Random Star Trek thoughts

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

The Naked Now is the cringiest episode of TNG. I think people need to skip season 1 entirely and half of the season 2 episodes if they're starting this series for the first time. Even the lighting and the uniforms look like shit in those first couple of seasons. Speaking of lighting and uniforms, it's always been weird to me to see the transition from the series to Generations. Same sets but with darker movie lighting. I think the bridge looks better in Generations, but certain other sets like Ten Forward look much better in the series. It's also weird as hell seeing the crew in DS9/Voyager style jumpsuits in TNG. I always thought the jumpsuits were cool, but seeing the crew go back and forth between the two styles in that movie is a bit jarring. I hate the later TNG movie uniforms with the grey shoulders. I find them a bit drab, the collars look goofy, and overall they just look big and uncomfortable. They make the actors' heads look small, like David Byrne's big suit from Stop Making Sense.

although the season 1 episode Conspiracy is a definite guilty pleasure for me.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I kind of want to do an experiment and watch TNG, DS9, Voyager and the TNG films in chronological order, alternating back and forth between the series. There's actually a blog devoted to listing every single episode and film in chronological in-universe order. The Star Trek Chronology Project

Been wanting to do this for a while but avoided it because it just seems so tedious and it means getting through some of those crappier early DS9 episodes to get to the good shit later.

 

[Totenkindly]

Her demeanor was kinda stern and critical, so she felt really scoldy. She had an anxious energy about her as well which isn't 'bad', but it can make people feel uncomfortable. It can mean less charisma.

Crusher is more Fe, Polaski ... uh... wasn't.

So I guess it depends on your doctor preference. Crusher was more idealistic, more prone to attach broad ethical values to her actions, more romanticized. Polaski on the other hand was crustier and more apt to just "tell you like it is." She wasn't mean, but she didn't muck around either -- she's gonna diagnose your problem and get it fixed in a much more direct way, rather than like Bev getting a little lost in her idealism and feelings.

Put another way, Crusher is like a highly produced, big-institution medical ethicist, and Polaski's like a Scottish country doctor making the rounds and working in coarse settings as pragmatically as possible.

Dr Pulaski never boned a 19th century ghost

No, and in fact she'd tell the ghost exactly what killed him and how she would have fixed it if he were still alive.

 

[FemMecha]

Crusher is more Fe, Polaski ... uh... wasn't.

So I guess it depends on your doctor preference. Crusher was more idealistic, more prone to attach broad ethical values to her actions, more romanticized. Polaski on the other hand was crustier and more apt to just "tell you like it is." She wasn't mean, but she didn't muck around either -- she's gonna diagnose your problem and get it fixed in a much more direct way, rather than like Bev getting a little lost in her idealism and feelings.

Put another way, Crusher is like a highly produced, big-institution medical ethicist, and Polaski's like a Scottish country doctor making the rounds and working in coarse settings as pragmatically as possible.

I like your descriptions and contrast. I think they were trying to recreate the tension between Bones and Spock with Polaski and Data, but it somehow didn't quite work imo. I don't know that I prefer Crusher, but understand why people in general would because she has a softer, more Fe presentation. Data is so beloved, so posing Polaski as contrarian gave her character little hope of acceptance. Also, Bones represented the subjective and humanized perspective vs. Mr. Spock. Polaski was more like Data, so instead of foils, they were competitors dramatically, but I think also unintentionally. I think they should have gone the opposite way where she was more aligned with Data and at odds with someone else. If Data is a robot searching for humanity, maybe make Polaski a human searching for pure objectivity? IDK. I get that something didn't work.

On a personal evaluation level she made me feel a little anxious and I was always going to side with Data. I actually kinda don't like Riker. He annoys me. (That last sentence seems random, but I deleted the part where I said they should have posed Polaski against Riker).

 

[Totenkindly]

I like your descriptions and contrast. I think they were trying to recreate the tension between Bones and Spock with Polaski and Data, but it somehow didn't quite work imo. I don't know that I prefer Crusher, but understand why people in general would because she has a softer, more Fe presentation. Data is so beloved, so posing Polaski as contrarian gave her character little hope of acceptance. Also, Bones represented the subjective and humanized perspective vs. Mr. Spock. Polaski was more like Data, so instead of foils, they were competitors dramatically, but I think also unintentionally. I think they should have gone the opposite way where she was more aligned with Data and at odds with someone else. If Data is a robot searching for humanity, maybe make Polaski a human searching for pure objectivity? IDK. I get that something didn't work.

