Roe no mo?

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Something else.... conservative rhetoric often acts as though there is a "silent majority" out there that agrees with them (which may be an attempt to justify their authoritarianism on that angle). The existence of a "silent majority" may well have been true in 1972, but judging by the narrow margins (even lacking the popular vote in two out of three cases) with which conservatives have managed to secure the presidency, this seems to no longer be the case.

The only time in the past 22 years when a conservative candidate actually won the popular vote, the margins were much much narrow than Nixon's 1972 60% to 37% victory over McGovern.

This supposed silent majority sure as shit doesn't seem to be turning up to vote in actual elections.

 

[ceecee]

Abortion isn't something at the top of my mind usually but if I stop and think about it for 30 seconds, it's messed up that if the pro-life people had their way, a rape victim would have to carry the baby to term.

I also think conservatives, if they could, would absolutely make an abortion ban a federal law. The stuff about local control is largely a smoke screen; it's just another one of those rules that Republicans make up and then abandon just as easily when it isn't convenient for their agenda.

They have already done this in multiple states.

In multiple states, rapists can sue their victims for parental custody

Rape survivors say they need stronger laws restricting rapists’ parental rights to keep themselves and their families safe

prismreports.org

Bounties on providers and women seeking abortions started in TX last year.

Texas abortion ban turns citizens into "bounty hunters"

Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor condemns law's "cash prizes" for citizens "prosecuting their neighbors' medical procedures."

www.cbsnews.com

Just FYI, fetuses don't have a heart let alone a heartbeat at 6 weeks.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Something else.... conservative rhetoric often acts as though there is a "silent majority" out there that agrees with them and may justify their authoritarianism on that angle. The existence of a "silent majority" may well have been true in 1972, but judging by the narrow margins (even lacking the popular vote in two out of three cases) with which conservatives have managed to secure the presidency, this seems to no longer be the case.

I think if you count people who value free speech and/or are irritated by aspects of PC culture, but otherwise lean to the left, then you have the rest of their so-called silent majority. This is why they beat the cancel culture and PC horses so frequently, because it's the only thing in their platform that really appeals to otherwise moderate or left-leaning voters.

But the increasingly authoritarian stances and push for mass book bannings isn't really doing them a lot of favors with actual 1st amendment supporters. I'm noticing more libertarian types starting to wake up to the realization that the GOP way is no longer an acceptable lesser evil. Pete Wells of VA is a good example. He used to be GOPer but defected to the Libertarians. Lately a lot of his FB posts are calling out republican hypocrisy and double standards and I notice he has a fair number of views that, if not necessarily in line with the dems, are certainly at odd with Trump's GOP

If the dems were smart they would try to form a temporary coalition with every third party going into 2022 and 2024 but they're stupid and won't do this.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Not only that. They would have to rise them and watch them in the eyes every day.

That can't be good for the kids either to grow up in that kind of situation.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I think if you count people who value free speech and/or are irritated by aspects of PC culture, but otherwise lean to the left, then you have the rest of their so-called silent majority. This is why they beat the cancel culture and PC horses so frequently, because it's the only thing in their platform that really appeals to otherwise moderate or left-leaning voters.

Right. But a lower-middle class or working class white person who doesn't want to be lectured to by a legacy PHD student about "white privilege" might be much more pro-abortion (or anti-banning books) than the garden-variety GOP jihadist. That seems to be something I've been seeing.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Right. But a lower-middle class or working class white person who doesn't want to be lectured to by a legacy PHD student about "white privilege" might be much more pro-abortion (or anti-banning books) than the garden-variety GOP jihadist. That seems to be something I've been seeing.

people are slowly waking up to the ugliness and ineffectiveness of the current GOP. The dems don't really need to beat their progressive drums all that much at this point. I think doubling down on the sociology phD speak this year will be a mistake and just create more stay home people on election day. The GOP is doing a good enough job of showing their true colors at this point, we really don't need dems anymore to tell us what is now becoming pretty visible.

 

[Virtual ghost]

That can't be good for the kids either to grow up in that kind of situation.

The irony is that this scenario evidently leads to fatherless children that are bothering them so much.
Also from what I understood in the bad hoods in US the rape isn't that uncommon (as well as prostitution in various forms). Therefore this ban will only add another layer of crap on everything. Especially since having healthcare as a human right is also a dangerous idea in US.

 

[ceecee]

Right. But a lower-middle class or working class white person who doesn't want to be lectured to by a legacy PHD student about "white privilege" might be much more pro-abortion (or anti-banning books) than the garden-variety GOP jihadist. That seems to be something I've been seeing.

This SCOTUS move is class war - a war on poor and working poor women. Period. Poverty is and has always been criminalized in the US, this is simply one more way of accomplishing it. Most women seek abortion are already having a financial hardship.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

people are slowly waking up to the ugliness and ineffectiveness of the current GOP. The dems don't really need to beat their progressive drums all that much at this point. I think doubling down on the sociology phD speak this year will be a mistake and just create more stay home people on election day. The GOP is doing a good enough job of showing their true colors at this point, we really don't need dems anymore to tell us what is now becoming pretty visible.

