I have a question. The charter of medina or whateverits called, i have heard many names for it. Is very short, a couple paragraphs. Is that the whole thing from muhammed. I am about to dig into the Sharia law more in depth in the next couple days.
It was his idea essentially, he put the general principles, he run the discussion with the representatives of all sects and tribes in Al Madina and also the immigrants, until they finally all got to that agreement and signed up for it ..
Likewise, when Muslims go or live in a country where there's majority of non Muslims, they should submit to the terms and conditions of that that country or else go to a place where they like there rules better, any breaking of these rules is considered betrayal and is forbidden by Sharia, and the punishment stated by that country for such an action should apply to whoever break the rules..
But we are skewed by the negative due to news, not the positive. It would be more beneficial for muslims to work towards the skewed perception from what we see in real life then from movies.
Strongly agree!! There's a lot of work to be done.. I know like the Fox News and maybe others, I always say that some people keep giving them materials to work on, and people being under the fear factor not knowing from where the danger might be coming to them would make them believe and accept anything, sometimes I think ISIS is stirring up this hatefulness on purpose as a part of their plan that Muslims would be banned from Western countries then eventually sometime in the future when they will be able to establish their state, they would leave Muslims without any choice but to join the gang..
*sigh* I wish sometimes that me and my family would immigrate to some small island so that we escape all of that madness, because the situation is only getting worse and most of us are worried of what future might be bringing ..
Well I avoid listening to news lately, I mean I would only be sad and pissed off and cannot do anything about it, I'm sick of people getting killed, I'm sick of blood shedding, I don't want my eyes to be used to these views, and for what??? Seriously!!
All that I'm thinking of is the safety of people, I started viewing political discussion as a luxury while there are human tragedies going on..
I loved the fact that in this orlando shooting it was made aware that muslims were among the many who gave blood and helped.
Wow I didn't know that! I love that too! There's a verse in Quraan that says:
"Whosoever kills an innocent human being, it shall be as if he has killed all mankind, and whosoever saves the life of a human being, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind " Alma'eda Chapter; V No.32
The quraan mentions that one punishment of the disbelievers and ignorance is great humility. We will humiliate ourselves and i would venture to say that most punishments of the quraan is living life itself because our mindset causes us our own issues. Like being humiliated, spewing hate out of ignorance. Alot of this stuff we learn and get past as we become knowledgable and more mature. We then have to live with our past.
I know a man who had major issues with drugs and violence and lead a horrible life, i think he had killed others. He woke up one day and devoyed his life to the church to make up for his sins. Its wasnt driven by anything other then his disgust of himself. That change surrounded him with happiness, acceptance, love, it changed his whole outlook and who he was. He became a child of God and he was working to undo his sins and show he is a new man. Someone asked me, and i said that i hold him accountable for his whole life and his sins cant be forgiven by me, but i also said, its not my duty to judge him. I will treat him based on how he acts today and his recent past and any forgiveness is at the hands of God, not me. That is not my place to decide. I believe that is what our current system of jail/prison pushes and what going to sharia law will cut short personally. Granted we have a huge issue with space in jail and prison. But its a price we pay to stay on a path of giving chances.
Agree
The outlaws is what we see the most and they guide what we believe Islam and Muslim to be. They live by what they claim as Sharia law. The beheadings, the killings, the war, the hate, etc.
Thanks for the explanation and part on morality, that is a huge area that we are blind to as you said its not known. We have a system based on transparency...everything is known. Its the opposite and has been put in place due to corruption as a checks and balance system. We can no longer trust so we must push transparency. It works half ass though, there has to be a better system that actually gets people we trust into office. I am curious if this is what drives our fear above and beyond whats warranted....because as a country we believe in everyone is tried equally and no one should be treated differently. We will cry foul at the drop of a hat because so and so didnt recieve the exact same punishment as if they walked the exact same path in life. Its a beating to deal with these people. All the explanations, the reasoning, blah, blah, blah. It all revolves around lack of trust and percieved fairness. I am gonna have to put some thought behind that morality code as you explained it, i believe its a huge part of the system and is actually the part that aligns with the quraan and the teachings of Islam.
