Patrick Stewart will reprise his role as Jean-Luc Picard

[Totenkindly]

Okay, I took advantage of the free month of CBS Access to blow through the second half of the season this weekend.

My experience was mixed due to the hybrid nature of the show, but there were some powerful moments.

1. There are a number of cameos (well, LONG cameos -- some last across episodes), some of which work, some of which are more fan service. There were two sets of cameos that I enjoy(ed) and one of which looks likely to persist.

Episode 7, Picard hides out with Riker and Troi, and their daughter Kestra. What's good about it is that it makes sense in the plot, I can appreciate he'd go THERE because he had no options left -- and the other reason it works is that the writing and acting is spot on. This is just older Riker/Troi but it's still them, just a little more mature. It "felt" right. Looking at Deanna too, I could see her mom in her as she aged but she's still also very much Deanna... just better utilized and written than she ever was on the TV show. Riker is influential through the end of the season even when he's not on screen. Anyway, this is how to do a cameo.

Also, from Episode 5-10, Jeri Ryan as Seven of Nine. Since they are dealing with the "Borg Reclamation" effort with all the ex-Borg (or XB's), her appearance made sense and she is important to the plot -- plus she actually feels pretty real too, thanks to Jeri Ryan. She's bad-ass, and gritty, and real, and conflicted, and... well, just a good utilization of the character.

2. The series ties together front and back if you want the whole thing together. I didn't think I cared, I wasn't expecting to care, but the last ten minutes ripped out my heart, which is ironic considering I never had watched the last two TNG films. I remedied part of that last night by watching ST: Nemesis, which put a lot more in context as well. Anyway, i would consider those scenes to be one of the highlights of Season 1 and brings closure in a way that might not have been experience watching the films.

Here I am talking about Commander Data, who dies in Nemesis to save Picard's life. A lot of this season feels like a more formal ending to their relationship, bringing closure to Picard's feelings of loss and guilt -- he still dreams about Data regularly because he misses him so much and regrets that Data died to save him. While Nemesis did try to put a resolution on, it wasn't quite enough time despite the "wake" feeling pretty real. I hate to call all of Season 1 the "resolution of Nemesis" that we never got, but so MUCH of it -- even Picard's involvement with the android social issues movement -- comes from his relationship with Data, that ended so tragically, and the season basically explores this and wraps it all up, in effect with Picard providing his own response to Data's sacrifice to validate it.

The opening shot of Picard is Picard with Data in a dream, with "Blue Skies" faintly in in the background. Blue Skies is the song that Data sang at the Riker-Troi wedding at the beginning of Nemesis and is what B-4 is trying to hum at the movie's end (after Data copied his mental data images into B-4 to try to "improve" him earlier in the film -- i.e., a copy of Data existed in B4 so to speak).

At film's end, while Picard was dying, they copy his mental mind map into a server device that also happens to be housing the consciousness of Data as pulled from B-4. So Picard and Data get to have the conversation they never had before his actual physical death. When Picard prepares to leave (to awaken in his new host form), Data asks him to please allow his consciousness to terminate, to provide more value to his life -- he always wanted to be human, and humans are temporary, not permanent. "A butterfly that lives forever... is not really a butterfly," he tells Picard. So Picard agrees.

As they perform a ceremony in turning off the box in the outer world, Data inside prepares to dissipate to the tune of "Blue Sky", with an image of Picard holding his hand. Everything dissolves into a shot of space nebulas (reminds me of "Hey Capa, we're only stardust"), it's beautifully done, and was heart-wrenching for me to watch, I hadn't even seen Nemesis yet but ended up crying anyway. Well, it ties into some of Nemesis as well.

3. The series still was trying to be Trek while also trying to be edgier than Trek, so some of it still feels cobbled together at times, whether it's an impromptu beheading, or an occasional F-bomb, or a gruesome demise of some kind. It didn't really handle it as seamlessly as it should have if it wanted to go that way, the show was still in growing pains.

