[sp] Push and pull: sp/sx

[21%]

I've always noticed this push-pull energy in myself. Sometimes there are those few people I would like to connect deeply with and I crave being with them. It's strong, intense, and 'devouring'. I find myself bordering on obsession and I actively seek all sorts of contact with them. However, once I make progress -- once a new level of intimacy has been reached, I get scared. I pull myself back, I try to run, usually without the person knowing. But after I do that, the cycle starts again and I long for that deep connection once more.

I find this extremely frustrating and I really hate myself for it. It's like I can't decide what I want. At first I thought it was a 4w5 thing -- longing for emotion intensity but afraid of being overwhelmed, but then I was thinking that this might be an sp/sx characteristic.

So, sp/sx's, can you relate at all? Most of the time I keep people at a distance, but when I start letting someone in, I go through endless loops of pull and push. At least I feel closer to them after each loop, though -- I just hope it won't be like this forever

Of course, opinions from other types will be greatly appreciated too!

 

[gromit]

It might be an sp/sx or sx/sp thing. I was just thinking about this one too actually and how I have observed it in my life a little bit. As far as I'm aware I'm a 9w8 (not sure on the wing) sx/sp or sp/sx. I think with time you learn to moderate the intensity of both sides of the cycle... that has been my experience. I've learned to moderate it somewhat, but definitely not entirely.

 

[Phantonym]

I identify with sp/so but I can definitely feel the push-pull energy within myself as well. Thus far I've always attributed it to being 4w5. It doesn't really resemble obsession and I don't actively seek out the connection with people but it is a constant cycle that comes and goes and gives me a lot of heartache and doubts, unfortunately.

Most of the time I keep people at a distance, but when I start letting someone in, I go through endless loops of pull and push. At least I feel closer to them after each loop...

This is something I can very much relate to.

 

[Charmed Justice]

I could strongly relate when I was younger(early 20's and under); particularly regarding specific people. I most identify with sx/so 9w1.

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

I've always noticed this push-pull energy in myself. Sometimes there are those few people I would like to connect deeply with and I crave being with them. It's strong, intense, and 'devouring'. I find myself bordering on obsession and I actively seek all sorts of contact with them. However, once I make progress -- once a new level of intimacy has been reached, I get scared. I pull myself back, I try to run, usually without the person knowing. But after I do that, the cycle starts again and I long for that deep connection once more.

I find this extremely frustrating and I really hate myself for it. It's like I can't decide what I want. At first I thought it was a 4w5 thing -- longing for emotion intensity but afraid of being overwhelmed, but then I was thinking that this might be an sp/sx characteristic.

So, sp/sx's, can you relate at all? Most of the time I keep people at a distance, but when I start letting someone in, I go through endless loops of pull and push. At least I feel closer to them after each loop, though -- I just hope it won't be like this forever

Of course, opinions from other types will be greatly appreciated too!

Yes, I can identify with this extremely well.... it has often made me crazy, and I dislike my behavior which results from this push-and-pull-drive...aargh. I am afraid I don't have any good "advice" to give, since I have not been able to "sort it out" for myself....I'm also beginning to think that I should just accept this as being part of myself, and that there is no way to really sort it out, but to handle it..... and I know an IN?J friend who is very similar on this... And I also believe I am an sp/sx, and a 4, even though I am unsure of my wing....

 

[wolfy]

I've more often wanted to keep people close to me and been consistent. I relate best to 9w8 sp/sx. I see more of a push pull dynamic in people and agendas than in relationships and emotional connection.

 

[angell_m]

I've always noticed this push-pull energy in myself. Sometimes there are those few people I would like to connect deeply with and I crave being with them. It's strong, intense, and 'devouring'. I find myself bordering on obsession and I actively seek all sorts of contact with them. However, once I make progress -- once a new level of intimacy has been reached, I get scared. I pull myself back, I try to run, usually without the person knowing. But after I do that, the cycle starts again and I long for that deep connection once more.

I find this extremely frustrating and I really hate myself for it. It's like I can't decide what I want. At first I thought it was a 4w5 thing -- longing for emotion intensity but afraid of being overwhelmed, but then I was thinking that this might be an sp/sx characteristic.

So, sp/sx's, can you relate at all? Most of the time I keep people at a distance, but when I start letting someone in, I go through endless loops of pull and push. At least I feel closer to them after each loop, though -- I just hope it won't be like this forever

Of course, opinions from other types will be greatly appreciated too!

