Russell Brand

[Mal12345]

Good Job!

I agree. That's not heroic Ne for an ENFP. Drugs, alcohol and peer/social pressure to be an outgoing, "wild and manly man"?

What is "heroic Ne"?

 

[Mal12345]

Oh I meant paint me a picture of how you understand enfps.

So... You're saying you see se in him? Explain to me what you're seeing because I'm not.

I'm sure Ivy who has read two Brand bios can explain it better. How do I see ENFP? Chatty, idealistic, ethereal. Not as extraverted in behavior as their ESFP "cousins."

 

[Lady_X]

I'm sure Ivy who has read two Brand bios can explain it better. How do I see ENFP? Chatty, idealistic, ethereal. Not as extraverted in behavior as their ESFP "cousins."

But ivy sees enfp. :/

And... You don't see brand that way?

 

[Mal12345]

But ivy sees enfp. :/

And... You don't see brand that way?

That, plus that 'wild man' reputation of his.

 

[Istbkleta]

What is "heroic Ne"?

Check Beebe's model and the archetypes. Your understanding and knowledge will be greatly enhanced.

 

[Mal12345]

Check Beebe's model and the archetypes. Your understanding and knowledge will be greatly enhanced.

I just want to know what "heroic Ne" is.

 

[Istbkleta]

I just want to know what "heroic Ne" is.

You sure you r not an ENTP?

A "heroic" function is a function in a dom position. Like Ne for ENTPs and ENFPs. It does heroic deeds and is extremely self-confident compared to the other functions and even the parental (aux) one. Most importantly these deeds actually work out most of the times, the person "pulls off" miracles in this area that wouldn't come out so smoothly from another type with this function coming through another archetype.

At least this is how I understand it.

You sure you are not an ENTP actually?

 

[Mal12345]

You sure you r not an ENTP?

A "heroic" function is a function in a dom position. Like Ne for ENTPs and ENFPs. It does heroic deeds and is extremely self-confident compared to the other functions and even the parental (aux) one. Most importantly these deeds actually work out most of the times, the person "pulls off" miracles in this area that wouldn't come out so smoothly from another type with this function coming through another archetype.

At least this is how I understand it.

You sure you are not an ENTP actually?

I'm very sure I'm not one of them wiley boogers.

 

[Salomé]

I'm only speaking to functions

Try speaking to people. Sometimes it helps.

Another function has to come forth besides Ne or Fi. Russell's sensualistic nature tells me that Se factors in as an alternate dominant.

You don't need to be S to be Sensual. Stop being so literal! ENFPs are ridiculously sensual people.
Go meet some. Not everything about people can be learned from books.

Just the opposite, it's freeing JCF from its rigid beginnings with Jung who thought in terms of one dominant, one auxiliary, and one inferior per personality.

Compatible yes. As I said above, there's no contradiction. I wasn't denying his ENFP, I was adding to it.

My previous ENTP call turned out to be a mixture of ENFP and ESTP.

Or, you know...you could just be wrong.

This typology shit is amazing. Get it wrong, add another type, call it "dual types theory"! Still wrong? Add another. Now it's tri-types. Just fucking make it up as you go along! The possibilities are endless!

Does "Ne unfettered by introverted Judgement" mean he had poor judgment?

That's a more prosaic way of putting it.

Isn't that a trait of Perceptives anyway?

Um...no. It's a trait of Pe-doms who haven't developed their auxiliary to a healthy functioning level.

Fi does not fetter Ne, it informs Ne like a good angel sitting on his right shoulder whispering admonishments in his ear about his behavior.

Fi = Jiminy Cricket? No. You're thinking of Fe.
Fi does whatever feels right and harmonious with the spirit. It doesn't imbue 'magical goodness' in the way you imply. Fi is essentially about integrity and integrity is essentially just about being consistent. It's not about moralising. It usually makes people aware of their effects on others and highly empathetic (which tends to help them avoid harming others), but that's only when it's functioning in a healthy, conscious way.

Fi definitely doesn't stop people "partying". Brand doesn't think fucking around or taking drugs is "wrong" (those are Fe values which he has not internalised - or hadn't, at that time). He is consistent within his own value framework. He has standards, they're just the kind we might like to file under "Alternative":
“I couldn't possibly have sex with someone with such a slender grasp on grammar!”

“Even as a junkie I stayed true [to vegetarianism] - 'I shall have heroin, but I shan't have a hamburger.' What a sexy little paradox.”

“I like threesomes with two women, not because I'm a cynical sexual predator. Oh no! But because I'm a romantic. I'm looking for "The One." And I'll find her more quickly if I audition two at a time.”