4. There's a bit of rehash in the character dev between episodes -- characters seeming to repeat the same mistakes / illogic. it's also not as clear sometimes why characters make certain decisions, after being against such decisions, aside from the need to move the plot along or have it go in a certain direction. That's something dragged in from TNG as well. They did assemble a cast that ranges from sufficient to really great, so that helps smooth over a lot of it. At times, it still drops back into "background viewing" rather than emotionally engaging me enough that I can't multitask and just want to sit and watch 100%. Like, a character likes another character an awful lot / approves of them until they don't, but then suddenly they approve of them again. Characters are villains until they are good guys until they're villains and/or back and forth. That kind of thing.

Like, Agnes is home free now, after murdering Maddox in cold blood? What happened to Narek, who was a bad guy until ... suddenly they were working with him? Who is now a good guy so to speak, despite doing terrible things to Soji? And so on. things did not really feel character driven at times, it was more about what the plot needed.

5. I don't know if some viewers were surprised, but Picard's personal arc in the final few episodes was something I felt like they telegraphed a mile away -- like as soon as I saw certain things happen on screen, I had a really good idea of how Picard's life would be impacted by season end and I was spot on. I don't want to rip on that too much, because it also is nice to feel like the season comes full circle and some of the subplot themes all feed into each other effectively

I'm talking mainly about Picard being (technically) now a synthetic, in a host body, since his bio body effectively dies at the end of Episode 10 and they place him in a host synthetic body. Of course, conveniently, it is not "super-human" (which is really more of a plot and "shooting" compensation, we won't have to expect them to show Patrick Stewart at 79 doing crazy Avenger-level stunts later on) and it is designed to break down / turn off at the end of his generally expected end-of-life, so it's purely a plotting point. However, what's beautiful is that Picard basically has spent a large portion of his end life supporting the android cause and eventually sacrifices his life to win their trust back -- he gives everything -- so what else is more perfect than him embodying that his physical form? He has literally become the perfect advocate in a sense or at least a bridge between both worlds -- a human spirit in an synthetic body, he embodies it all -- and a tribute to Data who was an android trying to be human.

In general, it won't affect the plot much in the future aside from maybe giving the writers a few tricks up their sleeve at crucial moments, i guess.

Note the show really doesn't address the realities of consciousness. Like, is that really the same Picard? (Of course, the ST universe never resolved the "teleporter" problem either. Like, aren't you just disintegrating people and recreating them somewhere else, versus actually sending their actual particles across space?) I mean, it is a copy of his mind at time of death, and so he LOOKS like the Picard we all know from the outside -- we can never tell the difference -- but is it the same consciousness that was Picard, or simply a duplicate of it? Humans will never get an answer to whether we have "souls" for our "awareness" -- something separate from our bodies. The show assumes we do have one, or a consciousness of some kind, that can relocate; but technically we could never recognize it from the outside.

6. Isa Briones is actually a stage actor/singer, who has toured in Hamilton (as Peggy Schuyler and Maria Reynolds -- same actress typically plays both), and ends up singing in the final episode. She's younger than my youngest kid. I think she's pretty good in Picard, honestly, considering the roles she is juggling and the talent she has to match.


7. Honestly, you could sum up the depictions of Romulans in this season as similar to the "high elves" -- the men we see tend to be pretty boys, and they're all kind of uptight / snotty like the Bright "high elf" depiction. I understand the Romulans from the Trek reboot (2009) were miners so they were more rugged, but this depiction seemed to shift a bit back to a prettier more arrogant race of sorts. Even the most prominent are the sibling twins Narissa and Narek, which veer into elvish name territory, lol.

 

[Totenkindly]

Long story short, Season 1 (while providing a resolution to some plot stuff from the films and being an encapsulated story in its own right) feels like a setup for Season 2 as well -- by the end, we have a cast assembled for later seasons without any commitment to a storyline.

 

[Riva]

The reviews from the core fan base isn't that good so far. Still going to watch it all as soon as I get the chance.

The nostalgia is too strong in me for Picard to boycott.

Star Trek Discovery I have given up on. The name should be changed to Star Trek Mary Sue.

Apparently the creators of the new Picard show is the same as Discovery which is terrible news.

