[Te] NFs being... rational??? or just developed Te?

[Venom]

note: long, and the thread title isnt addressed until a bit late in the post.


1. as a young kid (x-10) years old i was the mr imaginative and outgoing Ne, playful, etc overly happy

2. i was not always well received later socially, ( ) so i became more and more introverted (10-16). i was still probably an extrovert at heart. i loved activities where i could be Ne without social critisism: drama class, sharing creative writing in class, volunteering opinions in appropriate classes as much as any extravert.

3. around 14 or 16 i started to show what i think is Si. i became a pack rat of information. not like a knowledge hungry INTP, but literally just recorded and organized info, while i meanwhile hated organization in the real world. an example is the ridiculous amount of bookmarks that im sure i will never visit again, but i keep to have a record of info should i ever need it lol.

so up until 19 or so i was fairly certain that i was XNFP or INFP...(or at least i had been permanently turned into an INFP from poor social experience)

then around 19 or 20 i had like a TOTAL PARADIGM SHIFT

4. i changed majors from business (which at my school is IMO a joke of a major even though its a top 25 MBA school as well...) to biochemistry.

i've gone from C- in precalc Highschool, C+ chemistry highschool to having a 3.5 GPA in college (i was not dumb in highschool...math/science just didnt make sense to me)...i almost have to do a double take when i realize that i can now do can easily do Calculus and various chemisty number crunching on a daily basis and I ENJOY IT



5. is this an actual shift in my personality or just my final and extreme development of Te???


6. at what point does it stop becoming "the Te is strong with this one" and become, "i think you more Te than Fi!"


7. i have also heard that Te can be much more irrational than Ti because it tends to compartmentalize logical thinking into whatever system Te puts the info into. any truth to this?

 

[Othon]

I had the same experience regarding introvertedness. As a kid I was extremely extroverted and outgoing and whatnot. Social rejection led me to be EXTREMELY introverted. I'm still really shy, but whenever I'm comfortable, I'll be pretty extroverted. So I'm not sure /what/ I am.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

7. i have also heard that Te can be much more irrational than Ti because it tends to compartmentalize logical thinking into whatever system Te puts the info into. any truth to this?

Hmm, something of the kind. I'm thinking of a subjective, stubborn or non sequitur logic in here.

Te is more about exerting influence and having it your way. The drive and interest to do it comes from some other function, Te just provides the blunt instrument to do it. It's more about what someone CAN do or CAN convince themselves or someone other about, with a degree of deception.

It's the more of a practice-orientated thinking function, whereas Ti is the more "idealistic", objective, or true-to-the-core.

But then, Ti is usually strongly paired with a practically orientated real-world functions of Se or Ne, and Te with Ni or Si, so it's not to say that persons strong with Te would necessarily be that much more practical and less pure in logic than their Ti counterparts.

 

[wedekit]

I remember being much more extroverted when I was younger too, but I was socially rejected as well. All I could do in response was hide myself. Kids really can be cruel. I don't doubt that I was an introvert back then, but I think the arduous road I had to walk down as a child really pushed me into extreme introversion.

 

[cascadeco]

Yep, I was extremely sensitive and *extremely* introverted as a teenager as well. To the point where I wasn't really a part of any social group.

I don't see what's stopping an NF from being/becoming quite rational. I know a handful of successful NF engineers, and NF's can be found in pretty much any career. And it's not like NF's are incompetant and can't do well in your more logical/rational pursuits. I always excelled in math/science/analytical subjects growing up, and have tested quite well in those areas.

i've gone from C- in precalc Highschool, C+ chemistry highschool to having a 3.5 GPA in college (i was not dumb in highschool...math/science just didnt make sense to me)...i almost have to do a double take when i realize that i can now do can easily do Calculus and various chemisty number crunching on a daily basis and I ENJOY IT

Maybe it just boils down to your interests changing, and your desiring to put forth more effort with the classes now. And sure, maturity too.

 

[Totenkindly]

note: long, and the thread title isnt addressed until a bit late in the post.

1. as a young kid (x-10) years old i was the mr imaginative and outgoing Ne, playful, etc overly happy

2. i was not always well received later socially, ( ) so i became more and more introverted (10-16). i was still probably an extrovert at heart. i loved activities where i could be Ne without social critisism: drama class, sharing creative writing in class, volunteering opinions in appropriate classes as much as any extravert.

Ne is an extroverted function and is energized by bouncing around and springboarding off other's ideas. I think people who use it as their "engaging function" (with I or E) can appear extroverted, and it confuses type reading.

I was originally very quiet, observing, never said much, always thinking. When Ne kicked in, my social abilities improved and I actually interacted with people and could be a lot of fun when I was around others.

