[MBTI General] ISFPs/ENFPS

[KDude]

I know more than one ESFP (that I know of) who's waved me off with "You think too much!" I think I already said that in this thread. Point being though, there is a big difference.. and I'm not sure if it's merely I vs E.

 

[Southern Kross]

^ I used to be open to atheists until I've had a few insult me on dates for not being atheist. I had a religious guy insult me too (different religion, but still "Christian"), and grill me about my beliefs on a date. I realized I can't be with someone who does not respect my beliefs, and that is hard for other people when they don't share them. I guess I was wrong to think it would not be such a big deal. Being open-minded is sort of overrated in dating, IMO. It leaves you open to jerks & losers....I've realized it's not idealistic to have some basic standards, but realistic.

My, those are some cynical words of experience

I agree, though. I think its harder for many INFPs to compromise their beliefs when it comes to relationships. We are very tolerant of differences the rest of the time but in relationships we want a refuge to escape from the hard work of constantly adjusting and conceding to others. I can only get so close to someone when I have to hold back (what I consider to be) significant aspects of my personality for us to get along.

I find ESFPs & INFPs to be very different though. People say my ESFP sister & I are like night & day. I have a lot of ESFP friends and I don't really "relate" to them, even though I like them. I think once you have more than one letter change, someone will seem significantly different.

Same here. I rather enjoy the company of ESFPs but I don't usually feel we have a lot in common.

 

[Edgar]

IME I'm pretty similar to ENFP males in ways and pretty different in other ways. I feel a disconnect from ENFP females.

Yeah, that makes sense because a lot of ENFP males tend to be gay.

 

[KDude]

My, those are some cynical words of experience

I agree, though. I think its harder for many INFPs to compromise their beliefs when it comes to relationships. .

Personally I don't think of it as compromising so much as... I don't know what's a correct belief in the first place. Other than, like I said, something generally humanitarian. In which case, I could get along extremely well with some atheists, Buddhist, Wiccans, or whatever. In a way, my own beliefs are general anyways. They are anchored in Christian thought, but I never stopped there for myself, so I wouldn't with anyone else.

And to be honest, I dislike a lot more Christians than atheists so far. So that's also colored my experience.. It's stuff like that that led me to think the way I do. Shared beliefs could be misleading (or rather, in actuality, I share more beliefs with all kinds of people, on some other abstract level).

 

[Thalassa]

I don't see it as compromising either. I don't have these weird standards.

I mean I DO HAVE STANDARDS though. It's just that they're different.

 

[uumlau]

Ne indicates ENTPs and ENFP are more alike. I beg to differ. I think in action, in mannerisms, and in lifestyle, ENFPs are more likely to be comparable to ISFPs.

What do you think?

I think they can be very similar, much in the same vein that ISTPs can be mistaken for INTJs or INTPs.

ENFP: Ne, Fi, Te, Si
ISFP: Fi, Se, Ni, Te

Obviously, they have the Fi in common, which makes for a good deal of similarity, on its own.

The E vs I seems contradictory, but isn't hard to explain. Ne is extroverted about ideas/possibilities/options, not people. The conventional social notion of extroversion (Fe, Se), doesn't quite apply. Yet, the Se of the ISFP can be extroverted, when one feels comfortable letting it out, and Se is more obviously "people extroverted" than Ne, especially Fi+Se. So ENFPs are rather introverted extroverts. ISFPs can be rather extroverted introverts.

Finally, a big issue is that for ISxPs, the introverted artisans, tertiary Ni can be quite strong, indeed, so strong that they can easily think of themselves as "intuitive." This is not to say that they aren't intuitive, but rather that they just don't fall into the N type, because as strong as their intuition is, their Se is often just as strong or stronger. On top of that, Se itself can seem rather "intuitive" in a conventional sense, in that it can be perceptive enough to make immediate observations that cut to the heart of an issue.

So while they are not temperamentally the same, they can seem very similar. Accurate typing depends upon a good understanding of the cognitive differences, because the behavioral similarities will obfuscate matters.

 

[Southern Kross]

Personally I don't think of it as compromising so much as... I don't know what's a correct belief in the first place. Other than, like I said, something generally humanitarian. In which case, I could get along extremely well with some atheists, Buddhist, Wiccans, or whatever. In a way, my own beliefs are general anyways. They are anchored in Christian thought, but I never stopped there for myself, so I wouldn't with anyone else.

And to be honest, I dislike a lot more Christians than atheists so far. So that's also colored my experience.. It's stuff like that that led me to think the way I do. Shared beliefs could be misleading (or rather, in actuality, I share more beliefs with all kinds of people, on some other abstract level).

Yeah, I don't think 'compromise' is the right word for what I was trying to describe.

I have no trouble being friends with people of different beliefs. In fact I am more open and accepting of difference than almost everyone I know. However, in such situations I am usually doing most of the accepting and bending myself to fit them without the same level of effort in return. This isn't so much of a problem in everyday life but when it comes to a close relationship I don't want to have to constantly watch what I say and do for fear of causing unease or conflict and frankly wouldn't want another to feel they had to do the same for me. And there are simply some differences that I seriously struggle to overcome because they clash with something that is deeply significant to who I am: political views are one of them. I imagine if religious beliefs are very central to someone, this too could be a barrier.