 

[Population: 1]

Tripe. Utter unmitigated tripe. To think this is supposed to be somehow related to a masterpiece of a series like TNG. If TNG had had a bowel movement it would have produced a more desirable result.

 

[The Cat]

Tripe. Utter unmitigated tripe. To think this is supposed to be somehow related to a masterpiece of a series like TNG. If TNG had had a bowel movement it would have produced a more desirable result.

TNG is honestly among my least favorite, I'm curious as to what is the driving appeal to you to make it a masterpiece?

 

[Totenkindly]

The actual credits:

Discovery Season 1: Produced by CBS Television Studios in association with Secret Hideout, Roddenberry Entertainment, and Living Dead Guy Productions, with Gretchen J. Berg and Aaron Harberts serving as showrunners, and Akiva Goldsman providing producing support.

Discovery Season 2: Produced by CBS Television Studios in association with Secret Hideout and Roddenberry Entertainment, with Alex Kurtzman serving as showrunner. (Berg and Harberts were fired during production of Season 2.)

Picard: Created for CBS All Access by Akiva Goldsman, Michael Chabon, Kirsten Beyer, and Alex Kurtzman.


I think we already discussed Discovery at length in a different thread? Basically a reshading of Star Trek, with some cool ideas that also suffered dismally when Fuller (showrunner) departed, and it feels like the same problem with the recent SW trilogy -- fighting over creating control and story direction during the execution, resulting in mistimed revelations, a muddled mess for much of it, plus a total reinvention of the season by the end of Season 1 that pleased few if anyone.

I just watched episode 1 of Season 2 of Discovery. It's actually decent on its own terms, although I wasn't looking for a show to go back to more "old Trek" in terms of approach. It's enough that I'll try a few more, although I did run through the Vulture ratings and they are fairly positive overall, with 2-3 duds surrounded by a few stellar rated episodes and finishing well.

TNG is honestly among my least favorite, I'm curious as to what is the driving appeal to you to make it a masterpiece?

TNG is one of those shows I loved when I was in my 20's (I remember my friends and I started watching it at college in our rec room), and I ended up recording all of the episode off TV on VHS. yeah, all of them. Lol. What a great time to be alive -- TNG + the early seasons of The Simpsons, when it was a novel idea.

Then by the time it had been concluded for about ten years, I found it no longer fit my sensibilities, aside from a few really great episodes (or characters like Q, who is fun regardless). I doubt I could sit through most of the episodes now, it's too formulaic for me for much of it. I could name probably 10-15 episodes I'd rewatch. I was really happy when Ensign Ro showed up.

Still, if you look at the "main cast" list, they all really do stick out, they learned how to be an ensemble, they are good in that sense and interlock well.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I think by episode four or five (because of things in the spoiler section), it seemed too dark to really appeal to me. If I feel like watching Altered Carbon (which happens), I'll watch Altered Carbon. People complain about what TLJ did to Luke Skywalker, but

Seven of Nine here (I'm not really familiar with Voyager, so maybe it does fit) was a bit much for me, especially given that it was immediately followed by the likably dorky blonde woman murdering a guy. )

. Up until that point it was darker than TNG, but not jarringly so (maybe a TLJ equivalent), and I could still fit it into the same ethos. It's the difference between Luke briefly contemplating murdering his own nephew, and him actually doing it, which is substantial, IMO.

 

[Totenkindly]

I wouldn't call it dark, honestly. I'm not sure why people are hung up on calling the entire series that -- it's more like they tried to occasionally toss in edgy stuff for some stupid reason, instead of providing a consistent tone. That bit you mention in the spoiler is one of those edgy things. (Pretty sure I mentioned another one or two earlier.)

The show tone itself is actually pretty positive in terms of overall outlook, in terms of how it ended up -- appealing to the best instincts, not worst, of people. What they need to do is get the tone more cohesive and decide what kind of show they want to be and then own it.