3. around 14 or 16 i started to show what i think is Si. i became a pack rat of information. not like a knowledge hungry INTP, but literally just recorded and organized info, while i meanwhile hated organization in the real world. an example is the ridiculous amount of bookmarks that im sure i will never visit again, but i keep to have a record of info should i ever need it lol.

I do that too...my bookmark file is insane. But every so often I get annoyed and try to org/thin it out. I think Si can have a pack-ratty nature to it especially when it is not as strong/healthy. (Ex: Healthy ISFJs seem to be uncluttered, they know when to let go; unhealthy ISFJs seem to keep everything because of sentimental value, even if it diminishes their capacity to act.)

4. i changed majors from business (which at my school is IMO a joke of a major even though its a top 25 MBA school as well...) to biochemistry.

i've gone from C- in precalc Highschool, C+ chemistry highschool to having a 3.5 GPA in college (i was not dumb in highschool...math/science just didnt make sense to me)...i almost have to do a double take when i realize that i can now do can easily do Calculus and various chemisty number crunching on a daily basis and I ENJOY IT

5. is this an actual shift in my personality or just my final and extreme development of Te???

It could be. I don't know. Older INFPs I've met definitely had that shift; they liked getting their hands on things and feeling like they had some control, they liked implementing things and making them work. It becomes empty if they don't get enough Fi action, but they can become very perfectionist/controlling over all the details of a project once they are in Te-lock.

6. at what point does it stop becoming "the Te is strong with this one" and become, "i think you more Te than Fi!"

I think some people can be one type but be more developed with their secondary (for example). It's more a matter of instinctive motivations, rather than overt behavior. If you are INFP, you will still be an INFP and show a strong Te bent, you will never act more like an ESTJ (for example).

7. i have also heard that Te can be much more irrational than Ti because it tends to compartmentalize logical thinking into whatever system Te puts the info into. any truth to this?

I agree with that. Ti is more concerned with the foundational definitions and that the categories are right. Te tends to take the most convenient/effective categories and use them to get a task done,regardless of how inherently accurate the categories are.

 

[Gabe]

note: long, and the thread title isnt addressed until a bit late in the post.


1. as a young kid (x-10) years old i was the mr imaginative and outgoing Ne, playful, etc overly happy

2. i was not always well received later socially, ( ) so i became more and more introverted (10-16). i was still probably an extrovert at heart. i loved activities where i could be Ne without social critisism: drama class, sharing creative writing in class, volunteering opinions in appropriate classes as much as any extravert.

3. around 14 or 16 i started to show what i think is Si. i became a pack rat of information. not like a knowledge hungry INTP, but literally just recorded and organized info, while i meanwhile hated organization in the real world. an example is the ridiculous amount of bookmarks that im sure i will never visit again, but i keep to have a record of info should i ever need it lol.

so up until 19 or so i was fairly certain that i was XNFP or INFP...(or at least i had been permanently turned into an INFP from poor social experience)

then around 19 or 20 i had like a TOTAL PARADIGM SHIFT

4. i changed majors from business (which at my school is IMO a joke of a major even though its a top 25 MBA school as well...) to biochemistry.

i've gone from C- in precalc Highschool, C+ chemistry highschool to having a 3.5 GPA in college (i was not dumb in highschool...math/science just didnt make sense to me)...i almost have to do a double take when i realize that i can now do can easily do Calculus and various chemisty number crunching on a daily basis and I ENJOY IT



5. is this an actual shift in my personality or just my final and extreme development of Te???


6. at what point does it stop becoming "the Te is strong with this one" and become, "i think you more Te than Fi!"


7. i have also heard that Te can be much more irrational than Ti because it tends to compartmentalize logical thinking into whatever system Te puts the info into. any truth to this?

Read Howard Grant's function developement model. What you described actually fits the ENFP discription very well. You might want to look into that (and make sure that the extraverted percieving function is Ne and not Se. Just to make sure for yourself, because what you wrote sounds completely like Ne). The extraverted thing sounds totally like the developement of the tertiary, and fits the timetable for the teriary. And of course you're still using Si here and there. I bookmark everything, and my violin case has music that I haven't touched for two years. It can still be inferior.
It seems like you actively decided to develop the tertiary function, with a realization that it 'just takes a little work', and quickly came to see it as fun and rewarding, while your original personality remained intact.
What just needs to be known now (for you) is what KIND of introversion you experienced. Was it intensive feeling?

