Peter as NTP. Fite me.

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

So, how do you approach understanding people individually? Is that hard for you? Is it easier for you to analyze people collectively? If you are learning the nuances of a person's personality, how do you incorporate the more human characteristics (could include things like fears, weaknesses, strengths, emotions, past trauma, cause and effect type stuff)?

Trial and error, trusting past experience when in doubt (Si?), but trying to keep an open mind and realizing everyone is different, yet people are also very similar in ways that transcend differences like race, economic background and gender. People are sort of like test subjects to me. I observe and make notes in my head of how they act and react. That helps me determine how I can act to avoid making social faux pas. I suppose I've always had a tendency to put people in boxes to more easily understand them; this is probably why personality theory has interested me for so long. So I try to strike a balance between putting people in boxes based on shared personality traits and viewing them as unique individuals. There is a lot of pattern recognition involved in the way I learn about people. They seem alien to me but I like them, especially interesting ones who don't as easily fit into boxes.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Trial and error, trusting past experience when in doubt (Si?), but trying to keep an open mind and realizing everyone is different, yet people are also very similar in ways that transcend differences like race, economic background and gender. People are sort of like test subjects to me. I observe and make notes in my head of how they act and react. That helps me determine how I can act to avoid making social faux pas. I suppose I've always had a tendency to put people in boxes to more easily understand them; this is probably why personality theory has interested me for so long. So I try to strike a balance between putting people in boxes based on shared personality traits and viewing them as unique individuals. There is a lot of pattern recognition involved in the way I learn about people. They seem alien to me but I like them, especially interesting ones who don't as easily fit into boxes.

Also not unlike me, except I don't worry about social faux pas. A lot of times though what I recognize in others may be something I see/saw in myself or someone I once knew. All I know is I'm pretty good at seeing behind the curtains and often recognize when they are playing an act, even if they don't realize it, and why they are doing so.

 

[Stigmata]

Funny you made this thread because just the other day I read one of your posts and thought to myself "Yeah, I could totally see PDP as some kind of NT type."

That said, If we're going to entertain a potential XNTP typing for you, I would definitely say ENTP over INTP (definitely would see you as Ne dom, and you exhibit more the more tert Fe "I know this is probably an offensive thing to say but I'm going to do it anyway because lol" versus being completely oblivious to why someone would be offended inferior Fe traits. I think you're aware of how to be likable.)

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Funny you made this thread because just the other day I read one of your posts and thought to myself "Yeah, I could totally see PDP as some kind of NT type."

That said, If we're going to entertain a potential XNTP typing for you, I would definitely say ENTP over INTP (definitely would see you as Ne dom, and you exhibit more the more tert Fe "I know this is probably an offensive thing to say but I'm going to do it anyway because lol" versus being completely oblivious to why someone would be offended inferior Fe traits. I think you're aware of how to be likable.)

I agree with all of this, but the thing that throws me off when entertaining this is..... enneagram 4.

 

[Forever]

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Full disclosure: I actually do test as SLUEI on The Big Five, but I bet I was more accommodating in my younger years. Now I'm just jaded and mean.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I could see how an ENTP might mistype as INFJ. Similar function stack.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I could see how an ENTP might mistype as INFJ. Similar function stack.

The real question would be: Do I use Fi or Ti more?
I can barely identify Ti, sooooo idk.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Yes please!

Ok, so a framework is a way of understanding something that allows you to predict what will happen, or change the outcome (sometimes in the typology literature, this is called "leverage").

Here are some examples:

1. I was trying to make some Cheddar Bay Biscuits, and there's a buttery topping that is supposed to be homongenously mixed. Only, my attempts at whisking were unsuccessful. I found a video on Youtube that compared different forms of whisking, and the video came to the conclusion that side to side was superior to the circular whisking they'd be using. The framework comes into play here:
   
   The reason is that because, instead of everything moving in the direction it's inclined to thanks to inertia, the different kinds of molecules change direction constantly. Because they do that, they sort of bump against each other, and because they do that, they mix better. I guess a good analogy would be a crowd of people all moving in one direction versus a crowd of people where everyone moves in different directions. In the first instance, your "neighbors" in the crowd will stay largely the same. In the second instance, your "neighbors" will change.
   
   I think for a lot of people, the last part would not be necessary. It would be enough to know that this method was found to work better. But as for me, I like having that extra bit of explanation, and if one isn't given to me, I'll often create one. If the framework is good, this actually has advantages, because it means that I can apply it to things other than just that recipe. I can use that in any situation where I need to mix something homogenously, like Italian dressing or paprikash sauce. Because I understand why it works, I can feel confident that I can have consistent results.
   
   
2. Another framework involves narratives. Chekov's Gun is the idea that if you introduce something in the beginning, it will become important later. Within the past year, I've been really good at spotting this, and I've been intrigued to know how the thing introduced at the beginning is going to come into play at the end. I've noticed that many stories have cool details that are actually important to the plot. Discussing examples tends to deal with spoiler material, but I've noticed this in things like Westworld (on a season basis) and Ready Player One. It's almost like a "law" of storytelling: Details that are focused on in the beginning (and often seemingly forgotten about) are not just details. I think this device is useful for storytellers because it allows for a resolution to occur without feeling like a cheat. If you don't show your Chekov's gun in the beginning, it becomes a Deus Ex Machina, which feels cheap to many people.
   