The stuff involving Jeri Ryan wasn't really out of character from what I understand -- they kicked Kes (who was a really weak/fluffy character from what I recall of Season 1) off Voyager to make room for 7 of 9, because they needed a character that conflicted more with Janeway, which is the role that character played. (Kind of like when they tossed Ro into the last two seasons of STTNG, to stir things up. I love Michelle Forbes.) She's always stirred up trouble, due to being assimilated into the Borg at age 6 and spending much of Voyager and the last twenty years of ST history trying to figure out who she actually is.

 

[The Cat]

I wouldn't call it dark, honestly. I'm not sure why people are hung up on calling the entire series that -- it's more like they tried to occasionally toss in edgy stuff for some stupid reason, instead of providing a consistent tone. That bit you mention in the spoiler is one of those edgy things. (Pretty sure I mentioned another one or two earlier.)

The show tone itself is actually pretty positive in terms of overall outlook, in terms of how it ended up -- appealing to the best instincts, not worst, of people. What they need to do is get the tone more cohesive and decide what kind of show they want to be and then own it.

The stuff involving Jeri Ryan wasn't really out of character from what I understand -- they kicked Kes (who was a really weak/fluffy character from what I recall of Season 1) off Voyager to make room for 7 of 9, because they needed a character that conflicted more with Janeway, which is the role that character played. (Kind of like when they tossed Ro into the last two seasons of STTNG, to stir things up. I love Michelle Forbes.) She's always stirred up trouble, due to being assimilated into the Borg at age 6 and spending much of Voyager and the last twenty years of ST history trying to figure out who she actually is.

IIRC the OC beef between JAyneway and Seven was nothing compared to the beef OS between Mulgrew and Ryan. Kate did not like Jerri

 

[Population: 1]

TNG is honestly among my least favorite, I'm curious as to what is the driving appeal to you to make it a masterpiece?

As has already been stated it had an excellent cast and it also had the appeal of not lecturing me, unlike so many movies and television shows do now. It presented a problem or a philosophy and allowed the viewer to draw their own conclusions instead of force feeding you what the show runners feel is the obvious answer. It treated the viewer with a level of respect.

TNG was also one of the few sci-fi series to further promote the idea of a brighter future for humanity, in part by having a character like Picard as the Captain. He was cultured, thoughtful, a diplomat, and a staunch advocate of freedom on a personal and societal level.

I didn’t watch Star Trek for it’s dark fatalism or prolific use of F bombs. If I wanted DS9 I’d watch Babylon 5- and I did. I like all sorts of sci-fi for different reasons. If I want dark I’ll watch Farscape, Blake’s 7, The Expanse or a multitude of others. I don’t expect Star Trek to try to be everything but Star Trek and that’s what Picard is. It’s a mishmash of ideas plucked from better examples and written by people that shouldn’t be allowed to write the inserts in fortune cookies.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I've been giving a lot of thought to JJ's "mystery box" and how that approach to storytelling has infected so much (not just Trek).

Yes, I realize JJ wasn't really involved in STD or PIC, but it's obvious after seeing them that his fingerprints are all over them, at least in the approach the writers have taken.

I love a good mystery in fiction as much as the next person, but what I hate is when writers and filmmakers establish a mystery for the sake of having a mystery. [On occasion it works really well--for instance I think the Space Jockey scene in Alien actually works better if you don't try to overexplain it. The absence of solid answers contribute to the feeling of unease both the characters and audience should feel watching that film, so in that case it works and it can be said the mystery wasn't just there for the sake of adding a mystery. Plus when you think about, all the answers you really need about what happened with the space jockey are clearly presented, whereas subsequent attempts by Ridley Scott and his writers to explain the origins have created glaring inconsistencies in the lore and logic of that universe.]

You had best have a good explanation behind the mystery when it comes time for characters to unravel the mystery and find the answers. PIC didn't really do that. The answers to said mysteries made little sense, so it leads me to wonder if the writers came into it with a clear end resolution in mind for any of the said mysteries, or whether they just created them on the fly as lazy plot devices so Jean-Luc Picard would have an excuse to go do Picard stuff. Maybe season 2 will address those mysteries and loose threads, but judging from what has happened so far, and from the general approach I've seen in the mystery box school of storytelling, I'm not counting on it.