My "fear" stops before I feel the need to run, in fact what I feel is just a warning that gives insight of possibilities. The only thing I'm afraid of is acting too obsessed, which makes me hold back my overwhelming what-ever-it-is. But the bolded part is about right.

 

[WoodsWoman]

INFP 4w5 sp/sx
I relate.

 

[21%]

Thanks everyone for your contribution!

This is very interesting! So far, it seems 4s, especially 4w5s can generally relate, so it might be a 4w5 thing after all.

I identify with sp/so but I can definitely feel the push-pull energy within myself as well. Thus far I've always attributed it to being 4w5. It doesn't really resemble obsession and I don't actively seek out the connection with people but it is a constant cycle that comes and goes and gives me a lot of heartache and doubts, unfortunately.

Wow, this might illustrate the difference between secondary sx and secondary so. How do you feel this 'pull'? I've always have this idea that sx is more like a fishing rod while so is more like a net, but generally I still find introverted with so a bit puzzling. (As in "Where the heck do you get all that energy to connect with people? )


It also seems that acceptance types (6,9) do not really feel a strong emotional push. I guess it could be that their E-types already favor connecting and belonging, so sp doesn't manifest itself as a desire to run away screaming. But then, again, Charmed Justice also experiences this as a 9w1...

So, perhaps it is not entirely a 4w5 thing, but just an effect of the conflicting nature of adjacent enneagram types?

More opinions are welcome

 

[Coriolis]

I am 5w6 sp/sx, or possibly sx/sp, with so a very distant third. To me, personal relationships are often all or nothing. My default posture is to keep all people at a distance and to allow only the interaction necessary to accomplish what needs to be done. Now and then, I run into someone who merits more attention, and justifies more risk. If I find I have finally discovered another kindred spirit (and this is how I often see them), I will take the plunge and allow the relationship to become as deep and intense as we can bear. This really does feel like diving into a bottomless pit, not necessarily in a negative sense, though it can be scary if done fast. I cannot become close to someone this way in a group setting, even if we initially meet that way, and group interactions are always much less comfortable and enjoyable.

 

[Phantonym]

Wow, this might illustrate the difference between secondary sx and secondary so. How do you feel this 'pull'? I've always have this idea that sx is more like a fishing rod while so is more like a net, but generally I still find introverted with so a bit puzzling. (As in "Where the heck do you get all that energy to connect with people? )

Haha. Yeah, the so being like a net is a good way of putting it. It is a surge of energy, like a certain time period where I do feel that I'm able to engage in everything and everybody and people seem to pick that up and gravitate towards me without me having to put much effort in it really. I like to think of it this way that I open the possibility, but it is they who take up on it.

 

[Thalassa]

As an sx/sp I have this too, but I think with sx first the pull is stronger than the push...we more actively seek out the intimacy, and do slightly less pushing, and I think sp/sx do push-pull, but are vice versa, like more guarded with their pulling.

 

[speculative]

This is very interesting! So far, it seems 4s, especially 4w5s can generally relate, so it might be a 4w5 thing after all.

It's a known 4 thing, in the literature. Interesting to see other types' spin on it though.

 

[Thalassa]

Yep I'm a 4.

 

[Chloe]

It's a known 4 thing, in the literature. Interesting to see other types' spin on it though.

yep, it's pretty much more 4's thing than related to instincts, as you can see all 4s relate even when they're so doms. At least I think
But I can imagine sx/sp or sp/sx would make it even bigger.

Also I think that in case of 4 it's more emotional reaction, in case of sx/sp it's more related to space and energy. Meaning, 4 will stop liking you, sx/sp non-4 will more just need space.


and no, I dont relate AT ALL. I am not at all push, I am only pull part. hah.
and I am 3, probably sx/sp.

 

[the state i am in]

the push pull to me is a process of taming. a kind of attempt at tyranny, a struggle for freedom (a clear self w its own will) vs a desire for merging.

i only recognize the specific type of push/pull relevant for those types with e5 and fe related boundary issues. related to a fear of one's desires being consumed by the other.

i think more generally all types with inferior so instinct oscillate between intense focus on merging and desire for solitude and more specifically dissolution. a way of resetting the internal clock.

 

[KiwiBurst]

I'm ENFP 6w7 and I feel a very strong "push energy". Never felt any pull. I become more and more obsessed with a person to the point where I sometimes make them crazy and they leave. Or we continually bond and I feel like that person is a part of me. Lots of time and distance breaks the bond.

 

[sleuthiness]

I wonder how type-related this strand is, because my 5w6 sp/sx infj friend seems to have the same issues others have described + more.

