Star Wars Film Scores Discussion

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I agree. TFA felt more like a Greatest Hits film. Personally Rogue One is my favorite Disney era film. It does the nostalgia fan service stuff far better. While also feeling like its own movie.

Yeah, Rogue One handled OT nostalgia the RIGHT way. I don't actually mind the stuff with BB8 being a MacGuffin, but I really dislike Starkiller Base. It actually is an unnecessary distraction from the more interesting main plot of searching for Luke Skywalker. The movie kind of forgets about that to do a lame rehash of the Death Star, which is its cardinal sin.

I think Solo edges TFA out because it has interesting locations and other goodies, as well as the underworld/ Crimson Dawn element which works pretty well.

There's a bit in Solo, though, which explains why I sometimes complain about certain fans. I'm afraid of them making movies worse and more derivative because they tend to complain about things that are different from the OT, even if they are necessary, or even when they are done well.

There's a little joke with Emilia Clarke about trade negotiations, which seems like a way of addressing complaints about TPM (technically, I guess TLJ, which I love, but the issue isn't the joke itself in either case; I think I chuckled when I saw it in Solo, too). The thing is, the people complaining about "space politics" probably either haven't thought about their criticisms that much ( I want to say that they're just ripping off stuff from Red Letter Media, but that's probably unfair), or have a vision that wouldn't have been any better.

The complaints about space politics should really more be complaints about some of the acting and dialogue in those scenes. Because, there is no way to adequately tell the story of the prequels without engaging in space politics. There was no way the movies were just going to be the Terminator with Darth Vader, and they should not have been that. In Solo, it's just an offhand joke. But in TFA, it's a much bigger deal.

There's an entirely different political situation in that movie, but it's never clarified what it is, and I suspect the reason is pandering to complaints about "space politics." There really needed to be at least one scene explaining the difference between the Resistance and the New Republic. Yes, it's explained in a novel, but it really is the kind of thing I (rightfully) expect to be in a movie. Part of why I like Star Wars is worldbuilding, and if you ignore that because of cantenkerous folks who just want to watch ESB at age 8 for the first time over and over, that pisses me off. I'm not saying they should have been handled like some of the scenes early in Episode II, but there should have been something in there. I'm not so nostalgic about the OT that I want filmmakers to ignore, not address, or outright avoid anything the prequels tried to do.

The whole thing about the Republic and the Resistance is extremely confusing... (oh so they blew up Coruscant... wait that wasn't Coruscant), and it makes for a weaker movie. Because we don't even learn that the Republic exists until it gets blown up (and the entire fleet just got destroyed too... this is something that people unfairly blame Rian Johnson for the implausibility of the First Order taking over in a week, but this is really J.J. and Kasdan's fault, because they set that up. ) there are no stakes. If we would have learned a little bit about earlier in the movie and why Leia wasn't part of it, it would have meant more. But no.... they were afraid of seeming too much like the prequels.

 

[The Cat]

When I was a kid, my scifi of choice was Dune. I LOVE space politics.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

The Force Awakens took me out of the franchise hard. The Last Jedi, I liked better. I sort of felt like, This is the Luke Skywalker I can finally relate to. I also liked that little aside with Finn and the hacker. Poe's story was good too. I would have gladly set through three different movies, to get the full story, but that tendency to try to merge too much into one thing, is growing. That works better in books than audio visual media imo.

Yeah... TLJ is the kind of Star Wars movie I wanted to see; I just wish he had the green saber at the end. I really hope TROS doesn't retcon too much just because of the backlash. I could deal with Rey maybe being some kind of experiment of Palpatine's (like Anakin was implied to be), or taking the Skywalker name, but if she's a secret Skywalker by birth or something, I'm out.

I even liked Canto Bight apart from one little bit on the space horses that was a little cringey.

Luke Skywalker in TLJ feels very familar, but it manages to be familiar and heroic at the same time.

