Random thoughts on Intuition and Sensing

[sarah]

For what it's worth, I don't think your original post was insulting to Sensors, and honestly I think the oversensitive "OMG yer senser-bashing!" type reactions to innocent questions are just as annoying as the "ESTJs need to all die cuz i hate my dad" type of posts.

Jeffster, you and I are such polar opposites on nearly everything, that I'm not surprised you think I'm oversensitive. As you know, I detest the terms Sensor and Intuitive, because people use both. Using terms like that suggests that people are limited to only one function, and I hate limitations. I don't just 'sense' stuff, and people who prefer intuition don't just 'intuit' stuff. But I know this is yet another thing we totally disagree on.

I guess you and I are a good example of how it's possible to be totally opposite in nearly every way possible and still have the same psychological type preferences.

 

[BlueScreen]

Well I have no problem with that, with clarification. That's mostly why I come here anyway.

The problem I do have is unnecessary agression (and unwarranted I might add) and when people assume I stand for things that I don't stand for, and make judgments based on these false assumptions. I do take offense to that.

Again I might have not been clear enough on my post, but I do not have a problem with alternate points of view, or with the fact that I could be wrong.
Hell, that's exactly why I posted this in the first place, for the opportunity to hear from both sides, to confer, to reject or to accept, in short to learn. I was merely speculating, capice?

Crucify me already...

I'll supply the music...

It's all good. There are Fe/Fi differences that cause these things in threads sometimes. You'll get used to it once you post a bit. It isn't a big deal. Fi has some blind spots for Fe, and Fe has some for Fi. Your intention never seemed to be bad though. The post just incurred some collateral, because it involved gain by competitive comparison. You saw the sunsets in a way some others couldn't, etc. Others couldn't, ended up being the thing noticed, even though the thing you were excited about was your potential uniqueness.

 

[Travo7]

^
Yeah, one problem, I think anyway, is that I prefer to give a general idea rather than go into it deeply, with all the nuances and details, for the sake of not having a gigantic, super-huge post that no one wants to read.

I mean, the whole "..it looks like a monet" was the tip of the iceberg that led into a more in-depth discussion that would be totally overwhelming to post here. I was just trying to give overall gist of what actually happened.

In no way was I implying that my father, or any other type was incapable of depth of thought, or appreciating beauty. The post wasn't even really about appreciating beauty per se, which I suppose is my fault for being to vague, and assuming that others would simply understand what I was saying.

oh well.

 

[entropie]

The point of this story: This sounds, to me at least, like an example of the iNtuitive way of thinking clashing with the world of the Sensor's. For example, my dad (ESTJ) would look out the window and think about the driving conditions, how cold it was, which coat he would use, and whether or not he would have to leave early for work, due to the fog. Something along those lines. However, this morning my mother (ENFP) saw something way beyond what was actually there, via her imagination/creativity.

Well I guess I am a ESTJ after all.

No I dont relate this to intuition or sensing, because those too are subconcious irrational processes. That is the main fact, why they are so hard to explain. Your presentation of things sounds more like a conflict between personalized felt view and objective reality.

 

[Travo7]

^

that's fine. thanks for your input.

 

[entropie]

the best description for intuition, I got so far, does hardly scratch on the surface of things but points somebody completly new to the topic in a right direction:

If you search in google for for example "Vista Home +download +ftp", because you are looking for a ftp server to download windows vista from and you get as result the "Home ftp server", which is a tool to create your own ftp server on your computer, you have experienced a sensory analysis google created out of the words. Google presented you possible word combinations and while google is a Sensing machine that strongly concentrates on the words, it lacks the intuition to see the relation between them.

So intuition means to focus on connections between objects, while sensing means to focus on the object. A strong side in one direction means a lack of experience in the other direction, but everybody has both. Another important thing is that this process oinly creates information. Sensory created information are for example to see the shape of a car. Intuitive information are to speculate about its engine power from the look of the shape. But if you start to say this is a "nice" car or you say this car looks "pratical", you start evaluating it that means you judge it. And judging is a rational function, namely T or F.

Thats by the way a good example to explain irrational behaviour within people. They do something because they have seen something, gotten some information, but their actions occur, before they made a judgement on how to proceed.

Just keep in mind this example is highly factual and needs to be totally rewritten, when it should be applied to humans. But the overall concept points into the right direction.

 

[Jeffster]

Jeffster, you and I are such polar opposites on nearly everything, that I'm not surprised you think I'm oversensitive. As you know, I detest the terms Sensor and Intuitive, because people use both. Using terms like that suggests that people are limited to only one function, and I hate limitations. I don't just 'sense' stuff, and people who prefer intuition don't just 'intuit' stuff. But I know this is yet another thing we totally disagree on.

