Logic: The ultimate fun killer

[Virtual ghost]

The ones that went through my "How unspontaneous is too unspontaneous" know that I am pretty good in killing a fun and this thread is a continuation of that thread.

In my head there is a process that mixes thinking, analysing, planning and it is there all the time. I can ignore is for a short periods of time but generally it is always there and this is what makes me asimetrical.

But the thing is that this makes me too critical and analytical for everyday life. One good example of this is that I am can't enjoy pop culture.
My biggest problems are probably movies so I have stoped watching them in general.


About once a year I go to the movies with someone. But if I am going to watch something that is more already familiar to me.
But here things start to complicate.

Since we got there by car I can already know about how long movie lasts since I know condicions how and where car is parked.
Since I am interested in this I already know about what it is about and who is playing who. Also I know how it is going to end since almost all moves have happy endings or somethings stays a little bit unsolved so that they can make another one.

So when I actually sit in my chair I have in a way already seen a movie I want to watch. Also it is not hard to reconstruct even the details some 10 minutes ahead.
Also because of my abstract world in which I am every day (in my head) makes me extremly hard to impress. It has happen to me that I am so bored that instead of watching in the screen I am studing a impact of scenes on people around me.

I am curious about others, does this kinds of things happen to you to?


Also in this part of the story there is also one more. Which is that there is planty of logical holes.

Someone uses some special skill and it turns out that this move was a right move. But then in some other situation that person doesn't do the same thing just for the sake of a story even if it is logical.
I know it's fiction but I notice this kinds of things always. I will not go into a specifics, but I have found plenty of holes. I am not talking about situations when it is obvious but when there is logical inconsistency that is not that much obvious. After all I have an entire thread to do it.



Since I highly strategic person I had a huge problem with "Lord of the rings" triology. For strategic point of view this is nonsense.

Mordor had the uper hand, offensive position and it managed to lose everything. So if Sauron is really such a bad ass I think he should have made better moves. He should have had gathered and group of Naz'guls and send them forward to raid villages do reduce human numbers before battle even starts.
Also it makes no sense at all not to leave someone in that chamber at mount Doom. Since that is so important area which must guarded at all costs.
Once you have that can start laying siges to mayor cities and towns.
This is wnat I think about this in short.


What I am trying to say every movie that comes has some serious problems with logic and the only way I can enjoy at least to some degree is that I don't watch it to enjoy but to search for holes.


Can anyone relate or at least comment?

I have confessed parts of this trait and people were shocked by my approach.

 

[Accept]

I have learned to go to movies alone, or with another INTx type, unless the movie happens to be based on an absurd premise to begin with (nothing to pick apart in a Get Smart, because there's no reality to begin with.)

When I used to go with others to more serious movies there was always a decision to be made when they asked if it was enjoyable. Either I could be honest and begin discussing the plot holes, only to have them tell me I should learn to lose myself in the story (hard to do when the mistakes are noticed,) or I could make some agreeable, but dishonest comment to reassure them it was okay, but then they rarely believed me since I couldn't share their enthusiasm.

The Lord of the Rings trilogy was painful to watch, but at least I didn't notice anything wrong since I wasn't paying much attention to the screen. Nice special effects and not much else worth watching, plus I was bitter that they left out Tom Bombadil and Goldberry (ruined it before I even entered the theater.) Also lost interest in Star Wars I, II and III because of bad acting, and the ridiculous dilemma of being outsmarted by a maid pretending to be the princess - the "Oh my, you've outsmarted me again, so I don't know what to do next." A repeated scene I may not recall correctly since the prequel trilogy was mostly boring.

Yet sometimes there are movies like Titanic and Pearl Harbor that are actually fun to watch because it becomes a challenge to find any scene that isn't a plot hole.

 

[Totenkindly]

But the thing is that this makes me too critical and analytical for everyday life. One good example of this is that I am can't enjoy pop culture. My biggest problems are probably movies so I have stoped watching them in general.

I can get into those mindsets too, and I tend to be very picky about "good movies" even if I've learned how to enjoy movies on their own merits. This goes for any sort of artistic endeavor, I would automatically see any inconsistencies and it would ruin the experience for me. Again, it was more a matter of accepting the work for what it intended be, rather than expecting it to conform to my favorite principles.

So when I actually sit in my chair I have in a way already seen a movie I want to watch. Also it is not hard to reconstruct even the details some 10 minutes ahead.

Most stories and movies ARE very predictable. I become very delighted when a work of art (music or narrative) catches me off-guard by doing something I didn't anticipate but that still makes sense; in fact, I consider that the "best" art... art that is capable of surprising me. "Delight" is very much the word for it too, I become just enamoured by it.

