INTP/INFP?

[sartrecastic]

Okay, Hi. So I thought for a while that I was an INTP. But I now suspect that I am an INFP. The thing is I feel that I am naturally inclined towards INTPness, but I'm fairly sure I have long-running mental health issues that complicate things. When answering tests I get stuck on the questions that distinguish between logic and emotions, because (firstly) for me they tend to swap around, mix up and be subordinated to each other at different moments.

For example a while ago I became fixated with suicide, and although it may have been at root some kind of emotional problem, whatever happened I turned into a logical puzzle, just as I had done for years previously. Growing up I used to think about abstractions and theories and things I didn't even really have a hope of understanding at the time (when I was 10 I had this obsession with A Brief History of Time, and basically spent most of my time up until I was around 14 or 15 in -thought- about -theory- rather than in -turmoil- about -life- - although "thought" and "turmoil" can sometimes be blurred together). Whenever I feel particularly "emotional" it tends to be somehow disconnected from my logical mind, which continues to function completely outside of whatever emotions I'm feeling, unless it disappears completely. And at the same time when I'm in my element, which is definitely the realm of logic, that's certainly where I prefer to stay. It seems as if nowadays my emotions have taken over - I used to have obsessive thoughts about, for example, whether God existed or, bizarrely, whether circles could exist in physical space, but now I have obsessive thoughts about how socially useless I am, which don't go anywhere like logical thinking does. But when that "part" of me does not intrude, I'm definitely more of a thinker.

At the same time I have that "moral principle", idealistic streak that INFPs are supposed to have. (Though I think ethics are a great illustration of this relationship between logic and emotions - one should attempt to make moral principles as logically consistent as possible, which is partly why I enjoy debates about morality because the webs of reasoning are so interesting to explore. But at the same time ethical positions do exist with an essential kernel of subjectivity and feeling; there is no -purely- logical way of coming to ethical conclusions.) I tend to polemic on ethical/political subjects, I tend to err on the side of generosity to others (in terms of how well I see them). But I think this is only in theory. Real people I come across I'm quite critical of and impatient with if I find them intellectually tiresome. And this is an extremely new development for me. I never used to be particularly interested in morality. But as the opportunities for mathematical and logical thought have dried up (vagaries of education), and I've explored philosophical thought more, it's as if emotions and less purely intellectual-plaything-type subjects have had to be incorporated into my way of thinking.

... But I have that need to be clear about descriptions and language use that INTPs are supposed to have, which results in a tendency to run on (and on and on) particularly in debates. I am often accused of not giving the other person time to make their case because I'm too busy making mine as clear as possible, and interrupt as soon as the other person makes any kind of point or piece of reasoning I find erroneous. I am a pedant for logic and language. I'm not exactly a -grammar Nazi- but nothing infuriates me more than scattered, imprecise language. (I think one of the reasons I find it so difficult to express my emotions -when I have them- is their stubborn refusal to bend to the requirements of language: what happens is either a horrid mess of inchoate babbling nonsense if I speak my emotions while I am feeling them, or something rather elevated and poetic and universalised that perhaps loses its individual nature if I talk of emotions I -have- felt while I am not feeling them. I generally feel the need to rationalise my emotions - to myself or others, I am not sure - and make them fit into some kind of internally consistent world-view, so I think that's why I do that. And the fact that these days my feeling doesn't seem to be able to do that is what makes me seem like a stranger to myself, almost, and a broken person. A few years back my preferred rationalisation was a pretended superiority complex.)

I have a quite avoidant personality, low self-confidence (unless in an intellectual situation in which I can be quite sure of myself), and I think a slight social anxiety, which I don't show very much but definitely stresses me mentally. But when with people I know very well and trust I am very talkative. Blah. I don't even know where I'm going with this anymore. Help me out. Please.

Oh and if anyone recognises me from INTP central, uh, hi.

 

[Grungemouse]

How old are you, if you don't mind me asking? You sound like an adolescent INTP.

But then, the ethical/moral points throw me. I can't speak for other INTPs, but I don't hold much weight to morality when making a decision.

 

[sartrecastic]

I'm 18, nearly 19.

I don't know if moral principles intrude on my actual concrete decisions (That said how many decisions really have morality as a great feature? The biggest decisions I usually have to make are what to eat for lunch. And I hate making such decisions because there is really no good reason to choose one of any set of equally preferable options, and often I don't care); I think morality is more a part of a sort of speculative and non-real playground where I think about things and have my beliefs about the world. I'm not sure my beliefs about morality and politics and et cetera actually relate much to how I interact with the world. Although I remember when my sister was considering getting an abortion and my mum was dead against it that my abstract musings on the subject suddenly had an application, which turned out to be really simple; "it's none of my or your business". Which is pretty much what I think my practical ethics probably boils down to. Then all the nuanced debates about what personhood is and so on just disappear, don't they? Perhaps everything else is just born out of academic interest.

That said I don't interact with the world much anyway. So perhaps my perspective on myself is skewed or incomplete.

 

[BlackCat]

You sound like an INTP.