   
3. You probably want an example of a framework regarding people. I think there are probably general frameworks for people, and things that are specific to groups or individuals. A good general framework is that people like to be acknowledged. (Actually, you could say the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a list of frameworks for people [It's not nearly as cynical as you might think, either.. a lot of it amounts to treating people with respect and not doing things that make them feel bad. ]). For instance, if someone new is entering a conversation, they often seem to appreciate if you respond to them. I'll sometimes do it for it's own sake, I suppose out of a sense of empathy. And yes, I sometimes do it on TypoC. I'm not entirely sure where Fe and Ti begins and ends in this instance, to be honest.

I hope that helps.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Ohhhhhhh my gawd.
I think my boyfriend might be an INFJ.
I'm really bad at this whole typing thing sometimes...

(I did always find it weird that the most grating thing about him was his Fe)

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[highlander]

For the record, I did start this thread just for funsies. I would like to pick the brains of actual confirmed NTPs, mainly to solidify my understanding of Ti, and also to help me with my relationship with an INTP.

But in all seriousness, I do receive this result often. I like to take tests periodically to see how I morph or stay consistent, it's just fun to me (pushes up taped spectacles and snorts).

Here are two recent results:

I am not sure if these are more dichotemy based, but if they are, that could definitely explain any skewing. I seem to have the hardest time answering I vs E and T vs F questions comparatively. With that said, I think it's clear I am capable of being extremely emotional but also relatively insensitive at times.

I guess I just continue to make little sense.

What did you come out as in the forum test? I definitely see the Ne. You have that funny Ne humor thing always going on.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

What did you come out as in the forum test?

ENFP.

 

[highlander]

ENFP.

Yes, I could go with that. It seems right. That's what I vote for.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Yes, I could go with that. It seems right. That's what I vote for.

Why am I so mean and trolly and obsessed with wordplay? HUH, HIGHLANDER??!!!

 

[Tilt]

[*]You probably want an example of a framework regarding people. I think there are probably general frameworks for people, and things that are specific to groups or individuals. A good general framework is that people like to be acknowledged. (Actually, you could say the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a list of frameworks for people [It's not nearly as cynical as you might think, either.. a lot of it amounts to treating people with respect and not doing things that make them feel bad. ]). For instance, if someone new is entering a conversation, they often seem to appreciate if you respond to them. I'll sometimes do it for it's own sake, I suppose out of a sense of empathy. And yes, I sometimes do it on TypoC. I'm not entirely sure where Fe and Ti begins and ends in this instance, to be honest.

I hope that helps.

Ahhh yes, that makes a lot of sense to me. I often categorize people into archetypes as a starting point and then apply my repertoire of previously made frameworks. If it doesn't seem to fit, I rework it and create additional frameworks. Fe to me is context-based social logic. Ti aids in checking the foundation/soundness/relevance of the social logic in a specific context (from a dom Fe perspective).

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Why am I so mean and trolly and obsessed with wordplay? HUH, HIGHLANDER??!!!

Ne is the “wordplay” function, right?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Introverted Feeling (Fi) vs Introverted Thinking (Ti)

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Ne is the “wordplay” function, right?

Yes, it's just traditionally attributed to NTPs as a beloved hobby. I don't often see it with NFPs to the extent that I enjoy and actively seek out.

I think I also enjoy coming up with new and more efficient ways of doing things, which I attributed to Te (I'll be back later with examples).

 

[Agent Washington]

part of why i dont think i'm ne secondary (?) lack of pun prowess

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Another framework involves narratives. Chekov's Gun is the idea that if you introduce something in the beginning, it will become important later. Within the past year, I've been really good at spotting this, and I've been intrigued to know how the thing introduced at the beginning is going to come into play at the end. I've noticed that many stories have cool details that are actually important to the plot. Discussing examples tends to deal with spoiler material, but I've noticed this in things like Westworld (on a season basis) and Ready Player One. It's almost like a "law" of storytelling: Details that are focused on in the beginning (and often seemingly forgotten about) are not just details. I think this device is useful for storytellers because it allows for a resolution to occur without feeling like a cheat. If you don't show your Chekov's gun in the beginning, it becomes a Deus Ex Machina, which feels cheap to many people.

This is a good example. I find myself wondering this a lot, if something in the beginning of a film seems to be emphasized. I'm good at noticing foreshadowing. It bothers me to no end when something (whether an object or theme) seems to be emphasized, only to never come up later in a story. On the flip, deus ex machina bothers the hell out of me. Semi-related, maguffins in stories can be annoying, when lazily used. Several James Bond films are notorious for using maguffins to drive the story.

Ohhhhhhh my gawd.
I think my boyfriend might be an INFJ.
I'm really bad at this whole typing thing sometimes...

(I did always find it weird that the most grating thing about him was his Fe)

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

I don't think it's an uncommon mistyping for a lot of people, especially males, probably because of cultural ideas and biases of how male feelers should act, thus causing a lot of male INFJs to rely heavily on Ti.

I was fairly convinced I was INFJ for quite some time, which was kind of stupid on my part.