Humor's the same way; when a twist or punchline catches me surprise, that is when I laugh the hardest; most humor is too predictable to make me laugh.

Also because of my abstract world in which I am every day (in my head) makes me extremly hard to impress. It has happen to me that I am so bored that instead of watching in the screen I am studing a impact of scenes on people around me.

Yes, I've done that.

Someone uses some special skill and it turns out that this move was a right move. But then in some other situation that person doesn't do the same thing just for the sake of a story even if it is logical.

That's one of my pet peeves in a movie. I can recognize when something is done out of contrivance, and it's annoying.

Mordor had the uper hand, offensive position and it managed to lose everything. So if Sauron is really such a bad ass I think he should have made better moves. He should have had gathered and group of Naz'guls and send them forward to raid villages do reduce human numbers before battle even starts. Also it makes no sense at all not to leave someone in that chamber at mount Doom. Since that is so important area which must guarded at all costs.

Are you going by the movies or the books here? (I found the movies to be full of contrivances, which is why I did not enjoy them.)

I think the premise in the book, really is that:

(1) Sauron is still building his forces, and most of the middle-earth forces are bent on distracting Sauron from the small group that is carrying the ring south. So the good guys are actively trying to misdirect him from the goals you suggest he should be chasing; they're creating trouble for him elsewhere.

(2) Sauron is full of hubris. He would never consider destroying his ring; if he were his enemy, he would use the ring. That is in fact his greatest fear in the book, he envisions Aragorn or another trying to use the Ring. It never crosses his mind they won't. Even the greatest lords of the earlier age tried to use the Ring; and there are few to rival those in Middle Earth now.

(3) The absurdity of a few people taking the Ring all the way to the Crack of Doom without being caught or using the Ring's power (since that would trigger Sauron's attention) made Sauron dismiss that option as fantasy.

I mean, really. Think of it in terms of life insurance: Would you really waste money on a policy to cover yourself for being beheaded by someone? Yes, if you lose your head, you're dead, so the outcome is dire; but the odds are SO ridiculous that it's just not worth the investment. You'd sooner win Powerball with one ticket.

As I said, Sauron knew as soon as Frodo put on the Ring, as he would have known with anyone; and anyone else would have put the Ring on earlier; Frodo had to fight like mad internally to not do so; and the purity of his heart in the books probably left him to be one of the few people in middle earth who could have withstood that temptation.

There was no reason to put a contigent there... and also, Sauron thought the Ring would go to Minas Tirith, as that is what HE would have done.

Evil with gobs of power is much more stupid that people give it credit for; it can't conceive of the idea of personal sacrifice to the point of pain, weakness, and death; it can't believe people would purposefully choose NOT to wield power if they could get it.

And this is why Sauron lost.

 

[reason]

I notice many logical inconsistency in Antisocial one's posts.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I notice many logical inconsistency in Antisocial one's posts.

Can I get some examples?

Are you going by the movies or the books here? (I found the movies to be full of contrivances, which is why I did not enjoy them.)

Movies.

 

[FallsPioneer]

I don't know, Antisocial one. You've made some of the most awesome posts ever. Including the opening one.

Anyway. The purpose of (most) movies is to entertain. Logic can be used for amusement, like you can say "there's no way he should be able to dodge that bullet," and etc. People constantly make fun of that one Superman movie where Lex Luthor's big scheme was to create extremely valuable real estate. But laying critical stuff on too thick and/or in something of an inappropriate context, as with something that is supposed to be enjoyed/experienced like a movie, does defeat the fun. Just sounds like your approach and what you get out of it doesn't match with the people you're seeing with.

I relate to what you do; I do try to figure out many movies I watch, although I've been doing it less and less lately, probably because I've been watching a lot of light stuff nowadays. When I watched Quantum of Solace, the new Bond movie, I was thinking "why the hell did they only mention the name 'Quantum of Solace' in the last 10 minutes of the movie, and what is it supposed to be anyway?"

 

[Giggly]

Yes, I have this problem somewhat. Not enjoying movies comes from being closed-minded. You don't want to see what is showing for whatever closed-minded reason you have, and therefore, you miss out on the entertainment. Like for instance, I don't like violent movies that aren't based on a true story because I don't like the idea of senseless violence, and I don't like horror movies because I don't see the point of being frightened unnecessarily, but I would actually like to change my mentality about this. More entertainment = more fun. I need to be bombarded with lots of violent movies and horror movies. lol

 

[Grayscale]

i see movies as a form of entertainment... personally, they are a way for me to hear a story in a way that stimulates the senses and often times I find myself judging a movie based on how thought-provoking it was.

realism is nice, but as long as i understand what was intended, i prefer not to allow the shortcomings of the writer or director to affect my experience. my INTP friend also seems to allow small, meaningless details ruin the movie for him, which doesnt make sense to me.

