Peter as NTP. Fite me.

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

To second Julius, I find that it isn't enough for me to know how to do something, or knowing that a particular method is better than another method. My mind can't help analyzing, dissecting, and wondering WHY certain ways are better or more efficient ways. Everything, every action, is a puzzle that must be figured out. This is superfluous information to a lot of people, and I'm not bashing them for not necessarily caring to know why, but I can't help it, it excites me to break things down like that, and if I'm stumped, I might obsess over it until I can figure out why.

I enjoy history and alternate history; if I'm reading about some major event, I have to speculate on various possible causes leading up to an event; while I'm usually good at memorizing historical events and facts, that isn't what excites me, and I find it somewhat tedious and boring versus the process of seeing the patterns in history and trying to piece together or speculate the whys and processes.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I don't think it's an uncommon mistyping for a lot of people, especially males, probably because of cultural ideas and biases of how male feelers should act, thus causing a lot of male INFJs to rely heavily on Ti.

I was fairly convinced I was INFJ for quite some time, which was kind of stupid on my part.

I always thought he was an obvious Ne-Si user because of his amazing Ne humor and random things he comes up with on the spot, and his scarily impressive memory, but Ni could be the memory bit with a strong secondary Ne used mostly creatively. Sometimes I feel like the internet has given all of us some Ne because of the meme and joke exposure.

I'm not certain yet, but he seems to use Fe far too naturally for an INTP, and he doesn't ever do that intellectual verbose thing that you guys do. I've never seen him get a nerd boner over anything other than music/movies/TV or other creative productions. He's also pretty political and diplomatic, and mostly concerned with ethics in others (basic human respect stuff).

 

[Peter Deadpan]

To second Julius, I find that it isn't enough for me to know how to do something, or knowing that a particular method is better than another method. My mind can't help analyzing, dissecting, and wondering WHY certain ways are better or more efficient ways. Everything, every action, is a puzzle that must be figured out. This is superfluous information to a lot of people, and I'm not bashing them for not necessarily caring to know why, but I can't help it, it excites me to break things down like that, and if I'm stumped, I might obsess over it until I can figure out why.

I enjoy history and alternate history; if I'm reading about some major event, I have to speculate on various possible causes leading up to an event; while I'm usually good at memorizing historical events and facts, that isn't what excites me, and I find it somewhat tedious and boring versus the process of seeing the patterns in history and trying to piece together or speculate the whys and processes.

I've always sucked at history because I have zero ability to remember names, dates, events, and how they all link together over time. My eyes just glaze over and I go all "SQUIRREL!" with something else.

The rest... I do relate to. I'm a very curious individual and sometimes I get excited about something and if I'm talking about it with someone, I might go "but WHY?!"

Ahhhhhh my mind is spinning trying to sort this out.

I still cannot see an ENTP 4. BUUUT... maybe an ENFP with a 5-fix would still be a curious nerd???

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I always thought he was an obvious Ne-Si user because of his amazing Ne humor and random things he comes up with on the spot, and his scarily impressive memory, but Ni could be the memory bit with a strong secondary Ne used mostly creatively. Sometimes I feel like the internet has given all of us some Ne because of the meme and joke exposure.

I think our culture has become very Ne-oriented. We're also a very reference-oriented culture now, probably due to the advent of the internet allowing just about every part of past popular culture to be easily documented and referenced at ease.

I'm not certain yet, but he seems to use Fe far too naturally for an INTP, and he doesn't ever do that intellectual verbose thing that you guys do. I've never seen him get a nerd boner over anything other than music/movies/TV or other creative productions. He's also pretty political and diplomatic, and mostly concerned with ethics in others (basic human respect stuff).

Hard to say without knowing more about him. Enneagram type might also explain the confusion. For instance, I think INTP 9s might look more like IxFJs at times.

In my experience, I was raised by parents who constantly drilled me from an early age to use manners, and would scold me if I didn't use basic manners like "yes please", "no, sir/ma'am", etc, and they are both Fe dominant or auxiliary types, so it played some influence. However, I didn't have the natural empathy that a lot of IxFJs seem to talk about having even as children. I wasn't always great at reading people, and adults were amused by me because I spoke like a pedantic little professor. However, my mother told me she thought I was really diplomatic, but I think this is a 9 thing.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I've always sucked at history because I have zero ability to remember names, dates, events, and how they all link together over time. My eyes just glaze over and I go all "SQUIRREL!" with something else.

The rest... I do relate to. I'm a very curious individual and sometimes I get excited about something and if I'm talking about it with someone, I might go "but WHY?!"

Ahhhhhh my mind is spinning trying to sort this out.