This week I brought up the potential of the meetup.com website, and how despite the fact that it hasn't amounted to much, it's all about playing the percentage game; you eliminate nearly all odds of finding new friends by staying home. But yet, when we get together, she goes on about this guy and that, old, new, all shades of gray, etc.

Strange though (slightly unsettling, to boot) how easily such an apparently restrained nf is able to express sexual urges.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Yeah, I definitely feel the push pull thing. I tend to push more than pull, but occasionally I meet someone where I get excited & pull, and then when I see them responding, I freak out and run like mad.

I'm frightened of being smothered and losing my independence & individuality. At the same time, the fantasy - this romantic paragon I'll create - is very alluring. I like the idea of connecting deeply and intensely with someone, and I fall prey to the idea just enough to pull someone in (because they seem to fit the picture in my head), and then once it begins to become a reality & the fantasy dissolves, I push them away.

Sometimes I think it's a test I am giving - will they allow themselves to be pushed off? Can they give me the space I sometimes need? Few past this test...

Anyway, I thought this was a 4 & 5 thing also....in the Everything Enneagram book, 4s are said to latch onto fantasy relationships to avoid the potential hurt and shame of the real thing (and the fact that it will never be "ideal"). I believe 5s are said to desire some intimacy, but their need for solitude and independence is easily threatened - or something like that. My memory fails me at this moment....

 

[HighwayChild]

My "fear" stops before I feel the need to run, in fact what I feel is just a warning that gives insight of possibilities. The only thing I'm afraid of is acting too obsessed, which makes me hold back my overwhelming what-ever-it-is. But the bolded part is about right.

as 4w5 sp/sx, I think I can relate to this the most. It's a fear of vulnerability that kind of washes over me and wants to make me run, but I usually do a good job fighting off that wave after I spend some time to myself for a bit. Not too much time alone though or else I grow too numb and cut ties completely.

I've always noticed this push-pull energy in myself. Sometimes there are those few people I would like to connect deeply with and I crave being with them. It's strong, intense, and 'devouring'. I find myself bordering on obsession and I actively seek all sorts of contact with them. However, once I make progress -- once a new level of intimacy has been reached, I get scared. I pull myself back, I try to run, usually without the person knowing. But after I do that, the cycle starts again and I long for that deep connection once more.

I find this extremely frustrating and I really hate myself for it. It's like I can't decide what I want. At first I thought it was a 4w5 thing -- longing for emotion intensity but afraid of being overwhelmed, but then I was thinking that this might be an sp/sx characteristic.

So, sp/sx's, can you relate at all? Most of the time I keep people at a distance, but when I start letting someone in, I go through endless loops of pull and push. At least I feel closer to them after each loop, though -- I just hope it won't be like this forever

Of course, opinions from other types will be greatly appreciated too!

I could relate to this when I was younger and I completely understand the feelings of push and pull. It's kind of like a wall was around my heart with a welcome mat in front of it, but as soon as someone would start to chip away at the wall and invite themselves in, I would just leave the fort and run. I suppose what helped me get over that is just realizing that what you actually want isn't anything to be afraid of, and that projecting what might happen is usually not realistic. Lower your ideals as well. There may or may not be some pain at some point but it's not anything that you can't handle in time. Be strong. I wish I wasn't at work, I would go into it further, but I hope you know what I mean.

Okay, it's been a week and I have to say that the push and pull thing is a harsh reality that I just didn't want to face. I can't deny it when it happens though. Like you said, I hate myself for it. I don't understand the root of it and wonder if there is even a root. There has to be right? The time between the opposing emotions have been few and far in between lately, that it's easy to suggest to myself that it's no longer a problem. Like taking depression medication that works so well you feel you no longer will become depressed again, only to run dry for three weeks and be back to your state of self hatred and irreplaceable unhappiness. I'm not unhappy now, still on the meds, but that tug of war certainly pops it's ugly head back from time to time. I thought that I would be over it, but, as made apparent by this edit, it's baa-aaack. I still hold true to what angel m said, it won't scare me away completely anymore, but damn it, it's hard. I would very much like to try to do what most 7s do, just ignore the negativety and overwhelm it with cheeryness. Are 4s capable of even doing that, deep down? I don't want to go into my detailed situation about it publicly. Maybe I should just sleep.
Like you said though, after each loop, I feel closer. But I worry if it actually pushes away the other person involved, creating more push and pulls until there is nothing left to push or pull. How do you and whoever you are with handle it? I know this thread isn't the newest but I hope you'll still come back to this.