 

[The Cat]

Yeah... TLJ is the kind of Star Wars movie I wanted to see; I just wish he had the green saber at the end. I really hope TROS doesn't retcon too much just because of the backlash. I could deal with Rey maybe being some kind of experiment of Palpatine's (like Anakin was implied to be), or taking the Skywalker name, but if she's a secret Skywalker by birth or something, I'm out.

I even liked Canto Bight apart from one little bit on the space horses that was a little cringey.

I will be surprised if she's not. Her main dark side lure is she deep down hopes that her parents were people who loves her, but she "knows" (she searched her feelings, and knows it to be true) that they were just crummy people who abandoned their daughter. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to think it's called the rise of skywalker, because we're gonna get some cool stuff with blue ghost luke, or maybe his teachings change the galaxy's understanding of the force, or something subtle. But as Han Solo often says, I've got a bad feeling about this.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I will be surprised if she's not. Her main dark side lure is she deep down hopes that her parents were people who loves her, but she "knows" (she searched her feelings, and knows it to be true) that they were just crummy people who abandoned their daughter. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to think it's called the rise of skywalker, because we're gonna get some cool stuff with blue ghost luke, or maybe his teachings change the galaxy's understanding of the force, or something subtle. But as Han Solo often says, I've got a bad feeling about this.

Yeah.

Goddamnit.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I will be surprised if she's not. Her main dark side lure is she deep down hopes that her parents were people who loves her, but she "knows" (she searched her feelings, and knows it to be true) that they were just crummy people who abandoned their daughter. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to think it's called the rise of skywalker, because we're gonna get some cool stuff with blue ghost luke, or maybe his teachings change the galaxy's understanding of the force, or something subtle. But as Han Solo often says, I've got a bad feeling about this.

You know the dumb thing about that is that the same people who complain about Rey being a nobody tend to be the same people who complain about the way the Last Jedi "ruined" Luke Skywalker by showing him as a grumpy old man (and conveniently missing the point of his character arc).

The thing is, making Rey a Skywalker would make either Luke or Han and Leia deadbeat parents, which is way worse than Luke contemplating killing a relative who turned to the dark side and then deciding not to (which we've already seen him do before!) because it's not what being a Jedi should be about. Rey being an abandoned Skywalker actually would ruin one of the OT heroes.

 

[The Cat]

Yeah.

Goddamnit.

Or. and highly unlikely, but I would think it cool....

Palapatine was Vader's father. Shmi was a former apprentice, she fled from him when she got pregnant, and severed her connection to the force while hiding out with a Toydarian (who are immune to the Force) On Tatooine, the abosulete furthest place from the Bright Center of the Galaxy (Coruscant, where Palpatine hangs out) Once Palpatine finds out Anakin is alive, that's why it's so easy for him, the coldest cinematically portrayed Sith, to be so warm and paternal to Anakin. After Anakin goes off to Jedi new life, but Before Shmi is bought by Kleeg Lars she has another child, That child grows up; moves to Jaku to escape the Jedi purge, then has Rey, senses her connection to the force and flees, trying to draw anyone hunting jedi away from their child. So, Rey was actually Luke's Cousin.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Or. and highly unlikely, but I would think it cool....

Palapatine was Vader's father. Shmi was a former apprentice, she fled from him when she got pregnant, and severed her connection to the force while hiding out with a Toydarian (who are immune to the Force) On Tatooine, the abosulete furthest place from the Bright Center of the Galaxy (Coruscant, where Palpatine hangs out) Once Palpatine finds out Anakin is alive, that's why it's so easy for him, the coldest cinematically portrayed Sith, to be so warm and paternal to Anakin. After Anakin goes off to Jedi new life, but Before Shmi is bought by Kleeg Lars she has another child, That child grows up; moves to Jaku to escape the Jedi purge, then has Rey, senses her connection to the force and flees, trying to draw anyone hunting jedi away from their child. So, Rey was actually Luke's Cousin.

That could work, but I doubt that will happen.

 

[The Cat]

That could work, but I doubt that will happen.

