Personal Testimony

[Mole]

Personal testimony is the hallmark of Protestantism.

And it is the hallmark of Protestantism because Protestants believe in the personal interpretation of the Bible.

And this site is full to overflowing with personal testimony. Personal testimony is the lingua franca of this site.

Unfortunately personal testimony is at best anecdotal and at worst delusional.

But this is what they have learnt in the USA and what they foist on us as though it were the most natural thing in the world.

And it is the most natural thing in the world for them, for they breathe it day in and day out, until it seems to be the natural order of things - and even part of the moral order.

But I'm strangling, I am choking on personal testimony.

 

[KDude]

Heh yeah people are talking about themselves because of "Protestantism".

Anyways, if you're "choking", how about just "leaving" like some have suggested before?

 

[Mole]

Heh yeah people are talking about themselves because of "Protestantism".

Anyways, if you're "choking", how about just "leaving" like some have suggested before.

How about banning those, like yourself, who make continual ad hominem attacks on me?

 

[KDude]

Stop playing the victim.

I'm taking your own words - you said you're "choking". If that's the case, look after your health.

 

[Mole]

There is a place for personal testimony but only to illustrate a general point.

If we try to put all the weight on personal testimony, it collapses, it loses its force and becomes mere narcissism.

A whole person is interested in more than just their own experience. While a narcissist is only interested in their own experience.

But if you live in a society based on Protestantism, narcissism, individual rather than collective action, then personal testimony is the natural way to go.

But after a while it seems like special pleading.

 

[Beorn]

But if you live in a society based on Protestantism, narcissism, individual rather than collective action, then personal testimony is the natural way to go.

Really, this whole emphasis on personal testimony is a relatively new concept within the history of protestantism. It likely grew out of the second and third great awakening that occurred in america in the 19th century and became popular in Pentecostal and Baptist circles.

Personal testimony was not a huge characteristic of the presbyterian tradition and other reformed traditions. The reformed faith places less emphasis on individualism and more emphasis on covenantal community. One mark of this fact is that all babies enter into the covenant community through baptism shortly after birth.

Also there just isn't the same pressure on children in the reformed faith to "make a decision for Christ." It's just presumed that in God's time the children of believers will confirm their faith in Christ (although I think lutherans like RCs set a specific age of confirmation). At that point they become full communing members.

So if you ask a presbyterian to give their testimony of when they were saved you'll likely get one of two responses: either "I don't know" or "When Christ died."

 

[Mole]

Really, this whole emphasis on personal testimony is a relatively new concept within the history of protestantism. It likely grew out of the second and third great awakening that occurred in america in the 19th century and became popular in Pentecostal and Baptist circles.

Personal testimony was not a huge characteristic of the presbyterian tradition and other reformed traditions. The reformed faith places less emphasis on individualism and more emphasis on covenantal community. One mark of this fact is that all babies enter into the covenant community through baptism shortly after birth.

Also there just isn't the same pressure on children in the reformed faith to "make a decision for Christ." It's just presumed that in God's time the children of believers will confirm their faith in Christ (although I think lutherans like RCs set a specific age of confirmation). At that point they become full communing members.

So if you ask a presbyterian to give their testimony of when they were saved you'll likely get one of two responses: either "I don't know" or "When Christ died."

This is very interesting but leaves open the question of why most of the posts here are based on personal testimony.

It may be a fake personality test like MBTI must rely on personal testimony, because it gives no valid and reliable results.

But I can't help feeling that the addiction to personal testimony is cultural in nature.

MBTI was created in a country founded by Protestants, and written by Protestants, so I guess an interesting question would be, what kind of Protestants were Mrs Briggs and her daughter Mrs Myers?

But it seems to me that personal testimony has spread deeply into your culture from strands of Protestantism, so much so I understand Yankees will even tell you their life history as you are standing in the queue at the supermarket.

And personal testimony seems to be the default position here.

 

[natashasghost]

Is it time for ____ yet?

This is very interesting but leaves open the question of why most of the posts here are based on personal testimony.

It may be a fake personality test like MBTI must rely on personal testimony, because it gives no valid and reliable results.

But I can't help feeling that the addiction to personal testimony is cultural in nature.

MBTI was created in a country founded by Protestants, and written by Protestants, so I guess an interesting question would be, what kind of Protestants were Mrs Briggs and her daughter Mrs Myers?

But it seems to me that personal testimony has spread deeply into your culture from strands of Protestantism, so much so I understand Yankees will even tell you their life history as you are standing in the queue at the supermarket.

And personal testimony seems to be the default position here.

You seem to have a bias against personal testimony and Protestantism. Yes, I know, I'm so intuitive! I'm new here but most posts I've read don't seem to be trying to directly support the validity or reliability of the MBTI test as much as those individuals want to learn about themselves using a simple, basic structure via discourse. Do you know why you might have a deep, driving animosity to such discourse? Am I misinterpreting?

If people don't discuss themselves, openly and honestly; learn to compare and contrast to have a deeper understanding of those they interact and live with, as well as themselves, what should they be doing in this search for clarity? Were you not sharing personal testimony in the guise of a personal historical analysis of Protestantism and the way it causes all forms of thought in western society?

 

[Totenkindly]

This is an interesting thread.

 

[Salomé]

Test-iffy!

 

[gromit]

Victor, can you please describe a little more concretely what you mean by 'personal testimony' in a non-religious sense? What would be your alternative? What is your ideal world or your ideal forum?

It seems to me that we must encounter the world through our own experiences first and foremost. As we mature, we learn to take the experiences of others into account, but even that is indirect, filtered through our understanding of those people's experiences. There is no such thing as being purely objective, because we are always limited by what we have experienced, biased by what we can perceive. I remember the day I realized that other people had consciousness too, and it blew my mind... I wanted so badly to experience their consciousness, to see the world or a situation how they saw it, but eventually I realized that the best I could do was imagine it based on my own understanding of myself and of them as individuals.

Do you disagree that a person's experiences are vital in shaping how they have developed into the person which they are? How can we improve, how can we learn to see things from others' perspectives if we do not understand our own perspective?

I agree that too much self-inspection can actually be blinding though, both to insight into ourselves and to insight into other people.

 

[Beorn]

so much so I understand Yankees will even tell you their life history as you are standing in the queue at the supermarket.

This is annoying. More likely to happen in the south, but i suppose we're all yanks to you.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I thought that almost all of Victor's posts were a sort of personal testimony. Perhaps I've been reading them wrong.

 

[Laurie]

It's crazy that people join a forum and then talk about their personal experiences. That's just weird.

 

[KDude]

I thought that almost all of Victor's posts were a sort of personal testimony. Perhaps I've been reading them wrong.

He believes he speaks for all of us.

Notice the strong use of "we".

 

[Stanton Moore]

Sometimes personal testimony is cathartic and helps a person get over a trauma or other difficulties. This has nothing to do with protestantism or religion.

 

[foolish heart]

The true delusion is the belief that what we each experience is somehow impersonal (because we are self-righteous)

 

[miss fortune]

Dear Victor,

why don't you just be straightforward and start a thread titled "I hate America, Americans and everything associated with the USA"?

Too afraid of the consequences? It's safer to write thinly veiled attacks all over the place isn't it?

Sincerely,

whatever, who is generally a dreadful american, but is getting pretty irked nonetheless

 

[Laurie]

^So that's what all this stuff is about? I guess I don't read it enough to catch it.

Evil Americans!

 

[miss fortune]

says the chick from Cleveland!

read the OP, or the OP of his thread on guns are evil or a variety of other posts... they generally call Americans evil