[MBTI General] nf songwriters/musicians

[OrangeAppled]

It would seem to me that NFs actually are pretty dominant in music. There's way too many idealists, dreamy romanticists, explorers in good/evil, interpretative of experience (rather than celebratory), and abstract artists.

Nah, NFs are dominant in music that NFs enjoy & discuss in an NF forum on an MBTI messageboard . Most of the music we're discussing falls into a specific niche.... a lot of this music is not exactly top 40, and notice how we all seem to know/like the same stuff? I can tell you right now, I know a lot of people who don't know or like a lot of the bands discussed in here....

Apparently ISFPs don't go there. They're almost unattentive on big issues and smug about enjoying themselves. I can see plenty of SP musicians in that respect, but I can't see why people would say "hallmark" ISFPs like Dylan is SP then. And I can use more anecdotes.. Like why would Gavin Rossdale be an SP? Or Chris Cornell? Both write as symbolically as N types. If Shannon Hoon is an NF, then they are too. Rossdale probably delivered the most un-SP line ever: "Everything Zen? I don't think so." Or Cornell, resenting the fact that he tried to let loose once (I love this song):

The day I tried to live
I wallowed in the blood and mud with
All the other pigs

I woke the same as any other day
You know, I should have stayed in bed

It's hard to articulate - after all, we're mostly intuitives posting in this thread, and it's a vibe you get sometimes, with little direct evidence to point to. It's important to note that ISFPs are coming from Fi first and foremost - Fi in itself is pretty abstract and hard to put into literal terms. There's a way ISFPs use metaphor and symbolism that still dips into sensory experience in a way INFPs usually do not. Again, it's hard to pinpoint & explain with words.

In many cases, it's easier to type the person by their interviews and general knowledge of how they are as a person moreso than a lyricist. And then of course, it's still only a good guess at best.

Gavin Rossdale's lyrics are very evocative of the senses, IMO. The song "Body" on Bush's first album demonstrates that very well.

I think Shannon Hoon is an SP also....I don't know what he is typed as in this thread. I'd go with ISFP though.

 

[KDude]

I think Shannon Hoon is an SP also....I don't know what he is typed as in this thread. I'd go with ISFP though.

Some here were guessing Hoon was INFP. Seems like it could be accurate.. his Fi is not limited in all of the stereotypical SP ways. He muses on things that aren't necessarily personal or cryptic at all (I kind of agree about not wanting to analyze lyrics too much though.. but they still make me think nonetheless).

Blind Melon/Toes Across the Floor
Doesn't anybody feel
That all these killers should be killed
And all these healers should be healed
So all these beggers can be filled

And Now tell me why am I to lie
If I'm holding firm and feel the right

Killers, healers, beggers. All metaphor for bigger issues (I'm assuming "healers" are people whose job it is to help, like clergy and politicians). No different than Cornell's stuff too when he condemns "how things are", and how he wants them to be.

Olivia Lufkin writes in similar styles.. although she's less earthy than Hoon. The idealism comes out and shoots into the stratosphere (she also plays with fantasy like themes often too.. she's like a Jrock Kate Bush, but more pissed off ).


I want to be up high up with the sun
Disappear completely into love
I want to be up high up where I can
See the secret roads - < --- SPs wouldn't say that, right?


Sometimes though, she's pissed off about personal encroachments or typical ideas on "goodness".. she'll sound very protective of herself, very Fi (she's not a native English speaker though.. you'll have to forgive her if it doesn't come out eloquently).

I'm riding on a blind unicorn
I'm riding on a blind unicorn
I'm going to throw up now

I have my own ways that I stride
and I'm not going to stride along the lines
of your fucking guidance
Let me follow my own natural instinct
Unlinked from your universe
And your curse
Immerse my diverse ways of my mind
You make things worse
When you babble on about staying positive
and being good
and keeping sane
and sleeping right
and removing my dirty nail polish
You don't think I fucking know that?


If you listen to the rest of that song, it's not concrete. And as for the title, yeah.. I equate my personal quest to riding a vomit inducing blind unicorn into the sun to find secret roads too. I get it

As for interviews, she comes across very IFP at least (most is Japanese though, so I don't know who else can analyze her). Not sure about Hoon in interviews.