I still cannot see an ENTP 4. BUUUT... maybe an ENFP with a 5-fix would still be a curious nerd???

It would certainly be one of the more introverted ENFP variants.

I think auxiliary/tertiary functions are often a lot harder to discern than dominant/inferior, especially when they're F/T functions, because it's hard to determine where social/cultural influence begins and ends in our personalities.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

It would certainly be one of the more introverted ENFP variants.

I think auxiliary/tertiary functions are often a lot harder to discern than dominant/inferior, especially when they're F/T functions, because it's hard to determine where social/cultural influence begins and ends in our personalities.

I think the fact that I continue to look outside of myself in an attempt to understand the functions is by and large not very Ti of me. I occasionally get frustrated that the pieces don't fit together more easily, yet the search still never loses its appeal for me.

 

[Hermit of the Forest]

Trial and error, trusting past experience when in doubt (Si?), but trying to keep an open mind and realizing everyone is different, yet people are also very similar in ways that transcend differences like race, economic background and gender. People are sort of like test subjects to me. I observe and make notes in my head of how they act and react. That helps me determine how I can act to avoid making social faux pas. I suppose I've always had a tendency to put people in boxes to more easily understand them; this is probably why personality theory has interested me for so long. So I try to strike a balance between putting people in boxes based on shared personality traits and viewing them as unique individuals. There is a lot of pattern recognition involved in the way I learn about people. They seem alien to me but I like them, especially interesting ones who don't as easily fit into boxes.

Yes! Every. Word. Truth.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

That said, If we're going to entertain a potential XNTP typing for you, I would definitely say ENTP over INTP (definitely would see you as Ne dom, and you exhibit more the more tert Fe "I know this is probably an offensive thing to say but I'm going to do it anyway because lol" versus being completely oblivious to why someone would be offended inferior Fe traits. I think you're aware of how to be likable.)

I'll second this. You remind me of quite a few NTP women that used to frequent the forum - ENTP slightly moreso. (If you want to check out some of their posts for the shittles, I'll link some when I'm at my actual computer).

I could see how an ENTP might mistype as INFJ. Similar function stack.

I have noticed there can be an uncanny similarity in conclusions (sensibilities jive), but there are opposite-ish other stuffs.

Peter: what made/makes you think you might be Fi? [To be honest, inasmuch as a person can 'see' this stuff in others, I'm not seeing it - just my potentially wrong opinion. You don't get prickly in the way that Fi types consistently seem (to me) to get prickly.]

 

[Snow as White]

Just to toss out there an idea I have looking st this thread. Would sp Dom affect an enfp to looking more T-ish than F-ish?

I guess you’ve always vibes as ENFP to me since I can relate to a lot of what you post. (Now I’m questioning my entire life... everything is down not up! Purple not green!)

I’ve seen you be prickly in threads and you’re honest about it and never come off as excessive to me. Those moments felt like tert-te to me being used well for Fi’s [insert more accurate word here] agenda?

 

[Snow as White]

It would certainly be one of the more introverted ENFP variants.

I think auxiliary/tertiary functions are often a lot harder to discern than dominant/inferior, especially when they're F/T functions, because it's hard to determine where social/cultural influence begins and ends in our personalities.

You said this better than I was able to conjure from my mind.

I often wonder the influence of T/F on people when there are social encouragement towards the genders.

I will relate my bf. I thought he was intp at first because he’s very Ti and logical and when asked always points to valuing his logic and intellect as his key self points.

Then I realized he’s also very warm and polite and everyone who meets him loves him. (And not that intps aren’t lovable he just has way more fe than an intp less than 50 should have)

So I thought oh. Infj 5. Has him take test and he got intj 5. I pointed out the Infj description and he likes that more realizing that it isn’t some gushy type. His dad is an ENTJ 8 and so I can see in their interactions that... his dad is a huge champion for people being themselves but there is an unconscious bent towards his version of interpersonal interactions. It’s really fascinating to watch. To where my bf took a page from his dad and if he has to confront someone he does it super calm but in command in way I don’t normally see fe types doing it.

So I guess I ramble all of that to really plop down the thought of how environmental cues shape us in th form of family. So perhaps Peter, could there be an argument made for family influence making you think you’re more F or for encouraging you to exhibit more T?

 

[Virtual ghost]

This is a common result for me and I want to ruffle a few feathers cuz I'm bored. Extra points to whomever can actually get me to understand how a dominant Ti user processes the world, particularly people.

Let the games begin, but no hitting below the belt. And lookout for my killer right hook.

You have Fi feeling all over you in my book. Plus if you are really Ti user you would know better how the thing works, either by knowing yourself or simply due to information gathering and in all this time being here you would look it up.