 

[Tayshaun]

In my head there is a process that mixes thinking, analysing, planning and it is there all the time. I can ignore is for a short periods of time but generally it is always there and this is what makes me asimetrical.

But the thing is that this makes me too critical and analytical for everyday life. One good example of this is that I am can't enjoy pop culture.
My biggest problems are probably movies so I have stoped watching them in general.

Can anyone relate or at least comment?

Yes, I can relate...almost painfully.

It is worth learning to shut down the processor.

Becoming simply present, giving something your immediate sensory attention, and putting your thoughts on hold can be very difficult. It enables one to explore other functions, Se especially, and expand our levels of experience.

It replaces the uncomfortable analytical aloofness with something more akin to withdrawn yet open meditativeness which is often deemed more attractive by others.

 

[01011010]

That is the funniest thread title ever.

 

[CrystalViolet]

I don't think this is just a T thing. There are some movies I just can't watch because the premise is ridiculous. Although I don't consider LOTR one of them. A lot of Horror movies for example. Dr Who is a bit ridiculous (it's still fun to watch though). Some medical dramas drive me absolutely nuts. House irritates me. That's not how medical diagnosis is done Ladies and Gents. (and I've been banned, by house mates, from watching anything fictitious and medical, unless it's MASH reruns). Anything involving crime solving, I think is included in the ban too.
Also anything that misapplies any scientific theory I'm familiar with, I'll pick holes and dissect for days.
Yes, it's a logic thing, but it's an intelligence thing as well. Some movies really aren't that enjoyable, because they require you to dumb down significantly. I tend to stay away from Box office hits for that reason.

 

[Kora]

My father does that ALWAYS, he only likes belic and historical movies. It can be somewhat annoying.
However, I usually watch movies for the sake of imagination as I tend to focus more on the possibilities and the 'take-me-to-another-reality' value. I don't pay too much attention to details, but of course if something is very obvious and makes the plot nonsensical, can ruin the movie for me.

 

[FallsPioneer]

Like for instance, I don't like violent movies that aren't based on a true story because I don't like the idea of senseless violence, and I don't like horror movies because I don't see the point of being frightened unnecessarily, but I would actually like to change my mentality about this. More entertainment = more fun. I need to be bombarded with lots of violent movies and horror movies. lol

You know, I agree with the bolded part of what you said. Except...well, here's the thing. Usually if I'm asked about fears, I'll say being buried alive or bees or something, which is correct. But the truth is, and I hardly ever tell anybody this, is that I'm insanely afraid of horror movies. I can't remember the last time I've seen a scary movie, and I don't care, I hate it way too much, and when previews for these movies come on in theaters I try to look to the side slightly. Horror movies, horror video games, horror books, I can't stand any of it, I get way too scared. Especially with sudden spooks. Some people give me a hard time for this (by scaring me) and I HATE it.

I seriously tip my non-existent hat to you if you can watch that stuff.

 

[Jwill]

Well, as a fellow INTJ, I can definitely understand where you're coming from. From a very early age, I was a huge movie critic. Every time I went to see a movie, I would sit there and think, "Wow, this is really predictable. How can people stand this crap?" And made for TV movies from Hallmark and the Disney channel--don't get me started. For me, everything had to make logical sense. If there were plot holes, I would fixate on them. Like you, I am very hard to impress. I hated artfully overdone things--things that I knew were in the movie simply to make the audience go "oh, wow."

In the last four or five years, I've made a lot of headway in moving beyond my extreme views of movies. Maybe I've mellowed out. Or maybe it's just my IN taking over a bit. I've always loved a good story, and I prefer for them to make sense (NT), but, first and foremost, I enjoy a good idea (IN). My intuition is really strong. Anyway, I've learned to just take a deep breath and glaze over the bad details. I like the general story.

For example, I have read the Twilight series. It's an awful, awful series. Poorly written with often brain-dead characters and dialogue. However, I really like the idea of the story. I like the whole vampire, living forever, not having to sleep (I'm an insomniac) thing. The general story isn't bad (mostly), so I can tolerate reading it. I can mostly manage not to critique it.

The same goes for the movies I watch. I'm a huge movie buff, and I LOVE going to the movies. I've found that being less of a critic has been much more liberating. No longer am I teased mercilessly for tearing movie after movie apart. INTJs, I think, hate being teased (especially when we're quite serious about a topic). People were always saying during the car ride home from the movies, "Oh, no. Here she goes again on another rant!"