Well there's a little other thing we are missing.. a considerable number of ISIS members are from Muslims in Europe, I read somewhere that they're estimated to be 6000 from Europe alone while the rest other 5000 are from the rest of Islamic countries that have 1 billion something Muslims.. although I believe statistics can be manipulated to some extent, but IF it is true.. isn't that something that we need to take notice on? They were raised in Europe, in most developed and civilzed countries in the world what happened?! Why don't they feel belonging to those countries?? Why are they more willing to accept those ideologies than some of people in my region who might have a much stronger motive of getting revenge because of how USA and some Western countries handled some issues in the Middle East.. I mean we have a whole new generation of youths whom were once children of war..
Whatever the reasons are, the Western culture of freedom which I have noticed here in the forum for example (since I never been in a Western country before) can back fire in some cases, the idea that everyone can interpret anything by their own understanding and perception and create their own vision because nothing seem to be for sure, is opening the space for those who never studied Sharia properly to choose what they believe without a basic knowledge on purposes, approaches of making the law etc. and without feeling the need to get back to Sharia scholars for clarification, and of course they get inspired by some of extreme schools that belongs to authorities and governments in few Islamic countries..
Speciality should be respected, Muslims are warned to never give Fatwas unless they're liscenced of doing so, and whoever gives Fatwas and estimates laws will either be rewarded by God if they were correct and for good, or incur the consequence and punishment of all the damages their Fatwa caused in the after life, so it's not easy, it's a huge responsibility..
And of course another point we really need to work on is spirituality and moral code rather than only set of laws and rules, rules are to do with knowledge of our rights and duties, moral code is the core and soul of the relegion, the whole point of it..
What i get out of your mohammed example is that you always err on the side of how do we get this person to do right...not on the side of how do i punish this person. Sometimes you have to fall on the side of punishment, but you need to be fair and equitable. God will accept fair and equitable, but he loves those who can get people to do right and avoid punishment.
He usually doesn't tolerate betrayal, threatening of life, properties, safety, racism etc.. Generally anything people related, not only Muslims but anyone lives under his authority..and there are many incidents showed that clearly..
And his companions showed that too, and I will mention an incident in time of Omar bin Alkhattab, second most important figure in Islamic history, one day an Egyption Christian young man came to him complaining about the son of Amr bin Alas (the ruler of Egypt at that time) who was his friend, and one day they were racing on horses, and the Egyption man won the race, so the son of Amr got angry at him and beated him up with a stick saying "take that! and I am of a son of majestic ancestors!" Omar bin Alkhattab got so angry when he heard that and sent for Amr and his son to come to Almadina ASAP, and when they came he looked at the son of Amr and told him: "So, you beated him up telling him you're a son of majestic ancestors huh?!" He didn't reply, so Omar gave the stick to the Egyption man and told him: "Here! take the stick and beat the son of a majestic ancestors up" then looked at Amr and said his very famous statement:
"Oh Amr.. When did you start enslaving people when their mothers gave birth to them as freewill humans"
What is your opinion on Sharia law itself as fair and equitable? How often are the stricter punishments actually implemented? For example amputations or death?
I believe Sharia is fair and equitable when applied properly, although many laws can be disabled according to time and place specially if people don't see it's appliable because people's opinions are highly valued, Mohammed used to always ask people for suggestions before taking steps and decisions..
Although there are harsh punishments but the application of them is almost impossible, because it puts very strict terms and conditions on how to prove that action, which makes the punishment is for public revelation of the action rather than the action itself, and also we're supposed to not spill others' secrets, it's a sin..
Actually most Islamic countries do not apply the amputation, we have high levels of poverty and unemployment and very unstable political situations, we're supposed to help people improve their lives not amputate their hands, however, if the country lives in a stability and has no poverty, cutting hands is to actually make people not thinking of stealing on the first place, just by picturing the horrifying idea of hands off will keep this whole idea away from their heads, so we can say it's ligeslated to not be applied, for the theft to not happen in the first place..
As for death penalty, in case of murders, there are three options: the family of the murdered can either forgive, or the killer pay an amount of money that the family of the murdered person determine as a penalty, or the killer must be executed..
And I think some Sharia laws can be a better substitute to a prison, because in prison you only surround criminals with more dangerous companions and there will be less chance for them to grow and be better people, prison may create a community of criminals which contradicts with the whole purpose of punishment..