On a personal evaluation level she made me feel a little anxious and I was always going to side with Data. I actually kinda don't like Riker. He annoys me. (That last sentence seems random, but I deleted the part where I said they should have posed Polaski against Riker).

I never much liked Riker either, although his personality is different than mine and that's part of it. I actually liked him more in his after-TOS appearances, esp in the Picard series.

I usually do think of Bones too whenever I think of Polaski. I think you are correct there.

I thought your comment about Polaski maybe working better as a "human searching for pure objectivity" to be intriguing.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I can see why Pulaski wasn't the best fit for TNG. I could have seen her being a far better fit on DS9. It's a shame the actress got burned out by trek, because I'd have liked her as a return guest, perhaps in a later TNG season or DS9. Like, imagine her having been one of Julian's mentors at the academy or something of that nature.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I like your descriptions and contrast. I think they were trying to recreate the tension between Bones and Spock with Polaski and Data, but it somehow didn't quite work imo. I don't know that I prefer Crusher, but understand why people in general would because she has a softer, more Fe presentation. Data is so beloved, so posing Polaski as contrarian gave her character little hope of acceptance. Also, Bones represented the subjective and humanized perspective vs. Mr. Spock. Polaski was more like Data, so instead of foils, they were competitors dramatically, but I think also unintentionally. I think they should have gone the opposite way where she was more aligned with Data and at odds with someone else. If Data is a robot searching for humanity, maybe make Polaski a human searching for pure objectivity? IDK. I get that something didn't work.

On a personal evaluation level she made me feel a little anxious and I was always going to side with Data. I actually kinda don't like Riker. He annoys me. (That last sentence seems random, but I deleted the part where I said they should have posed Polaski against Riker).

I don't like Riker as a character, but I like Riker episodes, if that makes any sense. I think he was a bit more of an everyman, so it worked placing him in situations that Data or Geordi or even Worf might handle more easily. Like there's the one where he thinks he's 14 years in the future and I feel like some of the other characters would've figured out they were in a simulation fairly quickly. So he makes a good stand-in for the viewer, making us identify more with some of those situations. Plus it's fun to watching people fuck with Riker.

 

[FemMecha]

I don't like Riker as a character, but I like Riker episodes, if that makes any sense. I think he was a bit more of an everyman, so it worked placing him in situations that Data or Geordi or even Worf might handle more easily. Like there's the one where he thinks he's 14 years in the future and I feel like some of the other characters would've figured out they were in a simulation fairly quickly. So he makes a good stand-in for the viewer, making us identify more with some of those situations. Plus it's fun to watching people fuck with Riker.

Riker is very conventional, a bit arrogant, but a somewhat cardboard version of the guy who 'has it all'. He's a bit of an anti-nerd, so naturally at odds with a lot of the fan base. He's not really another Kirk who was actually a bit odd, and so more unique. Kirk is actually a really weird guy that manages to be cool. Riker doesn't quite pull that off, but is more standard.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Riker is very conventional, a bit arrogant, but a somewhat cardboard version of the guy who 'has it all'. He's a bit of an anti-nerd, so naturally at odds with a lot of the fan base. He's not really another Kirk who was actually a bit odd, and so more unique. Kirk is actually a really weird guy that manages to be cool. Riker doesn't quite pull that off, but is more standard.

Yeah I always thought Kirk was actually a lot more cerebral and logical, even slightly on the nerdy side, than many of the popular impressions of him. Like in the new JJ Abrams movies, I thought they based Kirk more on impressions of the character. The whole "shoots first, asks questions later" and idea that he bangs every woman in sight is an exaggeration. I'd say Kirk is actually closer to Picard than to Riker in temperament, as he maintains a certain distance from his crew like Picard does. Whereas Riker wants to be everyone's buddy and play poker. He's also generally pretty cautious and doesn't do the shoot first thing all that much. Archer was a lot more like what people tend to picture Kirk as, IMO.