I think so too. For the record I do think white privilege is real as a concept but you can't just go around throwing that and demanding that people "recognize" it without even bothering to explain what it means (or even getting angry or offended if they don't seem to know). People need to understand their audience and know that not everyone has taken the same college courses they have.

 

[Coriolis]

Abortion isn't something at the top of my mind usually but if I stop and think about it for 30 seconds, it's messed up that if the pro-life people had their way, a rape victim would have to carry the baby to term.

I also think conservatives, if they could, would absolutely make an abortion ban a federal law. The stuff about local control is largely a smoke screen; it's just another one of those rules that Republicans make up and then abandon just as easily when it isn't convenient for their agenda.

If the "pro-life" people have their way, they will have government regulate many more aspects of our personal life, from whom we can marry to how we raise our children. Note the way these reactionaries are trying to penalize parents of transgender youth, in some places criminalizing the provision of medically necessary care. These same folks get up in arms if the school library so much as contains books they don't like, nevermind that they still have the right as parents to forbid their kids to read those books. Double standard all the way, same with that red herring "states' rights".

problem with republicans is they want to squash all resorts and avenues. No abortion? OK, so I assume you're in support of education on STD and pregnancy risks? Ohhh, against those as well? So how exactly do you plan to limit unwanted pregnancies?

Ignoring problems is a pretty failsafe method of addressing them and has never led to new, more complex problems. Insert quote by Calvin Coolidge here..

Welp, ok, I am sure abstinence only education will work magnificiently in limiting said unwanted pregnancies and reducing the burden on the social safety net they see as such a drag to their free markets and business models.

The ineffectiveness of abstinence-only sex ed is well-documented. This is just an other example of how modern conservatives eschew evidence in favor of ideology, especially pushing their religious sensibilities on everyone else.

Not only that. They would have to rise them and watch them in the eyes every day.

Not necessarily. Anti-choice people have always held out adoption as a valid "choice".

This supposed silent majority sure as shit doesn't seem to be turning up to vote in actual elections.

Americans will have shoddy government until voter turnout improves, especially among the groups negatively impacted by bad, even mean-spirited government policy. Yes, each of us has only one vote. Want more? Mobilize your friends and neighbors. Join a group trying to effect change on an issue important to you. Run for office if you can, even locally.

Facing (often republican-induced) hurdles to voting? Complain to your elected officials. Learn the rules and reach out to neighbors, friends, and groups so they don't stop you. In some nations, people risk their lives and safety to vote. Even the most obnoxious impediments to voting in the US pale in comparison to that. Things will get worse before they get better, and they won't get better without effort from everyone impacted, or concerned about those who are.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Not necessarily. Anti-choice people have always held out adoption as a valid "choice".

I know but my point was how unnatural is the outcome in this case if abortion is banned. Plus giving your child to adoption also has it's big bag of emotional problems.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Just for the record.
EU smells trouble, and Trump, in US abortion fight

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I think so too. For the record I do think white privilege is real as a concept but you can't just go around throwing that and demanding that people "recognize" it without even bothering to explain what it means (or even getting angry or offended if they don't seem to know). People need to understand their audience and know that not everyone has taken the same college courses they have.

it's certainly real. doesn't mean every white person is well off. the message gets so poorly relayed that poor whites hear about this privilege they are unable to see.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

If the "pro-life" people have their way, they will have government regulate many more aspects of our personal life, from whom we can marry to how we raise our children. Note the way these reactionaries are trying to penalize parents of transgender youth, in some places criminalizing the provision of medically necessary care. These same folks get up in arms if the school library so much as contains books they don't like, nevermind that they still have the right as parents to forbid their kids to read those books. Double standard all the way, same with that red herring "states' rights".

The ineffectiveness of abstinence-only sex ed is well-documented. This is just an other example of how modern conservatives eschew evidence in favor of ideology, especially pushing their religious sensibilities on everyone else.


Not necessarily. Anti-choice people have always held out adoption as a valid "choice".




Americans will have shoddy government until voter turnout improves, especially among the groups negatively impacted by bad, even mean-spirited government policy. Yes, each of us has only one vote. Want more? Mobilize your friends and neighbors. Join a group trying to effect change on an issue important to you. Run for office if you can, even locally.

Facing (often republican-induced) hurdles to voting? Complain to your elected officials. Learn the rules and reach out to neighbors, friends, and groups so they don't stop you. In some nations, people risk their lives and safety to vote. Even the most obnoxious impediments to voting in the US pale in comparison to that. Things will get worse before they get better, and they won't get better without effort from everyone impacted, or concerned about those who are.

As far as choices a majority of people have access to, for all intents and purposes, the republicans and religious right have no good solutions. Adoption is one of the most difficult processes to go through. Assuming one has the money to afford to even begin the process, there are so many other hurdles and many prospective parents are rejected. GOP wisdom is about offering solutions that aren't really well thought out, and in many cases aren't really viable options for many, yet they will continually drum on about said solutions as though they are fix-alls when anyone with a brain can see they're just empty lip service and drops in the bucket at best.