Anyway, this isn't meant to be a post telling anyone to "take things easy" when it comes to movies. I hate when people tell me to "take things easy," to "stop and smell the roses," or "chill out." There's nothing wrong per se with taking a passionate opinion. I certainly would never take things easy when it comes to reality TV, for example (I LOATH reality TV). I just think that I got sick of nitpicking something that I was always viewing. I saw it for its artistic value and not for its entertainment and social value. As my E and F sides developed more and more, I began to see the importance of those things. I don't feel that I'm dumbing myself down to occasionally enjoy an insane or sub-par movie.

Sometimes, now, I find myself rewatching things that I initially hated (like Elf) and really loving them the second time around. That's a strange experience for me as a J. Of course, I still think The Santa Clause 2 was a completely terrible movie... I do have some standards!

PS Oh, and I LOVE horror, just as long as it's not slasher horror. Gore doesn't really get me going, but scary stuff does.

 

[Moiety]

You spoke of knowing how the movie is going to end, beforehand. Well, maybe the key is not going to watch a movie simply to know what happens next. That's not the only draw. Character interaction, funny and sad moments, photography etc ... the ride is supposed to be enjoyable. Doesn't meant you have to like it of course...

As for plotholes the key is to learn to appreciate what's well done. Using the LOTR example, maybe the point of the story was that "evil" is often too arrogant to properly prepare for what "good" as in store. LOTR is also about the triumph of the Hobbit's naivety over all the other mighty races.

 

[NewEra]

About once a year I go to the movies with someone. But if I am going to watch something that is more already familiar to me.
But here things start to complicate.

Since we got there by car I can already know about how long movie lasts since I know condicions how and where car is parked.
Since I am interested in this I already know about what it is about and who is playing who. Also I know how it is going to end since almost all moves have happy endings or somethings stays a little bit unsolved so that they can make another one.

So when I actually sit in my chair I have in a way already seen a movie I want to watch. Also it is not hard to reconstruct even the details some 10 minutes ahead.
Also because of my abstract world in which I am every day (in my head) makes me extremly hard to impress. It has happen to me that I am so bored that instead of watching in the screen I am studing a impact of scenes on people around me.

I am curious about others, does this kinds of things happen to you to?

Are you psychic?

 

[simulatedworld]

I mean, really. Think of it in terms of life insurance: Would you really waste money on a policy to cover yourself for being beheaded by someone? Yes, if you lose your head, you're dead, so the outcome is dire; but the odds are SO ridiculous that it's just not worth the investment. You'd sooner win Powerball with one ticket.

Thank you for disproving Pascal's Wager in one paragraph. More wise words from Ms. Jennifer

 

[Virtual ghost]

You spoke of knowing how the movie is going to end, beforehand. Well, maybe the key is not going to watch a movie simply to know what happens next. That's not the only draw. Character interaction, funny and sad moments, photography etc ... the ride is supposed to be enjoyable. Doesn't meant you have to like it of course...

As for plotholes the key is to learn to appreciate what's well done. Using the LOTR example, maybe the point of the story was that "evil" is often too arrogant to properly prepare for what "good" as in store. LOTR is also about the triumph of the Hobbit's naivety over all the other mighty races.

Well, the thing is that you and I are very different people.
Logical inconsistenty is something I can't overlook. (in most cases)
To tell you one more truth I think that triumph of naivety and everything that comes with it in so many movies, is not something that should be admired that much.
Always when I am watching a movie I think about how it efects other people.
I think that movies provides wrong picture of reality.
I am not talking about facts I am talking about principles.


You can't deny that there is plenty of movies that function on love vs. logic principle. Because of this impassionate calculation can look like sin.
What is not good if you ask me.

This is one of the main reasons why I have opened this thread.

Are you psychic?

No I am not.
What I find interesting is that S people here and in real life are asking me similar questions.
I think that this is just direct manifestation of mine reasoning skills.

 

[Xander]

The finishing move...

Why go to the movies if it's not fun?

(Oh and I used to be similar until I hear a comment my father made and it's hounded me ever since, "There's nothing so boring as someone who says everything is boring". Sometimes you have to play the game to see why other people play it.. and that means playing the game internally too and not sitting there second guessing it or trying to analyse it into little bitty pieces.)

 

[BlackCat]

When I see a movie I usually try to predict how it ends. Most of the time I'm right, but I keep watching anyway to see if I was. I consider it a good movie if the film is good storywise etc, and if the ending isn't how I predicted it.