Also, we know Picard was a bit more brash and adventurous as a younger man, and I imagine he was very similar to Kirk before he mellowed out and gained more wisdom in his middle age. I'm generally turned off by prequels but I wouldn't mind a series or movie exploring Picard's days as captain of the stargazer. He was roughly the same age as Kirk in TOS when he first became a captain. And Kirk kind of mellows and becomes more Picardish in his middle age in the movies. They're a lot more alike than different. Like there's a scene in Wrath of Khan where Kirk is sipping a drink and reading a book in his quarters, wearing his reading glasses, and it reminds me a bit of Picard in TNG

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I don't like Riker as a character, but I like Riker episodes, if that makes any sense. I think he was a bit more of an everyman, so it worked placing him in situations that Data or Geordi or even Worf might handle more easily. Like there's the one where he thinks he's 14 years in the future and I feel like some of the other characters would've figured out they were in a simulation fairly quickly. So he makes a good stand-in for the viewer, making us identify more with some of those situations. Plus it's fun to watching people fuck with Riker.

What did you think of Riker's beef with his dad? It came off as a little childish to me.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

What did you think of Riker's beef with his dad? It came off as a little childish to me.

Riker often comes across like a spoiled brat to me. This episode included.

Have you seen the one with Ronny Cox (bad guy in Robocop and Total Recall) as Captain Jellico? Had a thought about this one but didn’t want to spoil it if you haven’t seen it.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Riker often comes across like a spoiled brat to me. This episode included.

Yeah, that's what I felt about it. I didn't think his dad was enough a dick to justify cutting off contact like that.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I have always thought there was a weird family dynamic with TNG, with Picard as the obvious father figure. Dr Crusher is of course the mother figure. Everyone else are the children. Riker is the oldest son, so he has that entitled attitude you sometimes see with oldest brothers in multi-sibling families--Dad always leaves him in charge when he's out of the house, but he's cool enough to throw parties when mom and dad are gone, even though that means he will insist on playing his trombone for everyone. Data is the child with aspergers, the savant who always says inappropriate things or misinterprets social cues, yet everyone loves him regardless. Worf, Geordi and Troi are the middle siblings. Geordi aspires to be like his oldest brother the ladies man and jock Riker, but always strikes out with the ladies and will just never be as popular as his older brother, though he's the most popular kid in the school AV club and at least the geeky kids look up to him. Worf is the hardass brother who always follows the rules and is most obedient to the parents. Troi is the most sensitive child. And of course Wesley is the youngest child. Guinan is the cool aunt. Q is the asshole uncle who sometimes shows up at family reunions and everyone hates because he always goes out of his way to piss everyone else off, yet deep inside he is a decent person and cares for his family, just has a fucked up way of showing it.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I have always thought there was a weird family dynamic with TNG, with Picard as the obvious father figure. Dr Crusher is of course the mother figure. Everyone else are the children. Riker is the oldest son, so he has that entitled attitude you sometimes see with oldest brothers in multi-sibling families--Dad always leaves him in charge when he's out of the house, but he's cool enough to throw parties when mom and dad are gone, even though that means he will insist on playing his trombone for everyone. Data is the child with aspergers, the savant who always says inappropriate things or misinterprets social cues, yet everyone loves him regardless. Worf, Geordi and Troi are the middle siblings. Geordi aspires to be like his oldest brother the ladies man and jock Riker, but always strikes out with the ladies and will just never be as popular as his older brother, though he's the most popular kid in the school AV club and at least the geeky kids look up to him. Worf is the hardass brother who always follows the rules and is most obedient to the parents. Troi is the most sensitive child. And of course Wesley is the youngest child. Guinan is the cool aunt. Q is the asshole uncle who sometimes shows up at family reunions and everyone hates because he always goes out of his way to piss everyone else off, yet deep inside he is a decent person and cares for his family, just has a fucked up way of showing it.

I like the description of Q as an asshole uncle.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

This edit does a decent job of showing the stages of an LSD trip.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Speaking of Ronny Cox

 

[Totenkindly]

Today is Transgender Day of Recognition, so my friend Rebecca Heineman posted something on FB about that. Yeah, she has her own wiki page... she's also married to Jennell Jaquays, who is well known in the RPG industry as an artist and game designer.

Well, tying this back to Star Trek -- lo and behold David Gerrold posts something to her, I guess they are friends. (Why not?)