 

[Coriolis]

it's certainly real. doesn't mean every white person is well off. the message gets so poorly relayed that poor whites hear about this privilege they are unable to see.

Exactly. "White privilege" simply means that, other factors being equal, the white person will have an advantage.

As far as choices a majority of people have access to, for all intents and purposes, the republicans and religious right have no good solutions. Adoption is one of the most difficult processes to go through. Assuming one has the money to afford to even begin the process, there are so many other hurdles and many prospective parents are rejected. GOP wisdom is about offering solutions that aren't really well thought out, and in many cases aren't really viable options for many, yet they will continually drum on about said solutions as though they are fix-alls when anyone with a brain can see they're just empty lip service and drops in the bucket at best.

Adoption is easy, at least logistically, for the person giving up a child. I agree overall, about the lack of good solutions, especially from religious fundamentalists. But then I doubt they are actually trying to solve problems. Pushing their own religious views and morality on everyone else seems their real goal.

 

[ceecee]

I think so too. For the record I do think white privilege is real as a concept but you can't just go around throwing that and demanding that people "recognize" it without even bothering to explain what it means (or even getting angry or offended if they don't seem to know). People need to understand their audience and know that not everyone has taken the same college courses they have.

This article is over 30 years old but it's the easiest thing to use when talking to people that don't understand what white privilege is.

https://psychology.umbc.edu/files/2016/10/White-Privilege_McIntosh-1989.pdf

 

[Luminous]

They have already done this in multiple states.

In multiple states, rapists can sue their victims for parental custody

Rape survivors say they need stronger laws restricting rapists’ parental rights to keep themselves and their families safe

prismreports.org

Bounties on providers and women seeking abortions started in TX last year.

Texas abortion ban turns citizens into "bounty hunters"

Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor condemns law's "cash prizes" for citizens "prosecuting their neighbors' medical procedures."

www.cbsnews.com

Just FYI, fetuses don't have a heart let alone a heartbeat at 6 weeks.

The hatred of women, the thought that they're evil, that somehow women + sex = the downfall of the world and devil worship makes me simultaneously want to vomit, throw myself downstairs, and cut off the reproductive organs of these people.

By all means, the people who think victims of violence should suffer physically, emotionally, financially, spiritually, socially more than they already have; that the life of a woman is less valuable than the life of someone who can't live without her; that women need to be subjugated; that fetuses who will grow into babies who will suffer horribly before dying horribly should be carried to term; that it's okay to harass women who've miscarried and are grieving; are so clearly prolife. There's no empathy for anyone shown by these people.

The fact that people argue it should be decided at the state level, that it should be decided by the majority, makes it clear it's not about empathy for anyone for them, whether the woman, or the person that fetus might possibly grow into. It's about punishing women (for Eve's apple eating, I guess), and power. It's vile.

 

[EcK]

So states will decide instead. Good.

 

[EcK]

S

The hatred of women, the thought that they're evil, that somehow women + sex = the downfall of the world and devil worship makes me simultaneously want to vomit, throw myself downstairs, and cut off the reproductive organs of these people.

By all means, the people who think victims of violence should suffer physically, emotionally, financially, spiritually, socially more than they already have; that the life of a woman is less valuable than the life of someone who can't live without her; that women need to be subjugated; that fetuses who will grow into babies who will suffer horribly before dying horribly should be carried to term; that it's okay to harass women who've miscarried and are grieving; are so clearly prolife. There's no empathy for anyone shown by these people.

The fact that people argue it should be decided at the state level, that it should be decided by the majority, makes it clear it's not about empathy for anyone for them, whether the woman, or the person that fetus might possibly grow into. It's about punishing women (for Eve's apple eating, I guess), and power. It's vile.

seems a bit cartoonish no ? I don’t know one person opposing abortion who is even remotely represented by this. That’s akin to saying all people who are pro abortion are for it solely for the sick pleasure of creating then murdering babies. Come the fuck on lol, you’re smarter than this.

 

[Luminous]

seems a bit cartoonish no ? I don’t know one person opposing abortion who is even remotely represented by this. That’s akin to saying all people who are pro abortion are for it solely for the sick pleasure of creating then murdering babies. Come the fuck on lol, you’re smarter than this.

I didn't mean that all people against abortion are this way. However, those who are against all of them strongly strike me this way. There's different levels of this to me. There's the cases where the mother would die. There's the cases where the baby would die or the fetus couldn't develop normally. There's cases of rape. It's inhumane to me that anyone could be for forcing a continuation of horror and pain in these cases.

Then there's the other cases where it's about whether women should be able to control what happens to their bodies, their families, their lives. About financial hardship, about poverty, about making very difficult decisions. I think plenty of people on both sides have empathy for all involved here.

When does it extend to birth control? When will it become neighbors reporting unwed couples having sex? When will it extend to vibrators? The length a woman's skirt needs to be?