Norms in society that make no sense?

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

And so has everyone else, according to you. Almost all of the Elites, have had a connection with Epstein. Its almost as if the Elite are all fucking pedophiles.

Are you any different? You vote do you not? Anyone who makes it to the big stage has either great connections, is a pedophile, or is fodder. It isn't that hard to understand. You vote, you are voting for scum, regardless of what you believe in. God forbid, I try to vote for the lesser evil that limits control over the government.

I very much did not want to have to vote for Joe Biden. You loved voting for Donald Trump, who has probably been to Epstein's pedophile island. Maybe Joe Biden has too, but I really did not want to vote for him. There is no connection between Bernie Sanders and Epstein, as far as I am aware.

You don't know what capitalism actually is. It is historically, simply the exchange of goods and service, for currency.

That is currency. Currency is not capitalism.

The issue is, the government itself. Not what financial system it is using. Everything, every financial system has the potential to be great. It all depends on outside factors that determine its functionality though. You denounce capitalism, but probably have a super idealized version of a country that isn't actually communist as your idea "socialist" country, like Denmark or something. When in fact, places like Denmark and Norway (The Nordic model), are capitalist with socialist subsystems. They also have what is called, homogeneous societies. That is what makes it work. Implementing socialistic systems into a non-homogeneous society, is a death sentence. There is not a single system, that isn't homogeneous, that has a successful system of socialism in place, including sub systems. This has entirely to do with different cultures, and different ideas. This is making it difficult for one system to affect the most people with a single act. If you have 100 sub cultures all vying for the same resources who want to use them differently, it promotes cultural infighting, segregation, racism, and classism.

You think that "letting the market decide" everything will fix everything which is exactly why we have all the fucking problems of a plutocracy you were complaining about.

 

[Maou]

I very much did not want to have to vote for Joe Biden. You loved voting for Donald Trump, who has probably been to Epstein's pedophile island. Maybe Joe Biden has too, but I really did not want to vote for him. There is no connection between Bernie Sanders and Epstein, as far as I am aware.

The fact you voted for Joe Biden, despite having multiple accusations of being a pedophile, regardless of if he has been involved in Epstien's island says enough about you. You literally do not care about the facts, you care about media image portrayal.

That is currency. Currency is not capitalism.

You think that "letting the market decide" everything will fix everything which is exactly why we have all the fucking problems of a plutocracy you were complaining about.

Currency is capitalism. Credit, isn't capitalism. Explain to me, how you trade without currency? Currency, implies private ownership of the goods you are selling. To not have private ownership, means you are selling the goods of the state, that are state provided (meaning that everything is extremly poor quality, and produced poorly). If you are selling state goods, you must abide by state rules (which always leads to starvation, ie. North Korea, Venezuela, China). And you as an individual, do not benefit from the selling of goods apart from meager wages. Only in capitalism, do you benefit, from the selling of the goods you own, and make. Otherwise, all proceeds go to the government. Upward mobility, is entirely the result of capitalism. So unless you want everyone to be content with being rice farmers, and other menial jobs... you also have to deal with discontent. Because under capitalism/socialism. It operates under teh assumption everyone will do a job because its meaningful to the economy. How would you incentive people to do blue collar work that degrades their sense of worth, if there is no currency incentive?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

The fact you voted for Joe Biden, despite having multiple accusations of being a pedophile, regardless of if he has been involved in Epstien's island says enough about you. You literally do not care about the facts, you care about media image portrayal.

I didn't have a choice, and when I had a chance to pick a different option, I went with it. You had a chance in primary season to pick somebody not associated with Epstein, and you went with the billionaire associated with Epstein, despite ranting about billionaires who pal around with pedophiles earlier.

Currency is capitalism. Credit, isn't capitalism.

This is simply not true. Credit is definitely compatible with capitalism. It seems like you are using no true scotsman to label aspects of capitalism you dislike as not really capitalism.

 

[Maou]

I didn't have a choice, and when I had a chance to pick a different option, I went with it. You had a chance in primary season to pick somebody not associated with Epstein, and you went with the billionaire associated with Epstein, despite ranting about billionaires who pal around with pedophiles earlier.

Like who? Look far enough, all of them are associated. That is just how the billionaire do.

This is simply not true. Credit is definitely compatible with capitalism. It seems like you are using no true scotsman to label aspects of capitalism you dislike as not really capitalism.

Credit is the product of middle European, not capitalism. Invented by merchants. The entire scheme involves lending money, to people who cannot pay it back. Simple as that. It is a product of predatory action, regardless of what country it exists in. America flourished under the concept of equal gain, that is what made it successful. Not lies.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Like who? Look far enough, all of them are associated. That is just how the billionaire do.