This last was brilliantly tongue-in-cheek, but can also be seen as a good example of a weak Fi rationalisation. An ExTP wouldn't bother to rationalise it. The act is its own reward and advertising it, a display of sexual prowess/dominance. No higher purpose need be invoked. Russell mocks himself but at the same time seeks to justify the potentially exploitative aspects of his behaviour.
It's a delusionary way of thinking, but one ENFPs can be susceptible to. They sometimes (mis)use Fi to rationalise "questionable" moral choices. And because the thinking function can be underdeveloped, the glaring inconsistencies are obscured from view. He probably genuinely does not see any conflict between being "a romantic" on a quest for a soulmate and fucking anything with a pulse (and an adequate command of English grammar) that crosses his path. Thus his behaviour retains a kind of logic and consistency that makes sense to him. Which is all Fi really cares about.

But what do you mean he doesn't lose energy? He certainly becomes more careful and thoughtful, the exact opposite of what he was. Let me put it differently then. He doesn't lose energy, he actually requires more energy while discussing a realm of ideas that is not in the public view because he doesn't normally or habitually put it out there for people to see. It requires much less use of energy discussing things he is more comfortable with putting out there for show.

He was being grilled, he didn't feel adequate rapport with the interviewer to talk comfortably about his personal values. This is very ENFP. They have a deeply private side which they don't show to just anyone, you have to gain their trust.

If he were any kind of T, he would have been aroused by the cut and thrust of debate and a bit of antagonism. He would have acquired new energy. Instead, what you saw was him defensively shrinking into himself a little bit, because someone was challenging his core values. NFs do not like that.


I just came across this old podcast which caused the furore I alluded to in my first post (and Paxman alluded to in the interview - where he blamed Brand for creating a more bureaucratic BBC - anathema to the ENFP, sneaky old Jeremy!)

It's bloody hilarious. Absolutely suicidal. What's really in evidence is how Russell defers to the Thinker of the duo. He allows himself to be made the clown repeatedly, the butt of the joke, and he doesn't really retaliate (other than the jibes about Ross's much higher salary, which just come off as envious and yet another deferral). This is a classic ENFP posture. Jonathan Ross is ENTP or possibly ESTP. He uses typical Thinking put-downs and oneupmanship. He gets carried away with humiliating Russ, in fact, and it is he who oversteps the line which leads to Brand's show being cancelled. I can't tell you how many times I've seen this dynamic play out. It's like ENFPs invite it or something. Even though they find it hurtful. Ross would never ordinarily be that careless, but he was determined to outshine the younger comic, which he does, and at considerable cost.

Ross on Russ: "You don't really write jokes, do you? You just sort of exist on a waft of whimsy. Whimsy, and looking like something Tim Burton threw out in an early sketch for the Corpse Bride."

Enjoy.
http://www.russellbrandpodcastarchive.com/audio/russell_brand/2008-10-18.mp3

 

[Mal12345]

^^The reason I have you on ignore are all there in your response which I didn't read^^

 

[AgentF]

it is a pity you didn't read it because Salome offers a lovely example of a well-argued, thorough and insightful post which i believe is also quite accurate in its description of both ENFP and T characteristics.

particularly the way she describes ENFP Fi-fueled rationalizations. if you've ever known an ENFP addict or even former addict, you will recognize this behavior as they even put Ne and weak Te to use in doing so. quite a performance...

 

[Lady_X]

^^The reason I have you on ignore are all there in your response which I didn't read^^

Are you serious man!? Are you not interested in expanding your knowledge at all?

The things you're saying about enfps and fi in general is inaccurate.

Ne fi can be very inappropriate... Very profane and impolite... We can say something just to amuse ourselves at how much offends you not to be rude but just the very idea of how ridiculous it is that people take themselves so seriously... Fi finds the notion of appropriateness absurd and can play with it to amuse ourselves.
One of my enfp dads favorite jokes was about a doctor who carelessly and maniacally beat the newborn baby up against the wall and then saying I'm just kidding!! It was born dead!!

It's completely offensive... But the ridiculousness of it makes it funny... In a twisted sort of way...

Know what I mean??
Brands comment about the kitty and being all sweet to the kitty and then absurdly having the sinister thought of I could kill you... Is very similar... A twisted ne fi combo

Or the poster awhile back mentioning the enfp who lit the annoying chick at a party's hair on fire... That's ne unchecked by fi
The almost cartoon absurdity of it all

Not to say in any way enfps are total psychopaths or anything haha

 

[Mal12345]

Are you serious man!? Are you not interested in expanding your knowledge at all?