I guess you and I are a good example of how it's possible to be totally opposite in nearly every way possible and still have the same psychological type preferences.

Really? I didn't think we were totally opposite in nearly every way possible, but maybe I haven't paid attention well.

 

[wolfy]

Do you have a license for that moon key?

This was an interesting thread to read through. I'll say that much.

Some good points by Uber through it.

If my wife told me the sky looks like a Monet. I think I'd say "I need some money".

 

[Ism]

Well, I don't think that only Intuits see something in a more metaphorical sense, or are the only ones that can put two and two together. That's probably not what you were intending on projecting, but I don't think that particular incident reflects the N/S divide very well.

It could've been that the SJs just weren't interested. If you're father is on his way to work, he's probably not going to stop and say "Wow, Honey. You're right!", since his mind is focused on going to work on time. And your boss's husband works for a Philosophy class, and it wouldn't be too surprising if he happened to know about or relate to art. Their occupations might also explain why the boss herself wasn't interested, since she works for an office, not something that really lends itself to the more artsy subjects.

Besides, I know a few people who would be just as dismissive, regardless of their type.

(I hope I don't sound too critical, I'm just saying.)

 

[Stanton Moore]

Then dang, every single person who prefers Sensing does that too. So there's no difference at all between you and me. There -- how's that? Forget Intuition -- forget Sensing -- they don't exist. You and I do both to an equal degree. We can all throw type theory away now because it's useless.

And yes, it's deeply insulting and just plain WRONG, this whole suggestion that Sensing means only noticing depressing things and never beauty!! And yes, that does feel like bashing to me -- it totally goes against everything I live for.

I agree. This artificial S/N divide is a shortcoming of the theory, or at least of peoples's understanding of it's application and use.
There seems to be a belief that functions exist in little boxes, separate from one another, and it just ain't so. We all use all of the functions in a fluid way everyday. There is no differentiation, just subtle shifts in coloration and mood.
The brain sure doesn't work according to MBTI. Why do we assume that behavior would?

 

[SaltyWench]

I was visiting my mother (who is an iNtuitive type) the other day for breakfast, and on the way out she commented on how beautiful the day was.

"Do you see the trees and the sky? It's like a monet or something." She said.

Despite it being cold, rainy, and foggy, I could totally relate to what she was saying. I have deeply felt this way on many an occasion, where beauty seems to inspire your imagination etc... My father (ESTJ), on the other hand, simply replied:


"Mmhmm, right. Well, see you later," in a rather dismissive tone, and left for work.


She told me later that, at the office, she commented on the same thing with her boss and good friend (SJ, I suspect) along with her husband, a philosophy professor (NT, I believe).

Her boss smiled somewhat condescendingly, and uttered a quick "Whatever," while the professor's eyes lit up:


"Ahh, exactly! I know exactly what you mean."



The point of this story: This sounds, to me at least, like an example of the iNtuitive way of thinking clashing with the world of the Sensor's. For example, my dad (ESTJ) would look out the window and think about the driving conditions, how cold it was, which coat he would use, and whether or not he would have to leave early for work, due to the fog. Something along those lines. However, this morning my mother (ENFP) saw something way beyond what was actually there, via her imagination/creativity.

I'm not trying to absolutize anything here, for I'm sure Sensors have thoughts like these too, nor am I saying one type is better than the other, but in general:

Do any iNtuitive types relate at all to this? Or have this kind of response from Sensors when you open up to them?

What about you Sensors?

When I am presented with a situation such as the one stated above, my reaction will vary depending on who I am interacting with. If I were the boss in the above equation and if we were supposed to be getting work done, I would probably act exactly the same way.

However, if one of my friends or loved ones were to present me with an observation such as that, I would stop whatever thought pattern was currently firing and I would take the time to assess the accuracy of their statement by taking a good long look outside, comparing the sensory data to my criteria of what makes a painting look impressionistic, since that's the style Monet was famous for. I would then agree based on what correlated, if anything. Does everything look misty and abstract? Etc.

In cases where I just can't see what the hell they're talking about I'll still say something along the lines of "I appreciate your way of viewing the world." and then probably suggest something along the lines of taking up painting... etc. It's important for my special ones to feel like they are valued as individuals.

 

[garbage]

Pedants come in all types, even intuitive.

but they're mostly tj

 

[mortabunt]

This is very similar to how things go between N and S.

 

[MrME]

I suspect a better example would be an N seeing the fog and associating it with something that would seem random and unrelated to a sensor, while another intuitive might actually be able to understand how the other N made the association. (Key word: might.)

N1: That fog reminds me of how sick I was last week.
S1: Whatever.
N2: Oh, yeah, I can totally see that.