[SJ] Liberal SJs

[swordpath]

I'm moderate, more right wing though.

 

[Camelopardalis]

Well... The only SJ whom I know personally is my mother, who is an ISFJ. She's really conservative and hates it when I question what she has always accepted as true (she gets very defensive as well and 'lives for the moment'). When I analyze and 'break down' tradition as my little INTJ habit, she would tell me to respect it and she well... hates Gays. I'd say she's a rightist, but I've never really asked her. I'm a moderate swinging left. Wait. In fact, I think I might be fully in the lefty camp now. The last time I took the test was months ago.

 

[pure_mercury]

I am an ESFJ male, and I am a pretty ideological libertarian. I am open-minded about things by nature. Parts of my personality go very much against the grain, but I am also rather orthodox in some arenas.

 

[celesul]

So an SJ is more about status quo or anti-status quo than something different from either?

I have been trying to figure out my dad, I think he is an ISTJ, weakish S, but he votes democrat, although he'd vote for libertarians if he thought they'd get elected. He's anti-status quo in many ways, anti-religion, and not open to people with different view points at all. A nightmare to argue with. But anyway, so liberal SJ's exist more than descriptions say? I suppose it does make sense to him though, his mom's views on many of these subjects are similar. (he had the fortune of having a liberal ISTP mom, and a more conservative xSFJ dad. So being a T put him closer to his mom).

Is an SJ more likely to form their view points, then look for information to support it? While a P is the opposite?

 

[pure_mercury]

So an SJ is more about status quo or anti-status quo than something different from either?

I have been trying to figure out my dad, I think he is an ISTJ, weakish S, but he votes democrat, although he'd vote for libertarians if he thought they'd get elected. He's anti-status quo in many ways, anti-religion, and not open to people with different view points at all. A nightmare to argue with. But anyway, so liberal SJ's exist more than descriptions say? I suppose it does make sense to him though, his mom's views on many of these subjects are similar. (he had the fortune of having a liberal ISTP mom, and a more conservative xSFJ dad. So being a T put him closer to his mom).

Is an SJ more likely to form their view points, then look for information to support it? While a P is the opposite?

When I was first exposed to libertarian thought, it was a revelation to me because it seemed to reinforce how I thought the world should be (basically free in all regards, with a very clear set of rules about what the government should do and what is a crime vs. what is simply a different choice). I put a primacy on treating everyone as an individual, and I believe that it is important to push oneself to maximize your natural talents. So it was a natural fit for me. ESFJs may be worriers and scolds, but (at least, I feel) we're not big on forcing people to do things, or not to do them. I am big on persuasion through words, especially appeals to logic. Unfortunately, I could see nanny-state liberalism or pleasure-hating cultural conservatism appealing to an ESFJ who thinks that it's more important to take care of people than it is to make sure they are free.

 

[GZA]

Both of my parents are SJ, and generally liberal (liberal for federal government, conservative for municipal, liberal in general).

Both of my parents seem to say all the liberal things (in terms of the real liberal ideas of people being able to do what they want) and beleive them, yet they still contradict them without realizing it. For example, if you ask my dad (ESTJ) what he thinks about rights he'll probably say everyone should have the right to do what they want, and he does think that, but then when someone (even his own children ) does soemthing unorthodox he'll notice and point it out. When he found out I frequently go running at midnight (he found it very strange) he looked at me very strangely and made me feel like a frea for like ten seconds. Same deal with my habit of making traditionally dinner dishes for breakfast. My mom (ISFJ) is the same. Although they beleive in the freedom everyone inherently has, they still have socialized ideas of how people should behave and react when something goes outside these ideas. My mom's side of the family is especially like this. They are very much the quintessential SJ family, really.

As someone said, I think it's really lifestyle that is conservative rather than politics. My dad has a very SJ lifestyle -golfing and fine wine, and some SJish values (like thinking anyone exposing their body must have issues ). They also have very superstituos socialized beleifs that don't always seem based in reality, but rather social mores, like that there must be murderers out at night (in a quiet suburban neighborhood like mine there is NO ONE out at night). My mom is the same, possibly more so.

 

[Thursday]

What is true for a group may not be true for any given individual in that group.

you mean like personality typing ?
thats just crazy talk !

and very intelligent

 

[oasispaw]

My ISFJ husband is liberal. The SJ comes out in his tendency to adhere to what's practical ("let's nominate someone electable" vs my own INFJ "let's nominate someone who's principles are X,Y,Z").