Oh yeah, and the torture porn just kind of ruined it all for me. It wasn't particularly brave or "edgy", it just felt like an attempt at creating GoT or Breaking Bad in SPACE (read this in Pigs in Space narrator voice). The F bombs additionally felt like a cheap attempt at remaining relevant and edgy as well. If you can tell a good enough story that's been thought out, you don't need that sort of shock value to carry a story. The reason shocking violence and coarse language worked in grimdark shit like GoT and Breaking Bad was because it was pretty essential to the stories being told--hard to tell a realistic story about the meth business without those elements. For that matter, an occasional swear word in Trek works alright. It carries a lot more weight that way, similar to real world dialogue [see Generations, Data's "oooh shit"]. When it becomes more frequent, it loses its effect, and I find myself having a harder time immersing myself in the narrative and world. Just feels lazy in Trek, a franchise that always forsake shock effects and lazy dialogue in favor of strong characterization and well structured stories.

 

[Totenkindly]

I've been giving a lot of thought to JJ's "mystery box" and how that approach to storytelling has infected so much (not just Trek).

Yes, I realize JJ wasn't really involved in STD or PIC, but it's obvious after seeing them that his fingerprints are all over them, at least in the approach the writers have taken.

I love a good mystery in fiction as much as the next person, but what I hate is when writers and filmmakers establish a mystery for the sake of having a mystery. [On occasion it works really well--for instance I think the Space Jockey scene in Alien actually works better if you don't try to overexplain it. The absence of solid answers contribute to the feeling of unease both the characters and audience should feel watching that film, so in that case it works and it can be said the mystery wasn't just there for the sake of adding a mystery. Plus when you think about, all the answers you really need about what happened with the space jockey are clearly presented, whereas subsequent attempts by Ridley Scott and his writers to explain the origins have created glaring inconsistencies in the lore and logic of that universe.]

You had best have a good explanation behind the mystery when it comes time for characters to unravel the mystery and find the answers. PIC didn't really do that. The answers to said mysteries made little sense, so it leads me to wonder if the writers came into it with a clear end resolution in mind for any of the said mysteries, or whether they just created them on the fly as lazy plot devices so Jean-Luc Picard would have an excuse to go do Picard stuff. Maybe season 2 will address those mysteries and loose threads, but judging from what has happened so far, and from the general approach I've seen in the mystery box school of storytelling, I'm not counting on it.


Oh yeah, and the torture porn just kind of ruined it all for me. It wasn't particularly brave or "edgy", it just felt like an attempt at creating GoT or Breaking Bad in SPACE (read this in Pigs in Space narrator voice). The F bombs additionally felt like a cheap attempt at remaining relevant and edgy as well. If you can tell a good enough story that's been thought out, you don't need that sort of shock value to carry a story. The reason shocking violence and coarse language worked in grimdark shit like GoT and Breaking Bad was because it was pretty essential to the stories being told. For that matter, an occasional swear word in Trek works alright. It carries a lot more weight that way, similar to real world dialogue [see Generations, Data's "oooh shit"]. When it becomes more frequent, it loses its effect, and I find myself having a harder time immersing myself in the narrative and world. Just feels lazy in Trek, a franchise that always forsake shock effects and lazy dialogue in favor of strong characterization and well structured stories.

I felt like the first season of Picard was more about giving Data a proper sendoff, honestly. And it's powerful in that regard, but the rest can sometimes feel like filler. I found the finale somewhat uncompelling, aside from the final 15-20 minutes.

It also had some interesting ideas like the Borg reclamation effort -- that made a lot of sense, I just wish they'd do more with that. Or the android "uprising".

I dunno. I feel like I saw something with some interesting ideas but the writing wasn't up to the ideas, a lot of it is forgettable and/or can feel forced. (even dumb stuff, like his friend calling him "JL" all the time as a way of forced familiarity, I just cannot imagine anyone calling him JL, it doesn't fit him.)