Lastly, you might as well ignore #7. Both functions are rational.

oh. And read some real ENFP profiles

Best-Fit Type : Exploring the Multiple Models of Personality Type It's the 'discoverer advocate'

and Understanding Berens' Interaction Styles compare 'get things going' (ENFP) with 'behind the scenes' (INFP)

 

[Venom]

Read Howard Grant's function developement model. What you described actually fits the ENFP discription very well. You might want to look into that (and make sure that the extraverted percieving function is Ne and not Se. Just to make sure for yourself, because what you wrote sounds completely like Ne). The extraverted thing sounds totally like the developement of the tertiary, and fits the timetable for the teriary. And of course you're still using Si here and there. I bookmark everything, and my violin case has music that I haven't touched for two years. It can still be inferior.
It seems like you actively decided to develop the tertiary function, with a realization that it 'just takes a little work', and quickly came to see it as fun and rewarding, while your original personality remained intact.
What just needs to be known now (for you) is what KIND of introversion you experienced. Was it intensive feeling?

Lastly, you might as well ignore #7. Both functions are rational.

oh. And read some real ENFP profiles

Best-Fit Type : Exploring the Multiple Models of Personality Type It's the 'discoverer advocate'

and Understanding Berens' Interaction Styles compare 'get things going' (ENFP) with 'behind the scenes' (INFP)

the introversion was for sure intensive feeling....im the guy who got teary eyed when watching gladiator ...(its such a sad yet uplifting movie)
im sure my introversion was feeling. i love the idea of archetypal extremes.

dont just make the story about bad or good,...i want it to be good versus EVIL. the hero doesnt lose, he loses EVERYTHING, (before he can come back )....ya im pretty sure thats feeling.

after reading your ENFP descriptions:
i think my desires reflect the ENFP...and in fact when im in a really comfortable position (say im coaching a sports team like last summer) or its a particularly happy period in my life, i relate to the ENFP one way more...

...but i guess certain childhood social experiences or memories prevent me from extroverting a lot of that imagination that ENFPs like to share. insecurities hold me back.

so i guess ive turned into an INFP out of fear...i guess ive found other introverts more accepting. the happy times of my life i was definatly an ENFP . im not sure though if that makes me ENFP though.

 

[redacted]

i think my Ti has been much more visible than my Fe until maybe 2 years ago.

i guarantee if everyone in my grade in high school knew MBTI and typed me, at least 80% would label me NT. maybe 90%.

my Fe was always there, of course, but i always had an extremely small group of friends, and mostly directed my Fe at them. and when you're trying to learn math or science, Fe is pretty useless.

even now, most people see me as rational much before they see my empathy.

i guess what i'm trying to say is only you can be the ultimate judge of your type. and it's completely possible to have 3 well developed functions.

 

[hotmale]

This thread is great! I think we are all INFPs on the inside!

 

[heart]

I have always been very introverted and as a child was extremely withdrawn.

I am actually a lot more outgoing, playful and light minded now than when I was younger.

 

[Venom]

i think my Ti has been much more visible than my Fe until maybe 2 years ago.

i guarantee if everyone in my grade in high school knew MBTI and typed me, at least 80% would label me NT. maybe 90%.

my Fe was always there, of course, but i always had an extremely small group of friends, and mostly directed my Fe at them. and when you're trying to learn math or science, Fe is pretty useless.

even now, most people see me as rational much before they see my empathy.

i guess what i'm trying to say is only you can be the ultimate judge of your type. and it's completely possible to have 3 well developed functions.

i totally see what you're saying! infact this INTJ that i kinda like typed me as an INTP

i think its because as F's somewtimes we realize that the world recieves T better

 

[Camelopardalis]

Haha. INTJ's have Te and Fi as their functions too. The thing is, being good at those subjects do not make you T. Feelers can be exceptional thinkers too. My grades are mediocre in Chemistry and Geometry, but yet I'm a thinker (according to tests anyway). I don't think T or F limits what subjects you're good at, but rather how you respond to situations. I find it hard to respond to Chemistry the F way, however, because you're just dealing with a couple of atoms... No emotions required. So yes, you might have a developed Te, but you can still have a strong Fi.

NFs being... rational??? or just developed Te?

I don't think anywhere does it say that feelers can't be rational

my Fe was always there, of course, but i always had an extremely small group of friends, and mostly directed my Fe at them. and when you're trying to learn math or science, Fe is pretty useless.

Wow! Really? I always direct my Fi outward, and my Te inward. I bet I'd be typed as INFJ any day. I've had occasional bursts of my thinking preference though, and it's not pretty and scared quite a few of my peers, since I was always 'happy' and 'carefree'. It usually shows when I'm angry, and that's one of the only times my true nature leeks through. There was this time, a girl procrastinated until the last minute to put together our project, I was nuts. I asked her in a low voice: "We've had DAYS to solve this problem, and you're telling me this NOW? I'm sorry, but if we can't get this together before we have to hand it in, I think Mr. Cook has the right to know why."