Oh, Elliott Smith is another one I'm confused about. How does that guy ever get typed ISFP?

 

[You]

I don't think my favorite artist are NF at all. Culture is mostly the blame, but I have a hard time thinking Miles Davis or Devin the Dude are NFs. Maybe I'm wrong about the latter, but I doubt it. I don't most the people on the list either....beside the ENFPs. They all fall somewhere on my favorite list, from Bob Marley, Jim Morrison to Lupe & Bob Marley. Beyond that, I don't know if these guys aren't top listers.

So what is the NF niche? Where do these guys, beside the obvious alternative Lupe and Mos Defs of the world, fall. I don't know what else to say because I'm watching Quantum of Solace and a girl drenched in black, semi-sexy just came on the screen before 007 just handled a whole crew of lames in an elevator. Can't focus...

 

[KDude]

I think a lot of hip hop (hedonistic and chill alike) fall into the SP category. Many ESTPs and ESFPs it seems. With a dabble of ISFPs, like Andre 3000. Mos Def could be ISFP too, not sure.

Some seem so damn executively badass and high on their thrones that I want to get stereotypical and type them ENTJ Like Rakim..

The NF niche, in Keirseyan terms, is an idealistic.. expansive.. F oriented temperment. Maybe Lauryn Hill would be an NF.

 

[You]

Mos Def is mos def a ENFP. Andre however is definitely a ISFP. The 7 in me makes me gravitate to hip-hop, 60s rock, funk and hippie like.

 

[KDude]

As for Miles, after reading more about tertiary Fi, it almost seems like his Fi fits the bill there. An INTJ maybe.

 

[Llewellyn]

PJ Harvey ?
I've heard ISTP more than anything

But it was changed to ENTP.

yeah - and dylan as an intuitive is like Wildcat as a Sensor.
One is no better than the other, but it is the language

Sensible thing to say that it's the language. Makes some things clear to me.

 

[Srho]

I think Dave Matthews is an INTP. Freddie Mercury is some kind of introvert, he just had his stage persona for the sake of itself but was actually pretty shy.

 

[Srho]

Oh, and a good example of an ENFJ would be Chester Bennington from Linkin Park.

 

[Lotr246]

Fran Healy, the lead singer of Travis, is probably INF(P?). I see more Fe in their lyrics. Would you say their band is more of a type Nine or Four?

 

[the state i am in]

seems obvious now, but jonsi/billy corgan jr = enfj, what with that billy corgan face and jens lekman haircut. and sigur ros couldn't be more dominant Fe. it all makes sense!

 

[HiddenAutumn]

I wonder what type Morrissey is. Any thoughts?

 

[FunnyDigestion]

Avey Tare & Panda Bear from Animal Collective (AT definitely, PB probably), Andre 3000 from Outkast

(edit..)

Andre however is definitely a ISFP. The 7 in me makes me gravitate to hip-hop, 60s rock, funk and hippie like.

I disagree about 'definitely' at least... but I can see ISFP too. A lot of ISFP & INFP art is really similar.

 

[Stigmata]

Mostly good, from what I've heard about the various people on the list.

Billy Corgan is ENTJ, though (2nd guess possibly INTJ.) F and P for him are both ridiculous. Talk to anyone who's been on tour or in the studio with him.

ENTJ for Corgan? No way. He's very much a J, but I'd go with INFJ. If you watch interviews with him, he has this sort of softspokeness and shyness about him, sort of like someone who has been forced to develop a certain level of social expertise due to his position as the band's main figurehead. Everything I've ever read and watch about the Smashing Pumpkins paints Corgan as a very emotionally intense songwriter, I mean, just look at half the songs on Gish/Siamese Dream, a few specific songs on Mellon Collie, and the entirety of the Adore album. In interviews, when he describes an album, he's fully aware of the centralized emotional theme behind each album, and each song has an emotional significance he's trying to convey to the audience, whether it be just pure, raw energy and rage(thinking more along the lines of the Mellon Collie sounds), or his slower love oriented songs(Gish/Siamese Dream). I mean, he's so attached to his work, despite Adore and Machina being considered critical and commercial failures, he blames the fans for not understanding his vision for the reason they were both rejected in comparison to their largely successful counterparts.

