[ISFP] ISFP and Goals

[Quinlan]

In any case, I just can't understand anyone not wanting to better themselves and their standing in life.

Not that I disagree, but doesn't that imply that me and my standing in life are a bit crap as they are?

 

[phinny5608]

Not that I disagree, but doesn't that imply that me and my standing in life are a bit crap as they are?

Nah, not necessarily. You can love your life as it is and still want to improve in some way. It could be becoming better at some skill you already have in spades, a simple pay-raise at a job you already enjoy, adding a garden to a house you already like. To be fair though, I guess it's possible that someone could genuinely be exactly where they want to be and who they want to be (and believably so). But there's a very obvious difference between that and just settling for less. At least I think so.

 

[Quinlan]

Nah, not necessarily. You can love your life as it is and still want to improve in some way. It could be becoming better at some skill you already have in spades, a simple pay-raise at a job you already enjoy, adding a garden to a house you already like. To be fair though, I guess it's possible that someone could genuinely be exactly where they want to be and who they want to be (and believably so). But there's a very obvious difference between that and just settling for less. At least I think so.

I think sometimes we swing to far towards the goal setting and forget to enjoy what we have as they are.

Have you ever seen an australian movie called The Castle?

The main character Darryl Kerrigan sets a good example of enjoying things as they are.

 

[Julie1962]

29? Does she want kids? If so, with her biological clock ticking her goals maybe: 1. get married to man that LOVES me for who I am and 2. Have babies before it's too late.

What is she doing now? Working? Going to school PT? Can you accept someone who doesn't strive to achieve career goals but may have relationship goals? ISFPs LOVE kids and we love the security of family. When I met my husband I was a secretary and was going to college part time. My goals where the same as above. Yeah .. not too exciting but I am who I am. Only now, during midlife, have I returned to finish my college education and enter a career in the counseling field, or teaching field, or maybe I'll just be a student the rest of my life .. get PhD by the time I'm 65. : )

Good luck with your decision. I hope you can sit quiet and listen to your heart and not think things through so much. But if you can't accept that she might not strive as high as you are doing, I would look for someone more J. We don't like to be bossed around, judged, and pushed too hard. And if she is anything like me she won't show her stubborn or assertive side until the ring is on the finger!

 

[Snow of the North]

Hmm, now I may the exact opposite as you (ENFP), but I'll give forth my best ideas. So, you're worried she has no real goals and that doesn't sound like optimal marriage material for you... well has she given you any definite sign she wants to be lazy and not pursue any kind of career? Or is it a career you feel won't earn her much in life? Is she working fast food or as a cashier somewhere and that doesn't bother her but it does you? Or is she just jobless and out of school and not in any hurry to push forth? I feel if she is at least earning SOME money you shouldn't fall too hard off of you're chair yet.

Maybe if you just slowly start doing little thing to encourage her? Do you have any idea what she may eventually want to strive for? Ever asked her what kind of career she would dream of being in? Now, if she's a person who dreams of not being any kind of career, then you've lost me in the help department, Still if there is love, I'd try to be as supportive of her as I could. Support from others helps me get where I'm going. (but then again, that's me.)

 

[IZthe411]

29? Does she want kids? If so, with her biological clock ticking her goals maybe: 1. get married to man that LOVES me for who I am and 2. Have babies before it's too late.

What is she doing now? Working? Going to school PT? Can you accept someone who doesn't strive to achieve career goals but may have relationship goals? ISFPs LOVE kids and we love the security of family. When I met my husband I was a secretary and was going to college part time. My goals where the same as above. Yeah .. not too exciting but I am who I am. Only now, during midlife, have I returned to finish my college education and enter a career in the counseling field, or teaching field, or maybe I'll just be a student the rest of my life .. get PhD by the time I'm 65. : )

Good luck with your decision. I hope you can sit quiet and listen to your heart and not think things through so much. But if you can't accept that she might not strive as high as you are doing, I would look for someone more J. We don't like to be bossed around, judged, and pushed too hard. And if she is anything like me she won't show her stubborn or assertive side until the ring is on the finger!

It's not about climbing the corporate ladder. I don't need a woman who is in corporate America. She does work. I was talking about things outside of work, really.

But this comment here probably has impacted me the most. If she wants kids and a family, that's fine. If that's your goal, that's fine. But again, I want to hear it. The more I think about it, she may be thinking that those are a given in a relationship. But I'm not a mind reader, either.