I dunno. I feel like it's a second-tier show -- no worse than average, some moments of transcendence, but never quite gets up to the level it wants to be. It tries to reach beyond its own grasp. But I don't know how much you "fix" a Trek property. The fans are critical and unforgiving if you change things too much, so you're kind of stuck in the same place the show was anchored in regardless. It can't really aspire to be something like GoT or Breaking Bad, unless maybe you do something totally unconnected to the Federation and established characters. Something in its own little corner of the universe and without a perspective that anchors it in Federation space.

I find myself kind of indifferent to a Season 2. Like, is there really any more to say about Picard? More interested in Discovery, although if they never made another season of that, I wouldn't care a ton either. I'd trade them both in for Season 4 of Hannibal with Brian Fuller as showrunner.


---

Of course I'm on the same page as you about Ridley Scott, who has made some amazing movies and some meh movies, randomly. His last two Alien franchise pictures were among the larger disappointments in my cinematic experience. mainly because they should have been great. I agree about the negative impact of trying to explain things that don't need explanation. None of us care about how the alien eggs got to where we found them in Alien, and it makes Alien a lesser movie in some way. They could have tried to explain the Engineers if necessary, I guess, but should have stayed way from connecting to Alien. There were a lot of flaws in the films, which is a shame because the acting and set design/ambiance and creature design was really great. Looks lovely in 4K and 3D too. I've noted before that both films were terribly over-edited as well, which Scott endorsed and maybe shows he has lost his edge a bit, he's kind of losing the things that make his old films more powerful by excising too much. Even the stories told would have worked a lot better if they had not cut down a lot of the emotionally resonant material.

 

[The Cat]

I would call him JL if we were friends. And he would sigh, grimace, and at last slightly smile, because that's just JL.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

^I had always assumed it would be a one-season thing, a miniseries about his final days. I assumed he would die at the end or retire for good, and that would be that. I was genuinely surprised by announcements of a season 2 and possible season 3, but then I should have known dollar signs always speak louder than anything else.

Ideally I'd like to revisit more older characters and cultures this way, do an anthology series where each season focuses on a different person or conflict. Think of the possibilities there. We can still have the grimdark shit since the writers seem intent on continuing that trajectory, but let's expand the world beyond Picard's bubble.

I really hope they don't shoehorn a bunch of DS9 characters into Picard season 2, as there's only a few where it would really make sense for a cameo (O'Brien, Bashir as a possible Section 31 agent, Worf, a BIG MAYBE WOULD WORK IF DONE WELL on Sisko, Quark as someone Picard needs to do a deal with). I can't really see Garak working, despite him being a great character, as I think his arc already had a satisfying resolution and I am not sure how he would fit into Picard's story. Just mentioning that because a lot of people would love to see Garak return. Hell, even a shot of Morn sitting on a bar stool somewhere would be cool.

However, they must revisit any of those characters in the same or similar context as Picard (i.e. how have they adapted to this world 20-25 years on, how are they dealing with the UFP and Starfleet becoming the bad guys, etc) and it could work in an anthology series set in the same time as Picard.


Ridley Scott, and I will concede JJ and his disciples, are masters at visual storytelling. But they do best when other, better writers are involved and they just focus on bringing those stories to the screen.

And I don't think Stewart should've been given so much control in the story. Trek has never done well when the actors got too involved in the production and writing side (Star Trek V, Star Trek Nemesis are great examples). Obviously there are exceptions, some actors are also writers, like if you told me Andrew Robinson were involved in writing a DS9 revival, I'd be more understanding, as he is actually an experienced writer who knows the craft and seems to have a really good understanding of his character and that world. I realize that it was conditional and Stewart likely wouldn't have gotten involved had he not gotten the level of control he did, but then maybe he just shouldn't have gotten involved. I'd almost rather the show jumped 50-100 years ahead of TNG, then they could start on a pretty clean slate and not worry about being too bound to expectations or canon, and do similar stories to what we're seeing in Picard. Similarly I think Discovery should have been set in the future of TNG. I'm still a little sore they didn't go with Singer's Federation series idea (would have been set way into the future of most existing canon) back when it was pitched to the studio execs.