Don't think Bernie Sanders is pals with Epstein, mate. But then you'd have to divorce yourself from a mythical capitalism that has nothing to do with credit.

Credit is the product of middle European, not capitalism. Invented by merchants. The entire scheme involves lending money, to people who cannot pay it back. Simple as that. It is a product of predatory action, regardless of what country it exists in. America flourished under the concept of equal gain, that is what made it successful. Not lies.

 

[Maou]

Don't think Bernie Sanders is pals with Epstein, mate. But then you'd have to divorce yourself from a mythical captailism that has nothing to do with credit.

What part of dynasty did you not get? The entire reason no one took Sanders seriously, was because of the plutocracy. Far easier to attack leftists who just virtue signal, than it is conservatives. Sanders, was as empty as a gun as Alec Baldwins prop gun to the elite.

So you're saying, your concept of capitalism doesn't include this aspect of credit? How is it bad then?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

What part of dynasty did you not get? The entire reason no one took Sanders seriously, was because of the plutocracy. Far easier to attack leftists who just virtue signal, than it is conservatives. Sanders, was as empty as a gun as Alec Baldwins prop gun to the elite.

So you're saying, your concept of capitalism doesn't include this aspect of credit? How is it bad then?

I had some snappy comebacks, but I think the better thing to do is to just stop talking to you about this because it's clear I'm not going to get anywhere.

 

[Mind Maverick]

The pledge of allegiance. We recite that in honor of our so called freedom, and yet every morning the schoolchildren are doing this ritual that is really commie sounding. And sports too, can't worship football without worshiping America. At least North Korea gets a groovy song and dance.

I agree about the mandatory pledge being weird and low-key brainwashy bullshit, but to the North Korea bit...I just kind of wonder if you actually grasp the severity of what they're going through, as it is not even comparable.

The dance and song is far from groovy. It is a horror-fest concealed by smiles. They are all in fear of doing something wrong that gets them executed. They are all worshiping their tyrant out of fear and brainwashing.

In the first video, you will notice the children are crying. That is because North Koreans are taught that the Kims are gods. They do not poop, etc. (lol). They also are taught that the Kims die of exhaustion from working hard for the people. They are not aware of the existence of other races, and they believe all people come from the Kims. Basically, the Kims were once bears who, by eating garlic, became human. That's the only religion that is allowed there. Some of them literally believe the Kims can read their minds.

They do not even have so much as an understanding of the concept of freedom. The defector I linked did not escape for freedom, as she did not know what freedom was. She escaped for rice, as she did not want to starve to death, and she knew she would by staying. She just hoped to find her next meal. She believed what she was told prior to that: the rest of the world envies North Korea, and they have it the best there than elsewhere in the world.

They are not allowed to have access to internet. Someone graffiti'd on a wall "Screw you, Kim Jong-un, you're killing us" and he ordered that the regime go through millions of people to find a matching writing so that this person could be executed. The ability to come online and say "Fuck Trump, he's a narcissist" or "Biden is a creepy pedophile" is something they cannot even dream of doing. The way people insisted upon God being removed from the pledge of allegiance is something they could not only never dream of, but even the freedom of choice of religion is limited to believing the Kims are gods.

I don't think you'd be disrespectful or make lighthearted comparisons like this intentionally, so I'm informing you about what you're actually saying here. I just really don't think you understand the seriousness or severity of what you said.

 

[Mind Maverick]

The number of people claiming not to care what others think, when compared to the number of people maintaining a certain image, reveals a common lie people tell themselves. I say this not in accusation, but to bring up the existence of what I think is a problematic expectation we shouldn't be trying so hard to live up to. We know that "just don't care" is a faulty coping strategy for the majority of emotions, so why is it expected to be different in this? Does anyone enjoy being an outcast, or a social pariah? Does anyone enjoy being judged or gossiped about? Is becoming numb to it really the best solution, even if it can be done successfully?

To me, it appears to be people trying to be/seem invulnerable despite the fact that they are. It seems like a way to cope with the fact that we are hurt when the wrongdoers don't care. I question how effective the approach is. I think that if it was truly effective, there wouldn't be so many people who feel it's necessary to maintain an image, and fear exposing themselves due to the "vulnerability" in exposure. I wonder if a better approach would be to admit that it hurts, process the pain, and move forward.