Also if you are Ti user you also need to change your enneagram, since NTP 4 isn't really too realistic combo. Not to mention that those test results that are posted here are so borderline on a few letters that they don't really represent a concrete fact/argument. Even if presueme that testing should be done thought tests.


So no, you are unlikely to be NTP.

 

[Snow as White]

Plus if you are really Ti user you would know better how the thing works, either by knowing yourself or simply due to information gathering and in all this time being here you would look it up.

My wishlist for Ti looks like this:

• For the love of God learn bullet points
• and graphs instead of paragraphs (see, even the word is shorter)
• and charts instead of words
• and TL;DR summations at the end

 

[Peter Deadpan]

You have Fi feeling all over you in my book. Plus if you are really Ti user you would know better how the thing works, either by knowing yourself or simply due to information gathering and in all this time being here you would look it up.


Also if you are Ti user you also need to change your enneagram, since NTP 4 isn't really too realistic combo. Not to mention that those test results that are posted here are so borderline on a few letters that they don't really represent a concrete fact/argument. Even if presueme that testing should be done thought tests.


So no, you are unlikely to be NTP.

I don't actually think I'm an NTP. I thought that was a little more clear than it is. I do think I'm a rather "think-y" feeler though, but it likely shows in person better.

I have done extensive research on functions and other typology related stuff. I merely thought starting an "argumentative" thread aimed at NTPs would be an interesting way to pick the brains of Ti users and solidify/evolve my current understanding of the thinking functions. Actually, that's sort of a Te approach in itself.

I've also never doubted being a core 4 (not since the very beginning, at least). With that said, it is rather foolish to presume that any particular type combination is impossible, seeing as how there are 8 billion people in the world. Unlikely? Yes. Impossible? Absolutely not.

Frankly, I only grow more confident in my type the more I learn. Any knowledge obtained now is for practical/entertainment purposes (I'm never satisfied with information and always want either more or new perspectives).

 

[SigmaEnigma]

ENTP here, so keep in mind that this explaination likely has Ne bias mixed into it rendering it more of an explaination of the NTP thought process at certain places than TP in general.
Ti needs everything to make complete logical sense within a framework, and within their understanding of the world (which may sound intimidating written out, but to most TPs it comes so naturally they dont even realize they're (insanely good at) doing it). Ti users both conciously and unconciously follow a "there must be a reason for everything" mindset. If something isnt given an explaination or isnt making sense, Ti will compulsively try to figure out a reason or cause, sometimes obsessively (once more sometimes not even realizing theyre doing it).
Ti uses its own understanding of the world primarily, although it can and does very often view other frameworks to look for inconsistencies aswell, including contradictions between 2 frameworks, since another framework making no sense is still an entity that is making no sense to the Ti. Ti will then wonder why the framework came to be that way, and make conceptual comparisons to definitions and between seperate given or personal reasoning, and form theories, however if the other framework is indeed making a logical error within itself, the Ti user will try to correct the framework, and attempt to figure out what reasoning caused this error. (New information/opinions are always a possibility until entirely proven wrong by technicality (which dont get me wrong, can happen within seconds)).
I wouldnt know for sure as I don't have much personal experience with Fi, but under my understanding based on definitions of what Fi is and symmetry, i'd imagine Ti is akin to Fi if you are to replace morals/emotions with logic/reasoning.
tl;dr Ti has a complusion to have everything make perfect technical sense in accordance with everything else in a given system, and have no contradictions. NeTi/TiNe in particular also has a difficult time writing a tl;dr, as it wants to clear up 97348844 possible concieved loose ends or forseen misconceptions, so that their reasoning runs as smoothly as possible.

 

[SigmaEnigma]

I merely thought starting an "argumentative" thread aimed at NTPs would be an interesting way to pick the brains of Ti users and solidify/evolve my current understanding of the thinking functions. Actually, that's sort of a Te approach in itself.

How so?

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Hey [MENTION=31348]Peter Deadpan[/MENTION], if you're okay with answering this - what makes you identify as Fi?

 

[1487610420]

na fam

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Hey [MENTION=31348]Peter Deadpan[/MENTION], if you're okay with answering this - what makes you identify as Fi?

I'd have to think for awhile on that to give you a decent response, but to quickly answer, I guess things like this:

- I am drawn to the internal turmoil of individual's and not so much to the injustices of groups, unless the group represents a subgroup of people whom I personally relate to or empathize with. It's not that I don't care about national or global issues, it's just that it isn't where my heart goes. If it's a group I do not identify with, I empathize because I can put myself in their shoes. Ex: Even though I am not transgender, I can imagine what it might feel like to be a teenage struggling in a body that doesn't feel like it's mine, and I am VERY passionate about mental health awareness and talking about things like suicide prevention, so tying everything together makes it more meaningful for me. Generally speaking though, I am drawn to empathize with more personal groups, like the poor (especially children fighting to fit in so as not to be looked down upon), alcoholics or people who live with or love an alcoholic, survivors of abuse, and oddballs. That's because I relate to all of these categories from personal experience. I am much less likely to go on a long speech about anything political or socially trendy. The more I hear about it, the less I want to participate.

