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Mike Flanagan's series

Z Buck McFate

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Frank Langella, I think you got his name confused with Robert Loggia.

Yeah I have no real idea what the details of the accusations were or how quantifiable they were. And that's not me ignoring this stuff happens, I just had no idea what really was going on.

Langella does have a hardness and coldness about him, he can play a pretty nasty character when he wants. I could see him being dour, twisted, bitter, sullen and so forth.
LOL. Yeah, I had the actor confused too. I can remember thinking - when the cast was revealed - that I'd thought the actor died (because he did).

I feel it's more of a spectacle show honestly. Just people tearing up the scenery and crazy shit going on, just cutting completely loose. I mean I don't think I'm going to be "haunted" by it like I am by Bly Manor, but I'm having a great trip watching it, lol. Holy shit.

Which, hey, can be indicative of Poe including House of Usher -- that whole ending where the narrator has to flee the house when the "dead" sister goes after her brother during a storm, lol. Or the Red Death totally slays an entire house of desperate partiers. A guy ripping up the floorboards to expose the corpse he placed there because he hated the guy's creepy eye and now imagines his thudding heart filling all of his senses. It just kinda is what it is.
Agreed. It's still a fun watch, but packs a different kind of punch.

Worth mentioning: I thought Ruth Cobb was a pretty good fit in the Midnight Club (? that Flanagan Netflix series that was geared for teens). I have no problem with the actress, I just question whether this role was a good fit. Times being what they are (and it's definitely preferable to when women could be harrassed and/or worse), *if* she was being too sensitive, it wouldn't be available to dump her and keep Langelle.

The first time I saw Bruce Greenwood in anything was the Atom Egoyan movie Exotica. I haven't met anyone else that likes it, but I loved it and he was a big part of why.
 

Totenkindly

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Hilariously, I had an oblivious first encounter with him in First Blood, he was one of the guardsmen who trap Rambo at the mine.

Thirteen Days was probably the first real role I saw him in, but I never ever forgot him again once I saw him as Pike in the Star Trek reboot.

I'll have to look for Exotica.
 

Totenkindly

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Based on our conversation yesterday about Greenwood I was dying in Episode 4 when Roderick gets all flustered while interrogating his daughter running the chimp labs about her sister's death and they get into this awkward banter where he ends up swearing up a storm -- hearing all those flabbergasted gutter swears tumbling out of his mouth was a total experience, I couldn't stop laughing. (Just imagine a guy for whom swear words seem a bit awkward being confused, bewildered, outraged, flabbergasted, incensed, and befuddled, dropping a lot of unexpected swear words and facial expressions at once.)
 

Totenkindly

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Finished HoU a few minutes ago.

I like the last two episodes a lot, they actually had some emotional beats that were rather moving. (The ending itself, not as much -- and I'm afraid that bit with Madeline coming up the steps kinda veered into silly -- but how can I fault it? It's totally from the story.) The Arthur-freakin'-Pym bit with Verna was actually choking me up, which tells you how great the acting was because Pym is a pretty dry character. Really great outcome.

Okay, the finale has the basement payoff I have been waiting for all series, and I totally knew what was there! :D I just was so delighted to watch that play out, I knew it was coming and it was glorious. (A few of you might recall my very first username on this and other typology sites was Fortunato.)

Frederick -- damn. That was harsh.

Anyway, even without the consistent richness of the other Flanagan series, this one had its moments. (Madeleine being fucking Cleopatra reminded me so much of the Knot's eulogy in Doctor Sleep.) And Lenore.... And the final meeting at the funeral with Anabelle Lee...

Again, I feel like this was just a one-off "let's go crazy!" series for Flanagan. Something a bit different for him. Not really scary, which is fine; but evocative, and totally off the rails with the craziest plot moments (kinda rivaling that moment in the subway with Frank and Zoe in "House of Cards"). I had a stunned and/or flabbergasted look on my face for much of it. Also, where I think it excelled: It was SUCH a wonderful pastiche of so many Poe stories worked into the same narrative, that was where the creativity was, translated all the most favorite stories and poems into one large narrative and making the definitive plot elements and images work. It was essentially a Poe love letter.

I really have to give a shout-out to Willa Fitzgerald, who portrayed young adult Madeline. I know how good an actress she is because of how different her character in Reacher Season 1 was (and she really stood above the crowd there too!) and she just really makes young Madeline pop, even more than Mary McDonnell (old Madeline) does. Like, when she's on screen, your eyes just go to her -- kind of the Margot Robbie effect.
 

Totenkindly

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My reading has been terrible lately, just to not being willing to sit for a few hours at a time, but I am trying to tell myself that 2 hours spent watching a movie is time I could spend in a book.

I just went through the DC again for "Doctor Sleep" and I would really like to read this book. I am pretty sure the ending has some differences because Flanagan keys off the film version of "The Shining" in terms of where this second story picks up and how it ends (with the hotel still standing when Danny and Abra arrive), so my feeling is that he has done a brilliant job of bringing everything full circle and might in fact be better in some ways from what King wrote, based on constraints he imposed on himself narratively when he completed "The Shining." You can see him in the script actively trying to pull Danny's, Jack's, and the Hotel's arcs all together to provide a similar resolution to King's altogether, it's just that the films and the books took their own separate routes.

Rebecca Ferguson just owns this film, as Rose the Hat. I need to really experience the book version, but I can't imagine her being more perfectly cast or written/acted. Also, Zach McClarnon brings a sensitivity to his portrait of Crow Daddy here that really brings nuance to the film. One thing I really love is how The True Knot is both sympathetic and just god-awful, all at the same time. Like, the writing and the cast make them accessible, and you can see their perspective, and how they ARE a family and committed to each other's well-being, and you can tell how much Rose and Crow mean to each other -- and yet then there are moments in the film where they are both totally awful people, and at core what they are are predators and scavengers, buying extra life and time at the expense of innocent people who are like them. They are the worst of the worst, big-picture, while still possessing traits that would otherwise be good. Even Snake Bite Andy, who is less likable, is understandable as a young girl preying off men who would prey off children -- you can get behind her mission, even if not where she ends up.