David Gerrold is the "Trouble with Tribbles" guy and a bunch of other things Trek. I knew I recognized his name as I read her feed. it's also cool because he's 77 but very supportive and was influential in the planning for STTNG.

I wish our real political villains were as classy as Ronny Cox.

at least he had the decency to come out unapologetically as villainous rather than trying to gaslight everyone.

There is nothing quite like watching Ronny Cox unabashedly chewing the scenery to smithereens. he takes particular devilish delight in his awfulness.

It's not perfect, in fact, I would say it's worse than Riker's relationship with his dad, but I don't see it being bad enough to cut off all contact. Like Riker was traumatized because his dad cheated at combat rod or something? It just seems like something I would have been able to handle. For fuck's sake, they even cooked together. I wish my Dad would have done stuff like that (if my mom had died I probably would have starved... he doesn't tend to regard spending money on food as being as high a priority as spending money on TV and cable) It seemed like his dad invested a lot of effort into spending time around him despite his career, and wasn't prone to throwing childish temper tantrums about things. So what if he felt like he had to live up to something? I think Riker had it pretty good and was just acting like a whiny teenager.

I haven't seen that particular episode for like 20 or more years and I recall it not being one of my favorite... I don't think I ever rewatched it. But I think I remember feeling the same way -- like okay, you're not really selling his dad as horrible, but whatever, I can't change any of the script. I mean, they didn't even cast a real type A nasty guy as his dad, it was kind of this gruff-but-kind character actor who i've seen with a similar persona in other shows/films, Mitchell Ryan. (Maybe his earlier films were different, but I'm just talking since I've been watching stuff since 1990 onwards.)

Riker definitely scanned as one of those extroverted guys who likes to be everyone's friend, look competent, being in charge, and also being a bit sensitive to criticism and easily wounded -- like he'd take it on the surface at first but it all easily eats at him and quickly comes out, and he gets all weird about it.

I felt he had grown up a bit and seemed more stable in Picard.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Today is Transgender Day of Recognition, so my friend Rebecca Heineman posted something on FB about that. Yeah, she has her own wiki page... she's also married to Jennell Jaquays, who is well known in the RPG industry as an artist and game designer.

Well, tying this back to Star Trek -- lo and behold David Gerrold posts something to her, I guess they are friends. (Why not?)

David Gerrold is the "Trouble with Tribbles" guy and a bunch of other things Trek. I knew I recognized his name as I read her feed. it's also cool because he's 77 but very supportive and was influential in the planning for STTNG.



at least he had the decency to come out unapologetically as villainous rather than trying to gaslight everyone.

There is nothing quite like watching Ronny Cox unabashedly chewing the scenery to smithereens. he takes particular devilish delight in his awfulness.



I haven't seen that particular episode for like 20 or more years and I recall it not being one of my favorite... I don't think I ever rewatched it. But I think I remember feeling the same way -- like okay, you're not really selling his dad as horrible, but whatever, I can't change any of the script. I mean, they didn't even cast a real type A nasty guy as his dad, it was kind of this gruff-but-kind character actor who i've seen with a similar persona in other shows/films, Mitchell Ryan. (Maybe his earlier films were different, but I'm just talking since I've been watching stuff since 1990 onwards.)

Riker definitely scanned as one of those extroverted guys who likes to be everyone's friend, look competent, being in charge, and also being a bit sensitive to criticism and easily wounded -- like he'd take it on the surface at first but it all easily eats at him and quickly comes out, and he gets all weird about it.

I felt he had grown up a bit and seemed more stable in Picard.

I’ve talked to Gerrold on FB, he’s a really cool dude.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Speaking of Ronny Cox, the funny thing about his TNG role is he’s not particularly villainous in that episode. He’s just a taskmaster. Otherwise, he comes across as a pretty good guy, an interesting contrast to Picard. I’m not sure if the writer of that episode intended his character to come across negatively or not, it’s peculiar because I thought he did a good job as a wartime captain

Riker, Geordi and to a lesser extent Troi come across as total babies in that episode. Worf is worf, and Beverly is Beverly

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Why it’s not always a great idea to give actors more control in the writers room. I’m convinced that Stewart had little grasp on the character of Picard. He’s kind of an idiot and should not have a say in the story process. This is why the TNG movies and PIC ruined the character. It’s like watching a different character