If people really didn't care what others think, they wouldn't fear opening up and exposing themselves. So what does it mean when someone is open and authentic? Does it mean they don't care, or are they usually able to cope differently, and that is what makes the difference? I can answer this about my own self, but I'm avoiding projecting. I want to know what it usually means in others, not what it means coming from me.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

They do not even have so much as an understanding of the concept of freedom. The defector I linked did not escape for freedom, as she did not know what freedom was. She escaped for rice, as she did not want to starve to death, and she knew she would by staying. She just hoped to find her next meal. She believed what she was told prior to that: the rest of the world envies North Korea, and they have it the best there than elsewhere in the world.

I get what you are saying, but the bolded does sound a lot like the way a lot of Americans think. Ultimately I think a lot of Americans are brainwashed; the difference is that there isn't really a penalty for not believing except perhaps social ostracism in some communities.

Worst case scenario I might be under watch by the NSA/FBI for typing that, but they aren't going to knock down my doors just for typing that, at least not currently. I could see that changing though.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Oh, here's a thing I really hate that is omnipresent: the idea of the president as the high priest of American civil religion. Basically so much of our political discourse is really about whether or not people think the current occupant is good at doing this; very little of it actually has to do with policy. Ultimately I would like the executive branch's importance to be restored to the levels actually specified in the Constitution, but there's really no political will for doing that in either party, and the military industrial complex probably wouldn't like that either. The military industrial complex's power and the overreach of the executive branch are actually closely correlated, as it really became an issue with the start of the cold war. Note that we have been involved in multiple wars since then, but Congress (as specified in the Constitution) has not declared war since WWII.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

There was also no "under god" in the Pledge of Allegiance until the cold war. The addition of this phrase has probably done much to aid in the deification of the American state. and enhanced the brainwashing effects of the Pledge.

 

[Mind Maverick]

I get what you are saying, but the bolded does sound a lot like the way a lot of Americans think. Ultimately I think a lot of Americans are brainwashed; the difference is that there isn't really a penalty for not believing except perhaps social ostracism in some communities.

Worst case scenario I might be under watch by the NSA/FBI for typing that, but they aren't going to knock down my doors just for typing that, at least not currently. I could see that changing though.

Oh, no, I definitely agree that America is being brainwashed in several ways. I'm just saying that to say we're anything even remotely close to what NK is going through is wrong. It's much too heavy for those kinds of lighthearted statements. Modern day North Korea is literally WORSE than Hitler's holocaust of the Jews. The Kim family is much more cruel than Hitler was. (Even Hitler cared about his "own" people.) The reason no one is doing anything about it is because of politics with China that all boil down to monetary resources. Americans do have problems with brainwashing, but we aren't in the middle of a holocaust, and saying "at least those in a holocaust get a groovy song" is just unethical because it is minimizing the horrors of it all. It's a subject that should be treated with more seriousness and respect than that.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Oh, no, I definitely agree that America is being brainwashed in several ways. I'm just saying that to say we're anything even remotely close to what NK is going through is wrong. It's much too heavy for those kinds of lighthearted statements. Modern day North Korea is literally WORSE than Hitler's holocaust of the Jews. The Kim family is much more cruel than Hitler was. (Even Hitler cared about his "own" people.) The reason no one is doing anything about it is because of politics with China that all boil down to monetary resources. Americans do have problems with brainwashing, but we aren't in the middle of a holocaust, and saying "at least those in a holocaust get a groovy song" is just unethical because it is minimizing the horrors of it all. It's a subject that should be treated with more seriousness and respect than that.

Well, I feel like we've been inching towards that territory at our southern border, but I see what you are saying. There aren't gas chambers, but I would argue that there are concentration camps. All those people in ICE Detention centers are awaiting trial and haven't actually been charged with anything.

I should mention ICE is a legacy of that wonderful time when we came together as a nation that politicans in both parties never stop short from expressing nostalgia for.

 

[Hypatia]

When people try to covertly galvanize other people to undermine you through false libel and insinuation, and then complain that you have to like them for it.

And they feel no compunction for it, because they sincerely desire this craven kind of interaction to become the new normal in society, since they're so naturally adept at it.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

When people try to covertly galvanize other people to undermine you through false libel and insinuation, and then complain that you have to like them for it.

If this is supposed to be about me, I can see why someone might think the first part of that, but I don't think it's accurate. The second part has no basis in fact; I don't care whether you like me or not.

 

[Hypatia]

If this is supposed to be about me, I can see why someone might think the first part of that, but I don't think it's accurate. The second part has no basis in fact; I don't care whether you like me or not.

Sigh, no Julian, for the umpteenth time, my posts are not always wise-cracks at your personal expense. Please stop assuming, that anytime I express a negative sentiment, it's because you've done something to upset me. It literally makes me feel like I'm toeing the line at invisible eggshells, and I would like this connection between us to cease.