Ted Bundy

[Mal12345]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTnjabi81ic

Mark Harmon was the perfect Ted.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I LEARNED that someone can be born bad.

I'd like nothing more than you to tell me how you learned this.

But if you truly believe that it's all in the nurturing, then people aren't born good or bad, they are neutral until their environment influences them one way or the other.

But what about my mother love scenario. That was a logical deduction of the process of how if we feel irrational love for someone, and it causes us to do good by them regardless of our own needs, then isn't that indicative of the inherent goodness of man?

How can it not be?

 

[ZPowers]

I'd like nothing more than you to tell me how you learned this.

Not to be rude, but without being a firsthand example, can he learn it any more effectively than you learn that no person is born bad?

You seem to both be good people who do not hurt other people, so any look into the life of a person who does bad things is going to be based on at best secondhand data, and perhaps the analysis of (perhaps clashing) experts in the field of psychology.

To state the answer with full presumption is absurd. You can only do so with the information provided to you.

 

[Totenkindly]

I have stated my strong beliefs about it. I really haven't the heart to argue about it any further right now. To me, it's extremely obvious. People are inherently good. They LEARN to BE bad. It's that simple.

It's not obvious at all, and you really need to stop begging the question. There's not even anything that "needs" to be argued. It's as easy as saying, "I think environmental causes can influence someone's development" -- that's not really a controversial statement at all -- and letting it go at that rather than trying to deny biological influences are at all at play.

The reality is that there are obvious biological influences on development that contribute to all the things you've been trying to write off as purely environmental -- check out the hormonal mechanisms that happen in moms when they're pregnant or after birth, and the same thing for dads (their testosterone drops, etc.) The instinctual drives are implements by physical factors, they just do not happen magically. However, the same level of instinct is not apparent in all people; there's an element of choice, and there's an element of preprogramming.

We also know that damage to certain brain centers can radically change someone's personality, not just cognitively but emotionally and also in terms of regulating one's behavior. This is not a debatable point, it's been recorded via case study. This is why the idea that someone might not have an active empathetic center in their brain, leading to inability to sense emotion cues from others, has had so much support.

Really, there is room for the table both for the bio people and the environmental people. Humans are quite an adaptable species, we have a lot of bio programming that we then can still choose how we're going to respond to. Still, a lot of what we "abstract" is rooted in the physical and biology, it is implemented through those physical structures.

 

[Nuttou]

You just sound like you are trying to intellectualize this, enslaved to some ego fixation you have about needing to believe that someone can be born bad.

Could you please stop trying to ascribe some ulterior motive to me? This isn't the first time you've done this, and it is absolutely not true. I am not fixated on anything, on the contrary I try to stay open to all possibilities. If anything, you're the one refusing to even consider another opinion. Isn't that "needing to believe" everyone is born good?

I have stated my strong beliefs about it. I really haven't the heart to argue about it any further right now. To me, it's extremely obvious. People are inherently good. They LEARN to BE bad. It's that simple.

It isn't that simple, but of course if you are tired with this discussion I'm not going to ask you to continue. However:

But what about my mother love scenario. That was a logical deduction of the process of how if we feel irrational love for someone, and it causes us to do good by them regardless of our own needs, then isn't that indicative of the inherent goodness of man?

How can it not be?

I answered this in my long post in answer to yours, but you said you didn't want to keep arguing about it and didn't reply, just to bring it up again with someone else.

Whatever, it's all at your pleasure

 

[Nuttou]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTnjabi81ic

Wow, the actor is amazing! So very charming!

Mark Harmon was the perfect Ted.

Agree 100%

 

[Mal12345]

Could you please stop trying to ascribe some ulterior motive to me? This isn't the first time you've done this, and it is absolutely not true. I am not fixated on anything, on the contrary I try to stay open to all possibilities. If anything, you're the one refusing to even consider another opinion. Isn't that "needing to believe" everyone is born good?


It isn't that simple, but of course if you are tired with this discussion I'm not going to ask you to continue. However:

I answered this in my long post in answer to yours, but you said you didn't want to keep arguing about it and didn't reply, just to bring it up again with someone else.

Whatever, it all at your pleasure

Her contradiction lies in the idea that people are inherently good, yet they are products of their upbringing. In the presence of strong belief, logic has no effect. It's like arguing with a Christian that God doesn't exist or can't be proved to exist: faith or feelings over reason.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Mal said he learned people could be born bad. I asked him to relate that experience. He hasn't yet.