I just want someone who knows what they want and have put some thought into it. If all you can come up with is you want to be happy, with no substance around what happiness entails, it doesn't leave me feeling all warm and fuzzy.

Thanks.

What did you mean by this line: And if she is anything like me she won't show her stubborn or assertive side until the ring is on the finger!?

 

[IZthe411]

Hmm, now I may the exact opposite as you (ENFP), but I'll give forth my best ideas. So, you're worried she has no real goals and that doesn't sound like optimal marriage material for you... well has she given you any definite sign she wants to be lazy and not pursue any kind of career? Or is it a career you feel won't earn her much in life? Is she working fast food or as a cashier somewhere and that doesn't bother her but it does you? Or is she just jobless and out of school and not in any hurry to push forth? I feel if she is at least earning SOME money you shouldn't fall too hard off of you're chair yet.

Maybe if you just slowly start doing little thing to encourage her? Do you have any idea what she may eventually want to strive for? Ever asked her what kind of career she would dream of being in? Now, if she's a person who dreams of not being any kind of career, then you've lost me in the help department, Still if there is love, I'd try to be as supportive of her as I could. Support from others helps me get where I'm going. (but then again, that's me.)

This was good stuff too....It's not about money or earning potential, but as a union there are two people working towards a common life- I am interested in where she sees she will add value.

I don't expect that my wife will do all the housework if she works fulltime. But if she works part time or not at all, I do expect the house to look a certain way at all times, and food should be cooked. I hate eating out unnecesssarily and if she's not doing that, what is she doing?

 

[sunshinebrighter]

But this comment here probably has impacted me the most. If she wants kids and a family, that's fine. If that's your goal, that's fine. But again, I want to hear it. The more I think about it, she may be thinking that those are a given in a relationship. But I'm not a mind reader, either.

I think she doesn't want to tell you that she has strong goals because she wants to be flexible. She may not want to you to feel obligated to sacrifice part of your goals to help achieve hers in a marriage.

It is obvious that she has not found anything to strive for and whatever goals she has right now will change in a week. Long term planning and finishing projects is not an ISFP's strong point. We LOVE flexibility!!!! We don't want to plan everything out.

Whenever anyone ever ask me what are my goals I always say "To have a roof over my head, clothes on my back and food on the table. Plus being happy." It is really that simple!

I think if you believe that goals are important in a marriage this girl is not for you. If you want someone who is not shy about what she wants this girl is not for you.

 

[IZthe411]

I think she doesn't want to tell you that she has strong goals because she wants to be flexible. She may not want to you to feel obligated to sacrifice part of your goals to help achieve hers in a marriage.

It is obvious that she has not found anything to strive for and whatever goals she has right now will change in a week. Long term planning and finishing projects is not an ISFP's strong point. We LOVE flexibility!!!! We don't want to plan everything out.

Whenever anyone ever ask me what are my goals I always say "To have a roof over my head, clothes on my back and food on the table. Plus being happy." It is really that simple!

I think if you believe that goals are important in a marriage this girl is not for you. If you want someone who is not shy about what she wants this girl is not for you.

What I have bolded is a goal!!! If she would say that I'd be more at ease, and less worried about the specifics. The happy statement would even mean less! LOL

I guess I have to understand all the hype behind this flexibility LOL. I can understand it in somethings, but not ALL things!

Now you raised an interesting point- ISFPs not wanting to infringe on others their preferences or opinions.....Don't you wind up getting hurt if you don't speak up or assertively?

 

[sunshinebrighter]

Now you raised an interesting point- ISFPs not wanting to infringe on others their preferences or opinions.....Don't you wind up getting hurt if you don't speak up or assertively?

Heck yeah. I had to learn how to be assertive. Most of the time I'm perfectly happy to go along with whatever the people around me want to do. But once in a while I went along with things that I was uncomfortable with. It was unhealthy.

It is really hard to tell whether your girlfriend is hiding her goals from you or she really has none. Her not being clear on it is a bad sign. It means she is not totally comfortable with you. You may need to drop the subject and build her trust that you will not be imposing your views on how she should go about her life.

It's hard to crack an ISFP. We are just too sensitive and shy.

 

[Quinlan]

ISFPs might want to be flexible so when the shit inevitably hits the fan we can glide right past and shrug it off.

 

[wolfy]

ISFPs might want to be flexible so when the shit inevitably hits the fan we can glide right past and shrug it off.