I do that too. I think it annoys my non-SJ friends.

me too.

when SJ's are described as "conservative" it is usually more in the lifestyle sense (Likes to keep things the same, takes fewer chances, etc.) rather than politically conservative. i would expect SJ's to be more likely to go along with an extablished political view, though so many people do so already that it is very hard to tell if that actually works in any amount.

i totally hear snape's voice when i read your posts. damn!



i'm liberal compared to my family but not compared to my community. i live in portland, afterall. i think i'm more a moderate on the portland scale.

 

[ehastin1]

I'm ISFJ and i'm pretty liberal for the most part. I like some views of conservatism though. I'm pretty open-minded to new things though. so if i'm talking politics with a friend i always listen to what they say to try and see if that view is something i agree with and it helps me expand my own beliefs and views. and that goes for more than just politics

 

[Jack Flak]

It seems as if SJs all vote on an opinion, and stick to it. These days the most common view in America is liberal, so they're all liberal.

 

[Little Linguist]

I think it depends on what you consider conservative or liberal. For example, there are economic conservatives/liberals, social conservatives/liberals, etc.

Personally, my philosophy is not completely conservative or liberal.

Furthermore, some people would consider it very liberal to adhere to certain ideals - some would consider it conservative.

I like to take things on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Jack Flak]

I think it depends on what you consider conservative or liberal. For example, there are economic conservatives/liberals, social conservatives/liberals, etc.

Personally, my philosophy is not completely conservative or liberal.

Furthermore, some people would consider it very liberal to adhere to certain ideals - some would consider it conservative.

I like to take things on a case-by-case basis.

My take was most people meant Democrat-like. I did, anyway.

 

[Little Linguist]

My take was most people meant Democrat-like. I did, anyway.

I'm not an SPD freak, if that is what you mean. Also not a CDU freak. Actually there is hardly any party I like...they are all weird and all make promises they cannot/do not intend to keep.

 

[pure_mercury]

I'm not an SPD freak, if that is what you mean. Also not a CDU freak. Actually there is hardly any party I like...they are all weird and all make promises they cannot/do not intend to keep.

I kinda dig the Free Democrats for Germany.

 

[Little Linguist]

I kinda dig the Free Democrats for Germany.

Yes, okay, but they have some pretty weird ideas, too. Have to admit I like the thing with lower taxes, though. Paying 50% taxes really blows.

 

[EJCC]

Every SJ I know is a liberal. At least, socially so. I could see them leaning to the right economically. I think the social leftism comes from the SJ focus on justice and fairness. WE WANT EQUALITY! Of course, I could be horrifically wrong. I don't know enough SJs.

 

[Giggly]

I am a conservative SJ.

 

[Sniffles]

What exactly do you mean by Liberals? Much of what we consider "conservatives" in America could acurately be termed Classical Liberals while "liberals" are Social Democrats.

There's also the difference between Conservative(as in principles) and conservative(as in general instinct). Same with Liberal and liberal.

When I think of a "Conservative", I have in mind men like Edmund Burke, Joesph de Maistre, John Calhoun, Russell Kirk, etc.

In many ways I could be considered a Revolutionary Conservative; although I have reservations about the term.

 

[EJCC]

What exactly do you mean by Liberals? Much of what we consider "conservatives" in America could acurately be termed Classical Liberals while "liberals" are Social Democrats.

There's also the difference between Conservative(as in principles) and conservative(as in general instinct). Same with Liberal and liberal.

When I think of a "Conservative", I have in mind men like Edmund Burke, Joesph de Maistre, John Calhoun, Russell Kirk, etc.

In many ways I could be considered a Revolutionary Conservative; although I have reservations about the term.

You, sir, are a NERD. But in a good way. I may be a liberal democrat, but I have huge respect for conservatives like Eisenhower.

When I say liberal and conservative, I usually mean socially. E.g. liberals support gay rights and a woman's right to choose. Not sure about what the creator of this forum meant, though.

 

[ShinyRoo]

I'm a left-leaning centrist. I tend to vote Democrat and am registered as one. It is funny. All of the people that I know that are SJs are hard-core Republicans, although I do live in OC. That might be why.