I can't believe this isn't obvious to y'all. But okay. Then show me one person who's antisocial who hasn't endured some form of child abuse.


There was a neurodevelopmental psychologist in the 80's who said the same thing with a different twist: Show me one person in prison who had been breastfed the first two years of his life. It's nearly impossible to do.


You cannot help your genes. But your behavior is more a result of your environment than anything else, though you can still be good in the face of ANA. But the converse is not true. You cannot be [really] bad without it.


Antisocial behavior is learned. And that is why I believe it can be unlearned, if someone wanted to try hard enough. Man's inner core is inherently good. I proved that with my Mother-Love scenario. No one has tackled that argument yet, or given me a personal example of someone born bad (who hasn't suffered ANA).



~A

 

[Mal12345]

Mal said he learned people could be born bad. I asked him to relate that experience. He hasn't yet.


I can't believe this isn't obvious to y'all. But okay. Then show me one person who's antisocial who hasn't endured some form of child abuse.


There was a neurodevelopmental psychologist in the 80's who said the same thing with a different twist: Show me one person in prison who had been breastfed the first two years of his life. It's nearly impossible to do.


You cannot help your genes. But your behavior is more a result of your environment than anything else, though you can still be good in the face of ANA. But the converse is not true. You cannot be [really] bad without it.


Antisocial behavior is learned. And that is why I believe it can be unlearned, if someone wanted to try hard enough. Man's inner core is inherently good. I proved that with my Mother-Love scenario. No one has tackled that argument yet, or given me a personal example of someone born bad (who hasn't suffered ANA).



~A

Why does everything have to be learned? Kids are smart enough to develop behaviors on their own.

 

[yumchesspie]

Idk. Would it be Si to see his ex in every brunette young woman, thus, want to kill her because of the impression left by shared physical similarities?

 

[Destiny]

I saw websites pegging him as ENTJ.

Do you agree that he is ENTJ? The way he plot his escape from jail a few times, he does seem to use quite a bit of Te and Ni in here. He also has a deep interest in psychology and he always got very high grades in his psychology class.

But at the same time, I couldn't help but to wonder if he could be ENFJ instead. When his ex dumped him, he started holding a deep grudge against her, going out of his way to take revenge on her, he went all the way out to pursue her again a few years later but to end up dumping her like what she did to him, and then he starts targeting women who resembles his ex.
That revenge-plotting thing seems like an unhealthy Fe type to me, I can hardly see an Fi type plotting revenge against an ex.

 

[Lain]

ENTJ.

 

[Evee]

ENFJ 3w4 Sx/Sp

 

[PocketFullOf]

this is in the wrong section.

 

[Destiny]

I just thought about it again today.

I think Ted Bundy might be an ENTJ afterall. Something just doesn't feel right about him being an Fe type.

He seems more like a Te type, everything is about the end goal. He woo back his ex, because his end goal is to prove to himself that he is able to have her. He socialize with people, because his end goal is to gain something from them. There is a hidden motive in everything he does, there is an end goal in everything he does. He is a Te type, not an Fe type.


ENTJ > ENFJ for his type.

 

[draon9]

That is more of an ni thing in what are you saying

 

[Mal12345]

Not ignorance. I am an expert in childhood biopsychosocial development actually, and attachment parenting methods and outcomes. I am an avid observer of human nature and am sensitive and interested in the effects of nature versus nurture upon individuals. Doctors may have their studies, but I know children. And I know children don't behave like that without some serious deprivations and depravations.

Now we see argument from authority.

 

[geedoenfj]

I just thought about it again today.

I think Ted Bundy might be an ENTJ afterall. Something just doesn't feel right about him being an Fe type.

He seems more like a Te type, everything is about the end goal. He woo back his ex, because his end goal is to prove to himself that he is able to have her. He socialize with people, because his end goal is to gain something from them. There is a hidden motive in everything he does, there is an end goal in everything he does. He is a Te type, not an Fe type.


ENTJ > ENFJ for his type.

I think I agree with that

 

[Evee]

ENFJ 3w4 Sx/Sp.

I think that's right and I think I am quite the authority on Ted at least on this forum.

 

[Mal12345]

ENFJ 3w4 Sx/Sp.

I think that's right and I think I am quite the authority on Ted at least on this forum.

What's up with the authoritarian attitude?