Always an important factor to keep in mind.

 

[IZthe411]

Heck yeah. I had to learn how to be assertive. Most of the time I'm perfectly happy to go along with whatever the people around me want to do. But once in a while I went along with things that I was uncomfortable with. It was unhealthy.

It is really hard to tell whether your girlfriend is hiding her goals from you or she really has none. Her not being clear on it is a bad sign. It means she is not totally comfortable with you. You may need to drop the subject and build her trust that you will not be imposing your views on how she should go about her life.

It's hard to crack an ISFP. We are just too sensitive and shy.

We are a work in progress. We've had a wierd relationship thus far, but I don't think it's based on something that's impossible to address. It's work, and it's a lot of communicating.

I think with her it's more or the 'since it's clear or a given in my mind, there's no need to rehash it'. I try to tell her as a man, especially an ISTJ type- one who is very literal, that you cannot make assumptions about me or us and expect me to automatically be on the same page. And yes, when we first hooked up she came off as this tough girl, but I have grown to see, especially since now feelings are involved, she's ultra sensitive. It's been hard to accept and work with, especially since in my past I haven't had to deal wtih anyone with this type of sensitivity.

I see it as a good thing for both of us. For her, it's the first time she's dealt with someone so intense as me. We are balancing each other out.

 

[IZthe411]

ISFPs might want to be flexible so when the shit inevitably hits the fan we can glide right past and shrug it off.

I think all types have this ability- it depends on how invested you are in what's hitting the fan. I may not be as flexible- being a J, but if I am prepared enough the impact isn't as bad. I'll care but not as much.

 

[Quinlan]

I think all types have this ability- it depends on how invested you are in what's hitting the fan. I may not be as flexible- being a J, but if I am prepared enough the impact isn't as bad. I'll care but not as much.

You might be right, but that doesn't seem to have been my experience with Js, they sometimes seem to me less able/willing to adapt or accept changes or less than perfect outcomes.

For me I think I am more skilled at controlling my reactions to the external world rather than trying to control the external world itself. One of the joys (curses?) of being an internal judger I suppose.

 

[IZthe411]

You might be right, but that doesn't seem to have been my experience with Js, they sometimes seem to me less able/willing to adapt or accept changes or less than perfect outcomes.

For me I think I am more skilled at controlling my reactions to the external world rather than trying to control the external world itself.

From that viewpoint- you are right. My preference is to have someone do things my way over me adapting to their way. It's very subjective, though. I think with SJs, it's a comfort thing. The more familiar you are with the various options, the more flexible you will be.

 

[wolfy]

From that viewpoint- you are right. My preference is to have someone do things my way over me adapting to their way. It's very subjective, though. I think with SJs, it's a comfort thing. The more familiar you are with the various options, the more flexible you will be.

Trying to control the way something is done short circuits an SPs ability to improvise. To come up with tactics, to stamp themselves on the task. Doing something the same way all the time is as comfortable as a straitjacket. SP are more comfortable with a direction, an objective, and a few milestones along the way.

 

[Quinlan]

It kinda takes the fun out of it if everything is laid out from the beginning. You have to make mistakes and play around and tinker as you go and see what works (thinking about it, that play around part sounds terrible in the case of marriage ).

 

[Giggly]

I see it as a good thing for both of us. For her, it's the first time she's dealt with someone so intense as me. We are balancing each other out.

How this pretty much works is, if she truly wants to be balanced, then things will work out fine. You could help her in this area but she has to want to be helped. The thing is though when people want to be balanced they will state it so I can understand your concern that she hasn't. If she doesn't want to be balanced, then you're just buying time. Same goes for you. I'm sure you need balancing too.

There is another option to balanced individuals though, and that is two people who compliments each other. It's like, where one person is weak the other is strong, and together, as a team, they have the spectrum covered. You defer to the other in the areas that they are stronger than you. This requires a higher level of trust, dependency, humility and cooperation. My guess is you don't want that though. It seems like you wish for her to be balanced, and you to be balanced and you two go through life together as balanced individuals.

 

[IZthe411]

Trying to control the way something is done short circuits an SPs ability to improvise. To come up with tactics, to stamp themselves on the task. Doing something the same way all the time is as comfortable as a straitjacket. SP are more comfortable with a direction, an objective, and a few milestones along the way.

That's fine, but I get a sick feeling when it seems that people are sitting on their butt and are kicked to action late in the game.