- I hold things in for far too long generally. I am not actually very emotionally expressive, not in a healthy/open manner at least. It can take some work for people to get me to open up about deep feelings that actually bother me. I do try to discuss relationship issues, but usually only after things erupt a bit, and at that point I think it's more about getting each other to recognize the other's feelings and coming up with a pragmatic solution to avoid further misunderstandings.

- I'm fairly passive-aggressive. I'd be the type of person that goes "ugh, I don't wanna cook tonight," and then silently pout internally when I end up having to cook dinner anyway 20 minutes later because my partner didn't catch my hint. Most Fe-fluent folks I know are pretty good at being all "hey honey, can I have a hand in here for 5 minutes?" Apparently I'm still 12 years old.

- I frequently go against the wishes of those in my general vicinity, including family and coworkers/bosses despite possible consequence, because I cannot stand to bend to the ethics of others if not in line with my own. I don't generally try to do this in a direct, confrontational way. The only time I get like that is if there is a long-standing pattern of ignoring my personal boundaries/values or if there is a major injustice or non-negotiable boundary. In the case of the latter, I can become a force to be reckoned with.

- Probably other things too but I am tired and have to go to bed now because it's 11 and work things have to be in the morn.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

ENTP here, so keep in mind that this explaination likely has Ne bias mixed into it rendering it more of an explaination of the NTP thought process at certain places than TP in general.
Ti needs everything to make complete logical sense within a framework, and within their understanding of the world (which may sound intimidating written out, but to most TPs it comes so naturally they dont even realize they're (insanely good at) doing it). Ti users both conciously and unconciously follow a "there must be a reason for everything" mindset. If something isnt given an explaination or isnt making sense, Ti will compulsively try to figure out a reason or cause, sometimes obsessively (once more sometimes not even realizing theyre doing it).
Ti uses its own understanding of the world primarily, although it can and does very often view other frameworks to look for inconsistencies aswell, including contradictions between 2 frameworks, since another framework making no sense is still an entity that is making no sense to the Ti. Ti will then wonder why the framework came to be that way, and make conceptual comparisons to definitions and between seperate given or personal reasoning, and form theories, however if the other framework is indeed making a logical error within itself, the Ti user will try to correct the framework, and attempt to figure out what reasoning caused this error. (New information/opinions are always a possibility until entirely proven wrong by technicality (which dont get me wrong, can happen within seconds)).
I wouldnt know for sure as I don't have much personal experience with Fi, but under my understanding based on definitions of what Fi is and symmetry, i'd imagine Ti is akin to Fi if you are to replace morals/emotions with logic/reasoning.
tl;dr Ti has a complusion to have everything make perfect technical sense in accordance with everything else in a given system, and have no contradictions. NeTi/TiNe in particular also has a difficult time writing a tl;dr, as it wants to clear up 97348844 possible concieved loose ends or forseen misconceptions, so that their reasoning runs as smoothly as possible.

This is actually really good and explains why I almost look for inconsistencies in other's ethical perspectives. I notice when someone posts something that is in contrast with something else they once posted regarding ethics (I'm thinking of a particular INTP I know elsewhere online). I don't generally call it out though because it's usually a group discussion with heavy Fe consensus and more background knowledge than I have, so unless I feel confident that I know what I'm talking about (when referencing to back up my point), I'll watch silently.

This kinda sounds like insufficient Ti/Fe to me, but if I know what I'm talking about, I can be pretty straightforward (Fi-Te). Having a strong view in the realm of humanity is one thing, but having the facts to back up your point to others who don't agree/understand is another.

 

[SigmaEnigma]

I don't generally call it out though because it's usually a group discussion with heavy Fe consensus and more background knowledge than I have, so unless I feel confident that I know what I'm talking about (when referencing to back up my point), I'll watch silently.

- Poor Ji (Ti wouldn't care about objectively referencing its points with external facts since it follows its own worldview, it would back up using its own understanding which is where the argument begins in the first place, and Fi would more often than not call out something immoral regardless of whether or not it fit the Fe atmosphere).

[Having a strong view in the realm of humanity is one thing, but having the facts to back up your point to others who don't agree/understand is another.

- Very FiTe/TeFi approach, relying on objective facts rather than your own understanding