The things you're saying about enfps and fi in general is inaccurate.

Ne fi can be very inappropriate... Very profane and impolite... We can say something just to amuse ourselves at how much offends you not to be rude but just the very idea of how ridiculous it is that people take themselves so seriously... Fi finds the notion of appropriateness absurd and can play with it to amuse ourselves.
One of my enfp dads favorite jokes was about a doctor who carelessly and maniacally beat the newborn baby up against the wall and then saying I'm just kidding!! It was born dead!!

It's completely offensive... But the ridiculousness of it makes it funny... In a twisted sort of way...

Know what I mean??
Brands comment about the kitty and being all sweet to the kitty and then absurdly having the sinister thought of I could kill you... Is very similar... A twisted ne fi combo

Or the poster awhile back mentioning the enfp who lit the annoying chick at a party's hair on fire... That's ne unchecked by fi
The almost cartoon absurdity of it all

Not to say in any way enfps are total psychopaths or anything haha

I am speaking to the complexity of the individual (not in any transcendent sense as being "more than" a group of letters) but just in terms of dual personality types or even tritypes. The MBTI is the weakest system of them all due to the way it passes out only one type per person.

Anyway, I don't recall mentioning Brand's outrageous sense of humor. Of course an Ne unfettered by Fi is quite acceptable to me. But in that case another function has to come forth to make up for the lack of Fi. I'm saying that in this case it's an extraverted function, namely, Se.

 

[Lady_X]

I am speaking to the complexity of the individual (not in any transcendent sense as being "more than" a group of letters) but just in terms of dual personality types or even tritypes. The MBTI is the weakest system of them all due to the way it passes out only one type per person.

Anyway, I don't recall mentioning Brand's outrageous sense of humor. Of course an Ne unfettered by Fi is quite acceptable to me. But in that case another function has to come forth to make up for the lack of Fi. I'm saying that in this case it's an extraverted function, namely, Se.

Oh yeah I disagree... And he's not someone who's pure ne...he's just ne Dom fi aux and very likely sx so 7w8 so he doesn't have the sp thing or the 6 wing thing saying hmm maybe not.

That's my take anyway but i don't buy the dual type theory so it's a loosing battle I suppose.

 

[Mal12345]

Oh yeah I disagree... And he's not someone who's pure ne...he's just ne Dom fi aux and very likely sx so 7w8 so he doesn't have the sp thing or the 6 wing thing saying hmm maybe not.

That's my take anyway but i don't buy the dual type theory so it's a loosing battle I suppose.

There's only one way to find out, and that's to create a DECENT mbti test, one that doesn't test for individual letters or functions. The function tests are by far the worst. The last function test result I saw posted here had 3 top functions, Ni, Ne, and Te. What a mess!

Even those give you 3 options at best which implies there is only a single type possible. It is circular reasoning for the MBTI to assume that everybody is one type and then create a test designed to give one type as a result.

 

[Mal12345]

it is a pity you didn't read it because Salome offers a lovely example of a well-argued, thorough and insightful post which i believe is also quite accurate in its description of both ENFP and T characteristics.

particularly the way she describes ENFP Fi-fueled rationalizations. if you've ever known an ENFP addict or even former addict, you will recognize this behavior as they even put Ne and weak Te to use in doing so. quite a performance...

Just a thought - don't start a post by flaming me [Salome, that is] and then maybe I'll read it. That unfortunate posting style is why Salome has been on iggy for a long time.

 

[AgentF]

flaming?

that's rather delusional but you're in luck as i find that kind of thing entertaining.

you haven't been able to engage anyone here in debate. and you ignore what you don't want to hear, including arguments presented by members of the type in question. you have an agenda here, but it isn't one anyone's been interested in.

 

[Mal12345]

flaming?

that's rather delusional but you're in luck as i find that kind of thing entertaining.

you haven't been able to engage anyone here in debate. and you ignore what you don't want to hear, including arguments presented by members of the type in question. you have an agenda here, but it isn't one anyone's been interested in.

On the contrary, there is an entire thread recently devoted to MBTI tritypes. The problem here is that hardly anybody cares about Russell Brand.

 

[Salomé]

^^The reason I have you on ignore are all there in your response which I didn't read^^

Congratulations on your psychic powers. Pity they don't help you when it comes to accurately reading type.

 

[highlander]

Russell Brandt's Type? (funny video)

What type is Russell Brandt? Also how about the woman in the blue dress?