I think Abra's parents are the least defined characters, which is disappointing. Abra herself is kind of interesting but a bit flat -- her primary situation of interest is that she (like others with the shine) has felt the need to hide themselves in order to keep their parents' love. (This film feels so much like a queer experience in some aspects.) Which only aligns further with the RWBY posters and stuff around Abra's room. Now that I have been heavily into RWBY for nine months (that's it??), there are two large wall posters (the quadriptych of the four RWBY mains, from Season 1 cover, is one of them), and she literally has the Todd McFarlene of Emerald on her night stand, which when she wakes up one morning the camera shoots through in order to show her face. (Emerald's semblance is illusions.)

This film also can be credited as having one of the most agonizing drama/horror/crime scenes in existence, when the True Knot feeds off the Baseball Boy (Jacob Tremblay). Tremblay's responses are so real that I am sure people have had nightmares about it, after viewing this film. I think it is an important scene BECAUSE the True Knot can sometimes seem likable and even admirable in their connection to each other, but this scene really reveals how awful they are. There's other feeding sequences, but typically they cut out early or the emotional dynamics are different.

I really like Danny's arc, which I assume is emulated in the book. It's not a happy ending at first. He might have survived The Shining, but it scarred him and made him hide who he was -- become less than who he was -- far into his adult years. He finally finds a way to use his gifts, after he hits rock bottom and decides he needs to get better, to help guide those nearing the line between line and death, and he does good here in bringing comfort and wisdom to the needy. THis happens so much IRL, people are strong enough to survive but it still drags them down into adulthood and they feel like they are not achieving what they might have, but if they are fortunate and strong, they manage to find some way to channel who they are into something helpful to others based on their experiences. But you can tell they are still wounded in some ways. (I am still working through stuff myself.)

This is like Danny's chance to really work through his own shit and regain some healthy pride in himself. Life taught him to lay low, hide himself, and his initial advice to Abra is to protect herself and do the same. And he's not wrong in some ways. But Abra is too young to be willing to accommodate that, she is going to use her ability to make changes and strive for good, and Danny eventually realizes that even though he is no longer a kid, he now is the adult in the room who needs to essentially mentor Abra and help her achieve her goals and not diminish her with his own fears. In the process, he ends up having to work through his own shit, his own unresolved feelings with both of his parents, and the looming shadow of the Overlook.
 
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Z Buck McFate

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I picked up a used copy of Doctor Sleep at a library booksale last year, but I have the same reservations about reading it - there's a good chance Flanagan's rendition is just a lot better. Although yeah, there's bound to be additional storyline that'll be interesting. (Also I want to read Shining first).

Absolutely agree about the knot being effectively humanized, in spite of being really awful. That's no small feat.

Flanagan really has a knack for choosing the perfect actors for his roles, nine times out of ten. Eta: Zahn McClarnon breathes amazing depth into every character that he plays.
 
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Totenkindly

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If this doesn't make you love Jacob Tremblay, I don't know what would.
Any adult who was part of this production is probably still having nightmares of shooting this scene -- and Jacob is like, "Yeah, nailed it!"

1709428267098.png
 

Totenkindly

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So I finished the book of Doctor Sleep last night.

Really fascinating because it's like two people were crowdfunded to tell the same story with semi-similar beats but there's quite some variation along the way. King's book is built off the premise of the end of The Shining (with the big change being that the Overlook burns down), vs Flanagan telling the version of the story where the Overlook remained standing but just abandoned as per Kubrick's film. Both mediums use their version of Overlook history appropriately, it's just funny where everything ends up. Tonally it's similar, but plot point ways, there's actually a lot of difference in where the pieces all end up.

Since I saw the film first, I could view it as its own authentic story, self-contained. Reading the book, you see a lot more about how Flanagan simplified / centered in on a core cast, cutting a few characters and/or consolidating their roles in the film, reducing the character list, and also simplifying the plot more because he had less than three hours to play with and he still needed his scenes to breathe so there's a lot of slow build in the film. Also, King has all the real estate to add more intricate / messier plotting and longer timelines; but a film has far less, so you can see how Flanagan condensed timelines and focuses more on essential detail versus over-complicating or over-layering the plotline. It's like particular scenes get used or particular ideas get used but just at different spots or to different effect.

But it's very much like each was handed the same box of parts and told to use what they could to tell their particular version of the story.

So I very much like both of them, they feel the same overall in the broad sense; but building off Kubrick's film, Flanagan needed to land in a different place and they feel a bit different in the details.

I think it's ironic how King deals with communicable disease years before COVID happened -- the fact that the True Knot is exposed to measles but never took their vaccinations and end up paying for it later. He is pretty often tapped into these kinds of things before they hit the news.

There's some things that also show up in the film that are from the book and some not, including particular lines. A big one is when Grampa Flick cycles out -- that great speech by Rose was totally Flanagan, it does not occur in the book. The scene with Halloran in the hospice does occur with his big speech at the end, and it "feels" the same, but it's handled in the details very differently. The baseball boy scene is handled mostly off-screen in the book but is a big moment in the film.

I think it's great that you can watch Flanagan's film before reading the book, and not entirely be able to guess what Flanagan wrote himself vs what was pulled right from the book. Anything happening in the Overlook in the film is totally Flanagan.

as far as the fate of specific characters:
 
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