Because in Star Wars, you can kiss your twin sister seperated by galactic conspiracy, and not recognize your long lost cousin no one knew about, but only one of those is too far fetched to make it into a Space Opera...

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Because in Star Wars, you can kiss your twin sister seperated by galactic conspiracy, and not recognize your long lost cousin no one knew about, but only one of those is too far fetched to make it into a Space Opera...

If she turns out to be Luke or Leia's daughter, I'm planning on complaining about it loudly and and repeatedly, like those assholes who were upset that Rian's choices violated some bullshit idea of a "Skywalker saga" that they just made up.

"oh but it was set up in force awakens". Not really, except for Kylo having some curiosity about her which could be for a lot of different reasons. For that matter, it was also set up in A New Hope that Leia, Vader and Luke were not related. They did not plan those movies in advance, either. Read about early drafts of the Empire Strikes back where Luke's sister is some other chick, and Anakin's force ghost visits Luke on Dagobah.

"waaah she needs to be a skywalker because even though I hated the idea of the force being tied to ancestry which I thought was what midichlorians implied i care deeply about the importance of the skywalker bloodline. "

 

[The Cat]

If she turns out to be Luke or Leia's daughter, I'm planning on complaining about it loudly and and repeatedly, like those assholes who were upset that Rian's choices violated some bullshit idea of a "Skywalker saga" that they just made up.

"oh but it was set up in force awakens". Not really, except for Kylo having some curiosity about her which could be for a lot of different reasons. For that matter, it was also set up in A New Hope that Leia, Vader and Luke were not related. They did not plan those movies in advance, either. Read about early drafts of the Empire Strikes back where Luke's sister is some other chick, and Anakin's force ghost visits Luke on Dagobah.

"waaah she needs to be a skywalker because even though I hated the idea of the force being tied to ancestry which I thought was what midichlorians implied i care deeply about the importance of the skywalker bloodline. "

pretty much, and speaking of, I really enjoyed the Kylo Rey dynamic. Again a thing I would have invested an entire movie for some grittier depth to...

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

pretty much, and speaking of, I really enjoyed the Kylo Rey dynamic. Again a thing I would have invested an entire movie for some grittier depth to...

Yeah, that was really cool. If they were related, that would also be kind of weird, since there's sort of a sexual/romantic aspect to that, isn't there? I kind of detected an amusing riff on Snow White when she used the Falcon's escape pod.

 

[The Cat]

Yeah, that was really cool. If they were related, that would also be kind of weird, since there's sort of a sexual/romantic aspect to that, isn't there? I kind of detected an amusing riff on Snow White when she used the Falcon's escape pod.

I really like that Kylo seems to have a genuine distaste for his interest in her, and she has a sort of grudging acceptance that she doesnt find him as gross as she'd like either.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I really like that Kylo seems to have a genuine distaste for his interest in her, and she has a sort of grudging acceptance that she doesnt find him as gross as she'd like either.

It's a really complicated dynamic. I like that instead of something between father and son, it's more of a romantic thing. It's a lot less interesting if they're brother and sister, because we've already seen a family conflict like that.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I actually quite enjoy space politics when it is done well, Lucas just didn’t know how to write good dialogue or direct those scenes when he made the prequels. I agree that TFA left a lot of exposition out that may have been helpful. Even A New Hope had a few lines laying out the basic conflicts and who’s who of the galaxy, and scenes like the conference room establishing the uneasy partnership between Vader and the military industrial complex. TFA really could have used a wee bit more exposition. Like, at least one scene showing or telling us about the few decades since Return of the Jedi. And explaining the current Republic and its relationship with the resistance and first order. Just one or two lines explaining why Snoke is important, so his sudden death doesn’t feel so abrupt and make him seem such a pointless character in TLJ. Julius has a point that some of the worst things about TLJ are actually TFA problems. The first part in a trilogy should always do a decent job of introducing us to the world and story but TFA fell short there because they needed to make it a love letter to the OT and figured fans wouldn’t have the intelligence to be interested in exposition and drama.