I agree with what you said about how shared beliefs can be misleading. I am an agnostic atheist and am often repelled by the attitudes of many atheists. I don't necessarily define 'shared beliefs' along such straight-forward categories. I usually look at the deeper and broader approach to life, morality etc. Categories of beliefs (political camps, religious affiliation etc) can be useful short hand for understanding where someone is coming from but really it comes down to their approach to life. I have a deeply religious ISFP friend with whom I feel very relaxed around, even when discussing religion because we are on the same page as people. On the other hand I often struggle with people with moderate to strong conservative political views because I see it as indicative of a inherent difference in values (or at least a strong difference in how we prioritize our values).

 

[Thalassa]

Yeah, I don't think 'compromise' is the right word for what I was trying to describe.

I have no trouble being friends with people of different beliefs. In fact I am more open and accepting of difference than almost everyone I know. However, in such situations I am usually doing most of the accepting and bending myself to fit them without the same effort in return. This isn't so much of a problem in everyday life but when it comes to a close relationship I don't want to have to constantly watch what I say and do for fear of causing unease or conflict and frankly wouldn't want another to feel they had to do the same for me. And there are simply some differences that I seriously struggle to overcome because they clash with something that is deeply significant to who I am: political views are one of them. I imagine if religious beliefs are very central to someone, this too could be a barrier.

A bit of conflict, some discussion or even intelligent arguing is something that I don't mind a bit, even in a romantic relationship because I can deal with the differences and as long as the person isn't actively trying to 'cage me' in some way then I don't mind the difference of opinion, honestly. Actually, I sort of like it that way as long as it's not too extreme. I don't need someone to be exactly like me as long as there are *certain important things that we share*, and to me those things are typically more personal.

I agree with what you said about shared beliefs can be misleading. I am an agnostic atheist and am often repelled by the attitudes of many atheists. I don't necessarily define 'shared beliefs' along such straight-forward categories. I usually look at the deeper and broader approach to life, morality etc. Categories of beliefs (political camps, religious affiliation etc) can be useful short hand for understanding where someone is coming from but really it comes down to fundamental values. I have a deeply religious ISFP friend with whom I feel very relaxed around, even when discussing religion because we are on the same page as people. On the other hand I struggle with people with moderate to strong conservative political views because I see it as indicative of a inherent difference in values (or at least a strong difference in how we prioritize our values).

I couldn't be with someone who was heavily into organized religion or someone who was deeply right wing conservative, so I agree with you here. There is a degree of difference that is uncomfortable or insurmountable, and for me those "differences" generally involve anyone who is too involved with institutions and overly organized forms of belief.

However, if their political or spiritual beliefs (or lack thereof) are moderately different than mine it's not a problem.

 

[Moiety]

I have no trouble being friends with people of different beliefs. In fact I am more open and accepting of difference than almost everyone I know. However, in such situations I am usually doing most of the accepting and bending myself to fit them without the same level of effort in return. This isn't so much of a problem in everyday life but when it comes to a close relationship I don't want to have to constantly watch what I say and do for fear of causing unease or conflict and frankly wouldn't want another to feel they had to do the same for me. And there are simply some differences that I seriously struggle to overcome because they clash with something that is deeply significant to who I am: political views are one of them. I imagine if religious beliefs are very central to someone, this too could be a barrier.

This is true for me too. I respect everyone's views. But if there is going to be intellectual intimacy, I think it's best if people have some common ground.

 

[Thalassa]

You know, I thought about this, and it might have something to do with the fact that I was primarily raised by my grandfather and his wife...and he was Republican and she is a registered Democrat. I remember him voting for Bush Sr. and her voting for Dukakis when I was a kid.

Also, I think the attraction to atheists and sometimes libertarians can be explained by an attraction to FREEDOM. As long as it's not one of those crazed "evangelical atheists" who go around trying to nastily convert everyone around them just like a religious person would...

 

[KDude]

It could just be a difference in my level of conviction. In a way, I've thrown so much out the window... at one point in time, I had more focus. Nowadays, I have a small "nucleus" of beliefs (which I'm pretty adamant about), but I'm unsure on a lot of specifics. A lot of things are up for discussion, so I enjoy just learning and finding similarities. I'm still looking for common ground, but it's just... kind of general. Not that I'm completely open-minded.

That said, I have the same weariness with ultra-conservatism as well. I couldn't have a relationship with anyone who made me feel like I was constantly impure somehow. And not just Christian. Believe it or not, I know at least one Buddhist who can be a bit suffocating too (albeit, more indirectly). Or it could not even be religious.. there are vegetarians who take it upon themselves to throw out people's food and force them to eat brussel sprout sandwiches. I think vegetarians are awesome, but that kind of zealotry is uncool.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I think being Se-aux, ISFPs are somewhat more intouch with the external in a way that can be associated with extroversion. Conversely, being Ne-dom, ENFPs can be out of touch in a way that's associated with introversion. This seems to make some ISFPs test E and ENFPs test I.

Also, ISFPs like a lot of the abstract, theoretical stuff that MBTI tests mention, probably as a result of Fi & Ni, and Se tends to like new stuff as much as Ne, maybe more for the experience it provides than the ideas it inspires though.

One of my ISFP friends tests ENFP, despite not acting/talking like he's coming from a NeFi mindset at all. On paper, he sounds similar to an ENFP based on his interests & social life, but in reality, he displays the ISFP functions.

Completely agreed! Since this topic was originally posted, I have since met a couple more ENFP's whom I originally thought were ISFP's like me.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I have yet to know an "aggressive" ISFP in real life.

Ooooh, I have. I have been myself, and have known other ISFP's to become quite aggressive as well. When Fi is hurt, intruded on, run all over... it can surely lash out in the heat of the moment. However, we'll typically feel bad about this later.