 

[The Cat]

^I had always assumed it would be a one-season thing, a miniseries about his final days. I assumed he would die at the end or retire for good, and that would be that. I was genuinely surprised by announcements of a season 2 and possible season 3, but then I should have known dollar signs always speak louder than anything else.

Ideally I'd like to revisit more older characters and cultures this way, do an anthology series where each season focuses on a different person or conflict. Think of the possibilities there. We can still have the grimdark shit since the writers seem intent on continuing that trajectory, but let's expand the world beyond Picard's bubble.

I really hope they don't shoehorn a bunch of DS9 characters into Picard season 2, as there's only a few where it would really make sense for a cameo (O'Brien, Bashir as a possible Section 31 agent, Worf, a BIG MAYBE WOULD WORK IF DONE WELL on Sisko, Quark as someone Picard needs to do a deal with). I can't really see Garak working, despite him being a great character, as I think his arc already had a satisfying resolution and I am not sure how he would fit into Picard's story. Just mentioning that because a lot of people would love to see Garak return. Hell, even a shot of Morn sitting on a bar stool somewhere would be cool.

However, they must revisit any of those characters in the same or similar context as Picard (i.e. how have they adapted to this world 20-25 years on, how are they dealing with the UFP and Starfleet becoming the bad guys, etc) and it could work in an anthology series set in the same time as Picard.


Ridley Scott, and I will concede JJ and his disciples, are masters at visual storytelling. But they do best when other, better writers are involved and they just focus on bringing those stories to the screen.

And I don't think Stewart should've been given so much control in the story. Trek has never done well when the actors got too involved in the production and writing side (Star Trek V, Star Trek Nemesis are great examples). Obviously there are exceptions, some actors are also writers, like if you told me Andrew Robinson were involved in writing a DS9 revival, I'd be more understanding, as he is actually an experienced writer who knows the craft and seems to have a really good understanding of his character and that world. I realize that it was conditional and Stewart likely wouldn't have gotten involved had he not gotten the level of control he did, but then maybe he just shouldn't have gotten involved. I'd almost rather the show jumped 50-100 years ahead of TNG, then they could start on a pretty clean slate and not worry about being too bound to expectations or canon, and do similar stories to what we're seeing in Picard. Similarly I think Discovery should have been set in the future of TNG. I'm still a little sore they didn't go with Singer's Federation series idea (would have been set way into the future of most existing canon) back when it was pitched to the studio execs.

I could see Garak as new head of the obsidian order and Basheir as head of section 31 and they still have the occasional lunches.

 

[Totenkindly]

...Similarly I think Discovery should have been set in the future of TNG.

Welllll.... funny thing you mention that...

 

[The Cat]

Welllll.... funny thing you mention that...

@_@

 

[Totenkindly]

awwwww.... ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU SAID YOU GUYS WANTED???

EDIT:

Oh wait, here's the more wholesome Picard version:

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I think the STD writers should have just done that from the beginning though. Then you avoid the inevitable canon inconsistencies that always come with prequels and "reimaginings". I realize canonical consistency doesn't matter to all people, and that even when writers try, there's going to a few inconsistencies that slip through. That said, the STD (and to much lesser extent Picard) writers obviously didn't do any basic research on the universe they were adding to. More annoying is the clips I've seen of people like Kurtzman explaining how dedicated they are to maintaining some in-universe consistency, which if true, they're doing a terrible job. It's obvious they wanted to reboot the universe without calling it a reboot, and rebooting is fine, but just admit you're making a reboot and don't lie to a fanbase intelligent enough to know better.

Shoulda just set it in the future to begin with. Besides, isn't Star Trek more about moving forward than wallowing in the past? I mean who actually wanted another prequel series? Most of the discussions I've seen across the web with both older and newer fans about this topic show a majority wanting ST to move forward in the timeline. At least PIC got that right.

Oh yeah I forgot, CBS never really cared about making a great prequel series, they just needed to lock up that era of trek lore as part of their effort to crush all of the fan films people were making about the TOS era.


Sorry about the STD rant, this is a Picard thread, though a lot of the same problems are there with both series.