Mind blown: Neanderthal Predation theory

[Synarch]

Just came across this article on the Neanderthal Predation theory: Them and Us: How Neanderthal predation created modern humans - new book and theory of human origins

Obviously, it could be hogwash, but it's fascinating nonetheless.

ut aside everything you thought you knew about being human - about how we got here and what it all means. After five years of rigorous scientific research, Danny Vendramini has developed a theory of human origins that is stunning in its simplicity, yet breathtaking in its scope and importance.

Them and Us: how Neanderthal predation created modern humans begins with a radical reassessment of Neanderthal behavioural ecology. He cites new archaeological and genetic evidence to show they weren't docile omnivores, but savage, cannibalistic carnivores - top flight predators of the stone age.

Neanderthal Predation (NP) theory reveals that Neanderthals were 'apex' predators - who resided at the top of the food chain, and everything else - including humans - was their prey.

NP theory is one of those groundbreaking ideas that revolutionizes scientific thinking. It represents a quantum leap in our understanding of human origins.

Depiction of neanderthals:

What do you think? Crankery?

 

[AOA]

It is fascinating, indeed.

... Kind of reminds me of what I was told about a species that will (apparently) savage every person's lives in the 'end of times' - according to the teachings of a religion I used to believe. They're called Gog Magog.

Interestingly, they existed a long time ago, and savaged people back then; before a kind of two-horned Angel sentenced them to some pit where they were seized from freedom.

Given what we've come to know about the Neanderthal (now) - who knows, the Neanderthal could be them...

(Dun dun dunnnNNN.)

 

[AOA]

... Hmm, seems grizzly enough to (reputably) devour an average human being.

This really is interesting. So, assuming they aren't these Gog Magog - given they were these BIG BAD CARNIVORES, how the hell did they die out? They would have had plenty of meat in us; whom lived on to be...

(What happened; they found a taste for killer dinosaurs, or something? )

 

[Venom]

and to follow up:

neanderthals were stronger and potentially every bit as smart. why did they die out? they required too many calories and couldnt sustain themselves.

so if there had been enough food, would we be here?

 

[AOA]

I don't know. Had they gone on an overload with the calories, they could have decided to ease with the munching, and done more with activity by outdoing the humans whom in-time done so on them by taking over the planet - assuming they were (potentially) as smart as us; as you said. Doesn't sound like it had anything to do with them dying out.

... Unless you got some scientific 'mambo jumbo'?

 

[Venom]

the "they needed too many calories" is a legit argument ive read before.

but who the hell knows id imagine there was some sort of food shortage that made their caloric intake a disadvantage

 

[AOA]

the "they needed too many calories" is a legit argument ive read before.

... woah, you said 'too many calories' to sustain themselves - by which we take you meant they already HAD too many calories.

Want to clarify?

 

[ajblaise]

It's interesting, but I'd really like to hear a counter argument against the Neanderthal predation theory. Couldn't find something critical of it after a quick search, though it's a new theory. If anyone finds anything, you should post it.

It's funny to see how Stormfront is reacting to this.
Neanderthal - brutal, man eating rapists? - Stormfront

 

[AOA]

^^ Woah, that sounded... epic.

(I'm going to think about this.)

 

[ygolo]

The Neanderthal Predation theory was an interesting read. I wonder how well Vendramini's hypothesis has been tested. It seems, if nothing else, he has made his hypothesis rather specific--hopefully specific enough to be tested.

However, I always find it suspicious when new ideas go directly to the public, in book form, rather than in chunks through journals.

Vendramini calls himself a "theoretical biologist." I had no idea there were such people. It is encouraging to know that biology also has people willing to be called loonies.

He seems to have some support from colleagues--at least a forensic artist.

-----------

He also has another idea out there called Teem Theory--the theory that there is a second type of evolution that allows the environment to "instruct" evolution through "junk DNA" (I presume he means introns).

second-evolution_index

He says this is not Lamarckian evolution. Teem Theory does not claim that acquired physical characteristics are transfered. Rather, it claims behaviors and emotional responses are--through a mechanism called Trauma Encoded Emotional Memory. Vendramini says that this only works in organisms that have Central Nervous Systems.

-----------

Both Neanderthal Predation and Teemosis seem like rather bold claims to me. Though, my initial impression is that he has more direct support for Neanderthal Predation.

These topics are well outside my usual circles of investigation. So I refrain from passing judgment on the ideas. I just have my initial impressions. I have no clue if these are crackpot ideas or not.

 

[FDG]

Uhm. I've read Jared Diamond's books, and they seemed much more reasonable than this. I'm not a specialist, though, so I can't comment properly.

 

[Synarch]

However, I always find it suspicious when new ideas go directly to the public, in book form, rather than in chunks through journals.