 

[GZA]

Apparently I was once extraverted, but then I became introverted fairly suddenly and without explaination. I wasn't bullied or rejected forcing me to be introverted, I just sort of became introverted at some point. Thats what my mom says anyway, but I kind of think it is only half true because I remember having very introverted qualities when I was very young as well.

I think liking math and science makes perfect sense for an INFP, even if I personally am terrible at those. I know an INFP who LOVES math and excells in it because for him it is like being able to discover and manipulate the meaning of the whole universe. It is like a giant puzzle with all of lifes secrets -just like art is for me. I don't think F or T limits or decides what you do/are good at, but your attitude of how you approach it. My attitude of math and science has always been that it was in a different world I have no part in, because that was my initial emotional reaction to it. But I saw music and art as ways to come to understand the world naturally. My friend simply saw math as the way tos ee the world rather than music, but really we see the two different things the same way.

I think INFP is a funny personality in that sense. It seems we can sort of adapt things to our senses and may seem like we are totally NOT INFP's when we really are. I think this may be why so many people feel confused whether they are an INFP at all and why it is soemtimes assumed that if you can't figure out what type you are you're probably INFP.

 

[quietmusician]

This sounds a bit like me. I am way different now then I was when I was under the age of 10. I think that's when I began to see the world for what it is. And then that lead to my current depressing behavior. I remember liking Science in elementary school, yet I still don't understand Math, lol. So over the past 4 years (since I graduated high school) I've been more on a downward spiral with destructive behavior. I'm trying to change my views in order for me to mentally 'work' in the real world.

 

[anii]

Damn.

I thought you were going to teach us how to be more rational.

 

[kyuuei]

i think my Ti has been much more visible than my Fe until maybe 2 years ago.

i guarantee if everyone in my grade in high school knew MBTI and typed me, at least 80% would label me NT. maybe 90%.

my Fe was always there, of course, but i always had an extremely small group of friends, and mostly directed my Fe at them. and when you're trying to learn math or science, Fe is pretty useless.

even now, most people see me as rational much before they see my empathy.

i guess what i'm trying to say is only you can be the ultimate judge of your type. and it's completely possible to have 3 well developed functions.

Very well said. I guarantee you the friends that think I am a textbook ENFP all never knew me in high school.

Even for a textbook ENFP, with very openly dominant ENFP traits, I am perfectly content being the opposite. I don't mind putting on the NTJ suit at all, it IS a side of me afterall.. just not the dominant one. It doesn't go against who we are to be rational.

I think I feel comfortable saying I have a developed J, and I'm perfectly content with being an I, and I do display these things frequently for those that look for them. The fact remains that if you're 51%, it doesn't mean you ignore your other 49%. My T is usually what saves my ass when my F runs away to the fields.

i think its because as F's somewtimes we realize that the world recieves T better

I'd have to agree. In a work enviornment, I'd have to say I'm more of an ENTJ because that's simply what works the best given the scenario. I tone it down, and display the parts of me that the world receives best because it's just easier overall. When around acquaintences, my F is lacking.. Infact, I believe outside of my close friends and here, I don't ever display my ENFP nature at all.

I think that'd have to be why I seem so textbook around the people that I am capable of being ENFPish around.

 

[mlittrell]

i had a complete "paradigm shift" at the age of 19 also. just because I happen to be a feeler doesn't necessarily mean that i am irrational. from what ive observed on this forum, it seems that the thinkers automatically assume that feelers can't follow any logic flow of sorts, and from what i feel, look down on the feelers in this way. maybe this isn't true, but whatever. i suppose that one can say this is developed Te but i would rather not think that way (though it might be true and might be the case). one of the most logical people i know is an INFP who has a 135 IQ score (though IQ is, imho, irrelevant you still have to be somewhat intelligent to get a score that high). now i dont use "boolean" type logic on a constant basis but if needed i can be extremely logical. i kinda have to be considering im a computer science major and almost every course i have is based on some sort of logic or reasoning.

EDIT:

i did grow up with an INTJ father though

 

[Glycerine]

I was reading an article in the current issue of Psychology Today about how the average brain does not fully develop until the age of 25. So this means that many people are late bloomers when it comes to their individual strengths and talents. For example, a teenage boy may have many good ideas and insights in his head but it may take him a decade for his ability to write to show up in order for him to articulate his ideas effectively. This may not be the best example but maybe it took you a couple of years for all your strengths to blossom in a similar fashion.

On a side note, I'm pretty good at math and chemistry (I hate those subjects but still) but I would say that my Feeling side takes precedent over the Thinking side and that most thinkers could probably beat me in a debate at any time, haha.

 

[nolla]

I was reading an article in the current issue of Psychology Today about how the average brain does not fully develop until the age of 25.

Really? Then why did we have to go to school 7 years old! :steam: Unfair! I wasted all those years with my poor brain.