I came of age watching shows like DS9. Yes, space politics can be really interesting and engaging, when done right.

JJ Abrams cannibalizes sci fi franchises.

 

[The Cat]

I actually quite enjoy space politics when it is done well, Lucas just didn’t know how to write good dialogue or direct those scenes when he made the prequels. I agree that TFA left a lot of exposition out that may have been helpful. Even A New Hope had a few lines laying out the basic conflicts and who’s who of the galaxy, and scenes like the conference room establishing the uneasy partnership between Vader and the military industrial complex. TFA really could have used a wee bit more exposition. Like, at least one scene showing or telling us about the few decades since Return of the Jedi. And explaining the current Republic and its relationship with the resistance and first order. Just one or two lines explaining why Snoke is important, so his sudden death doesn’t feel so abrupt and make him seem such a pointless character in TLJ. Julius has a point that some of the worst things about TLJ are actually TFA problems. The first part in a trilogy should always do a decent job of introducing us to the world and story but TFA fell short there because they needed to make it a love letter to the OT and figured fans wouldn’t have the intelligence to be interested in exposition and drama.

I came of age watching shows like DS9. Yes, space politics can be really interesting and engaging, when done right.

JJ Abrams cannibalizes sci fi franchises.

My biggest question about the new trilogy and the First Order. Adding the red aesthetics, and the personalized armor of Captain Phasma. What is the story with that? And why do they keep wasting the good Captain?

- - - Updated - - -

I actually quite enjoy space politics when it is done well, Lucas just didn’t know how to write good dialogue or direct those scenes when he made the prequels. I agree that TFA left a lot of exposition out that may have been helpful. Even A New Hope had a few lines laying out the basic conflicts and who’s who of the galaxy, and scenes like the conference room establishing the uneasy partnership between Vader and the military industrial complex. TFA really could have used a wee bit more exposition. Like, at least one scene showing or telling us about the few decades since Return of the Jedi. And explaining the current Republic and its relationship with the resistance and first order. Just one or two lines explaining why Snoke is important, so his sudden death doesn’t feel so abrupt and make him seem such a pointless character in TLJ. Julius has a point that some of the worst things about TLJ are actually TFA problems. The first part in a trilogy should always do a decent job of introducing us to the world and story but TFA fell short there because they needed to make it a love letter to the OT and figured fans wouldn’t have the intelligence to be interested in exposition and drama.

I came of age watching shows like DS9. Yes, space politics can be really interesting and engaging, when done right.

JJ Abrams cannibalizes sci fi franchises.

And it's not JJ, It's the Island.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

My biggest question about the new trilogy and the First Order. Adding the red aesthetics, and the personalized armor of Captain Phasma. What is the story with that? And why do they keep wasting the good Captain?
:

The red is nothing new. Palpatine had has red royal guards, and his haunts on Coruscant in the PT were always red. Red is often a Sith color in Star Wars unless it's on a spaceship (then it's kind of neutral or even positive).

I was kind of hoping they were building up a running gag with Phasma seeming to be killed in every movie and then somehow coming back. I haven't heard anything about Gwendoline Christie coming back, though, so perhaps she's really dead?

 

[The Cat]

The red is nothing new. Palpatine had has red royal guards, and his haunts on Coruscant in the PT were always red. Red is often a Sith color in Star Wars unless it's on a spaceship (then it's kind of neutral or even positive).

I was kind of hoping they were building up a running gag with Phasma seeming to be killed in every movie and then somehow coming back. I haven't heard anything about Gwendoline Christie coming back, though, so perhaps she's really dead?

I get the Imperial Guards, there was even a pretty cool comic in the old EU that featured a few as protagonists. The name escapes me...

I remember hearing GL talk about his color aesthetics back in the OT the Empire was supposed to be that Black and White with a few shades of grey kinda aesthetic; which I mean I get that, it was the 70's and 80's but just the little splash of red, made me think more of the old rebel alliance logo. these movies feel like they're missing pieces, does the franchise expect us to be doing homework, and the movies are like paying to take a pop quiz?