Yea, that's often the case with crank ideas.

He seems to have some support from colleagues--at least a forensic artist.

If he's an entrepreneurial chap, it would be simple enough to pay a forensic artist. I don't imagine their doors are beaten down with good projects.

I wasn't aware of teem theory. I like ideas like this. Completely out of left field.

 

[Lateralus]

It's an interesting theory, but probably something that can never be proven. We'll probably never know much about neanderthals and their interactions with humans. The prevailing ideas about neanderthals seem pretty lame though, like there's too much anthropomorphizing going on.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

and to follow up:

neanderthals were stronger and potentially every bit as smart. why did they die out? too many calories to sustain themselves.

so if there had been enough food, would we be here?

I guess the idea is that our numbers were drastically reduced by their predation, which meant one of their food sources was drastically reduced. I gather there wasnt a hell of a lot of food around at that time anyway, given the conditions. Add to that possible intra-neanderthalian stoushes incited by the need to feed, and it's possible they wiped themselves out after they'd almost wiped us out. There's also mention of the fact that this predation was an evolutionary pressure on humans. So maybe with the neanderthal population on the decline and the (new+improved) human population on the rise, humans finished the job of genocide. Wildy speculating here, but this seems to be the place for it.

I'm not quite sure where the whole abduction/rape aspect fits into his theory though. Is it just to explain why our mythology keeps producing the idea of hairy beasts who want to rape our women? Isn't there a theory though that neanderthals interbred with humans until they ceased to be separate species?

Oh and while I'm wildly speculating, nephilim = neanderthals? They were around before the flood, right? And a big chunk of the reason mankind were almost completely wiped out? Lemme see if I can find it.

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God (ie Nephilim) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Maybe that's a residual and distorted memory of NP?

 

[Halla74]

and to follow up:

neanderthals were stronger and potentially every bit as smart. why did they die out? they required too many calories and couldnt sustain themselves.

so if there had been enough food, would we be here?

I finished 3 of 4 years of a B.S. in Biology, befroe changing my major to MIS.

In one of my last classes, a comparative vertebrate anatomy class, a discussion of Neanderthal Vs. Cro Magnon came up. Someone asked how the Neanderthals died out. The professor's stated that he had heard of a theory that hypothesized Neanderthals died out possibly due to upper respiratory infections, especially during the winter months. The design of the skulls predisposes them to have HUGE sinuese, which create alot of surface area, that is wet, dark, and exposed to the open air, a perfect breeding ground for bacteria, especially in a world without readily available antibiotics.

I've never seen a picture of them look like a demonically possessed ape. I've always seen them with kind of the heavy brow, "cave man look", but never demon apes.

Depicting them as demon apes makes this bozo's theory more believable, right? :yim_rolling_on_the_

Furthermore, how much longer do you think it will take for someone to feel better about humans killing gorillas? "The tables have turned" kind of thinking...

 

[EcK]

no comment
(except they totally gave that modern man a Jason Statham look)

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Is it only me who wonders why the "modern man" is almost always caucasian-looking?

 

[Halla74]

no comment
(except they totally gave that modern man a Jason Statham look)

Nice find!

The Neanderthal in the lower picture looks like the typecast of a Soviet/KGB interrogator, or Russian Mob hitman. Far from the demonically possessed ape posted before!

 

[Lateralus]

In one of my last classes, a comparative vertebrate anatomy class, a discussion of Neanderthal Vs. Cro Magnon came up. Someone asked how the Neanderthals died out. The professor's stated that he had heard of a theory that hypothesized Neanderthals died out possibly due to upper respiratory infections, especially during the winter months. The design of the skulls predisposes them to have HUGE sinuese, which create alot of surface area, that is wet, dark, and exposed to the open air, a perfect breeding ground for bacteria, especially in a world without readily available antibiotics.

Could some sort of super cold also wiped out the mammoths? They surely had even larger sinuses.

 

[Halla74]

Could some sort of super cold also wiped out the mammoths? They surely had even larger sinuses.

I am no virologist. I do know that viruses common to birds->pigs->humans can jump species and mutate, as per the current H1N1 pandemic. I know nothing of elephant viruses.

My assumption would be that the ability of a (sever/lethal) virus, is the rate of transmission/infection between hosts. In pack animals I would suspect this a problem. Humans live in close proximity to one and other and share much "public" space/surfaces (railings, door knobs, etc.) so infection is no problem there.

Even with domestic (outdoor) cats, they are somewhat solitary, but they do socialize, and there are Feline Leukemia and Feline AIDS thinning their ranks.

Again, that's an aside comment of a professor in a biology class I took 15 years ago. The theory could have been proven utter bullshiot by now, that's just the last time I have discussed Neanderthals in any great detail with anyone. I've got other shit to do.