As far as the band dynamics go, I think on one hand he was extremely frustrated with the lack of efforts being matched between him and the rest of the band(he recorded the album version bass & guitar parts on Gish & Siamese Dream because he was frustrated with having to explain his vision of how he wanted it), yet he couldn't bring himself to replace/remove them due to the time he'd spent with them building a brand and a legacy, as well as his sentimental attachment to them despite how little they contributed to the end product in comparison to him. I don't think an NT, especially an ENTJ, would let those relationships potentially jeopardize the finished product, which almost happened with just about every single album they recorded. The entire history of the band sounds like some sort of weird social experiment of combining a hardcore NFJ with a bunch of SP's in a creativity based work environment.

 

[the state i am in]

avey tare is enfp 7w6 sx/so. panda bear infj probably 9w1 maybe sp/sx. can't really tell about geologist. morrissey, and some will disagree, is an enfj 3w4 sx type. i used to think infj but i see 3w4 so much more than 4w5, and dom Fe. so deeply kinesthetic and performative.

 

[HiddenAutumn]

Morrissey an ENFJ? You're right, I don't agree. He's not an extrovert by any means.

 

[the state i am in]

many 3w4s wouldn't identify with extroversion. lo and behold, the 3w4s are enfjs, entps, and estps. don't really know extrovert sx/sp types, but that would also be a wrinkle to figure out.

also, i don't know why, apart from how antisocial he seems, Fe dom would seem out of the question. it's just more focused and intense because he's obviously an sx type. plus 3w4s are interesting because you get the ones that are the perfect social performers and embody the socially popular ideal than you get the ones that want to embody the perfect anti-ideal of what is popular.

his image manipulation, control, and sculpting of an impacting performance just to me suggests more Fe dom than Ni dom. i mean, you look at an infj 4w5 sx/sp like conor oberst, not nearly as palpably there or completely present and in-the-body, just kind of thriving on the attention. he wants to, but it's more awkward and avoidant, more false starts, much more conflicted. morrissey is all in, he is completely merged with the moment, with the performance, even if he ultimately walled in in his personal life.

 

[skylights]

i know a 3w4 enfj. the extraversion is very on and off.

 

[OrangeAppled]

avey tare is enfp 7w6 sx/so. panda bear infj probably 9w1 maybe sp/sx. can't really tell about geologist. morrissey, and some will disagree, is an enfj 3w4 sx type. i used to think infj but i see 3w4 so much more than 4w5, and dom Fe. so deeply kinesthetic and performative.

I can see INFJ 3w4 for him. I really think he is an introvert. He's the kind to disappear from family, friends, managers, for months on end without notice. I don't think it's just shyness that makes him avoid people, not as an adult.

I think INFJs can be 3s (pretty sure my bf is INFJ 3w4 also. It's kind of how ENFP 4s can seem like INFPs, because 4 is associated with introversion.), they'd just be more clearly Fe-aux than stuck in some Ni-Ti loop like many INFJ e5s can appear to be. They're not the INFJs you'd confuse with NTs, just as Morrissey is clearly NF & not NT-ish at all.

 

[the state i am in]

I can see INFJ 3w4 for him. I really think he is an introvert. He's the kind to disappear from family, friends, managers, for months on end without notice. I don't think it's just shyness that makes him avoid people, not as an adult.

I think INFJs can be 3s (pretty sure my bf is INFJ 3w4 also. It's kind of how ENFP 4s can seem like INFPs, because 4 is associated with introversion.), they'd just be more clearly Fe-aux than stuck in some Ni-Ti loop like many INFJ e5s can appear to be. They're not the INFJs you'd confuse with NTs, just as Morrissey is clearly NF & not NT-ish at all.

no, morrissey is not nt-ish. he's very F. F enough to be Fe dom in my mind. enough that separates him from any other person i would type infj regardless of 9w1, 4w5, 5w4. maybe an argument could be made for infj 3w4s, but it seems to run counter to any notion of e3 that makes sense to me. this is my thinking at least. i guess it depends if you focus primarily on the definition of introvert as a person who enjoys solitude, or if you focus on a specific cognitive function in the context of many other aspects of personality.