office comes to mind; Kelly Capoor, is particularly unintelligent. No one would really know that she's an ESFP. They just relate to either the ESFP herself, or the people around her as they also knew an overbearing loud party girl with no concern for anything outside her local stimulus.

Stereotypes might be 'wrong' but they're not always incorrect.

When I think of ESFP I think of Abraham Lincoln.

Now, what is the rest of your post about. Hollywood characters resemble people in real life? I mean, sure, I bet the villian in dirty harry resembles a real criminal, and House resembles a real doctor, and the characters in the Boondock saints resemble real people (can you detect the sarcasm yet?).

Coincidentally, one criteria for me hating a movie/show is if it presents one personality type in a particularily biased/distorted way, or through the common cultural standpoint.

I hope you're not implying that people's bias represents reality.

 

[Gabe]

Oh, by the way. I love how this thread is illustrating that intelligence is not a scalar.
And yes, _NTJs can be (*gasp*) stupid.

 

[The Ü™]

And yes, _NTJs can be (*gasp*) stupid.

Think Eric Cartman.

 

[Night]

What nature of things did these individuals do to make you think that of them?

Among the XNTJs I've known have been individuals abrasive and inconsiderate, hypocritical, even narrow-minded and ignorant, but I've never known one who was unintelligent.

"Dullness" is in the eye of the beholder, though. Hardcore Sensors find abstract issues (and thus abstract thinkers) to be hopelessly dull and boring. Likewise, Intuitors find more detail-oriented tasks dull and boring. (And personally, tasks that require extensive attention to detail give me headaches.)

And let's face it, a person with a preference for abstract thought can have interests of abstract natures that are still considered dull.

Lads, it was a self-deprecating statement.

I'm an INTJ.

 

[Mycroft]

Oh, by the way. I love how this thread is illustrating that intelligence is not a scalar.
And yes, _NTJs can be (*gasp*) stupid.

Lads, it was a self-deprecating statement.

I asked of genuine interest. For the sake of being PC, people frequently point out that SPs can be dumb but, hey, NTs can be dumb too! Yet outside of citing cartoon characters no one has ever posted any details of a genuinely unintelligent NT they've known.

I've known NTs who are many undesirable things, but unintelligent has never once been one of them.

 

[redacted]

Think Eric Cartman.

but cartman is such a fucking genius...

 

[Mort Belfry]

My eldest sister is ESFP. I have never known anyone to have greater or more indepth knowledge of Victorian London and the Jack the Ripper case than she does.

Really? Who does she think did it? My money is on either Kosminksi, Kaminsky, La Bruckman, Hutchinson or Unknown Male.