 

[Asterion]

You are probably an INTP, thinkers can feel, and they're not without morals. It is often the case that an F and a T will arrive at the same conclusion, only via differing paths. The only case you could make is that you are an enneagram 5 INFP, which is incredibly possible considering you have pointed out mostly E5 traits (need for competence, gathering knowledge extensively). It is believed that enneagram traits tend to kick in more when on the defense, so basically, when you're younger, you tend to rely on the enneagram more. You'll probably have to wait a bit, wait until your comfortable with everything. When you can relax and just be yourself, that's when you'll know exactly what type you are. In the meantime, it's quite a lot more likely that you're an INTP 5.

 

[Oom]

Heh, you sound like me, minus the suicide part. I have thought about it, but never considered doing it. All the talk about incoherent babbling when you speak about your emotions is true for me also. Also with the theorizing and social ineptitude that only lets up when you feel like your not being judged.

And +1 on the decision making. I dawdle around and can't make simple decisions because I can't come to the conclusion that one choice might end up being better than the other, or that I need to try new and different things.

I don't know my type either. We're in the same boat.

 

[OrangeAppled]

You sound like an INTP.

Agreed. I don't get the INFP vibe in your writing style.

 

[Hemogl0bin]

INTP with developed feeling side.

 

[paperoceans]

INTP

 

[simulatedworld]

So how big exactly would you say your INTPness is?

(For the record, I agree with INTP diagnosis.)

(Though I think ethics are a great illustration of this relationship between logic and emotions - one should attempt to make moral principles as logically consistent as possible, which is partly why I enjoy debates about morality because the webs of reasoning are so interesting to explore. But at the same time ethical positions do exist with an essential kernel of subjectivity and feeling; there is no -purely- logical way of coming to ethical conclusions.)

Your writing style is hilariously Ti. Come to think of it, so is your user name. (The fact that you'd even bother looking for a "-purely- logical way" of coming to ethical conclusions is in itself very INTP.)

What is happening here is that you simulate Fi (you do not exercise it directly) by reaching an Fi-style conclusion on the surface that's ultimately based on deeper Ti motivations. You recognize that ignoring ethics would be logically inconsistent in certain situations--but the root cause is still Ti.

This is how shadow functions work. Your Ji function briefly pretends to be the other Ji function, or so it seems to outsiders, but in actuality the natural function itself is still the most basic motivation.

Conversely, look at an INFP judge who, despite being morally opposed to causing pain, must judge people impersonally in order to dole out punishments because he recognizes that failure to use impersonal reasoning in this situation would result in a broader breach of ethics. He seems to be using Ti on the surface, but it's really just Fi donning a Ti mask for certain particular situations.

Heh, you sound like me, minus the suicide part. I have thought about it, but never considered doing it. All the talk about incoherent babbling when you speak about your emotions is true for me also. Also with the theorizing and social ineptitude that only lets up when you feel like your not being judged.

And +1 on the decision making. I dawdle around and can't make simple decisions because I can't come to the conclusion that one choice might end up being better than the other, or that I need to try new and different things.

I don't know my type either. We're in the same boat.

Despite the Holden (INFP) quote in your signature, you sound pretty INTP too. INFPs simply aren't this matter of fact and they don't give such a clinical/impersonal tone when they're analyzing things.

 

[Eric B]

You sound so much like me too (also minus the suicide fixation). Sounds like natural preference for Ti, but with Feeling that comes up from stress, apparently.
INTP and INFP are similar, because of the INP, so if they have strong F and T together, they sort of blend together. But the ultimate normal preference is what decides the type.

 

[StavsINTP]

So, I'm totally new here, but this post caught my eye because I used to have this same struggle myself. And for virtually the exact same reasons. But if you read more about INTP's, it really makes perfect sense. Because Feeling is the least developed function in an INTP, it tends to be all-or-nothing... consistent with a neurotic/depressed/mentally unstable tendency. I strongly recommend you read this webpage, in particular the section titled "Inferior Function: Extraverted Feeling." An INTP Profile This has helped me tremendously in understanding my own difficulty with emotions.

Some of the more salient points (for me at least) include: "It is interesting to observe that the external world of the INTP involves a very free-spirited Ne-Fe partnership, while the internal world is a very clinical detail-structure-analysis Ti-Si combination. Hence, the outward behaviour of an INTP can contrast strongly with his introspective world."

"The mystery of emotion is also evidence in the INTP's use of music. He always chooses to listen to music which suits his current emotional state, be it aggression, warmth, excitement, relaxation or whatever. Hence, the emotional state is assumed to be an unchangeable, mysterious property of himself. It is easier to choose appropriate music than to attempt to influence this."

"The feeling shadow is the fear centre of the INTP. He rarely fears any factual thing in the outside world, at least not things that will be encountered in normal day-to-day living... the greatest fears of an INTP are usually ideas generated within his own mind."

So it makes complete sense that an INTP would become suicidal--it's all in your head! As an INTP, I am in a constant state of logical analysis--but emotions do not yield well to logical analysis, at least not when you are the person feeling them.

Also, not sure if you are male or female, but I am a female, and I think this has something to do with my emotional struggle. I actually came across this website in searching for "female INTP" because I think the gender factor is very relevant. Females are generally more emotional than males, be it due to biology, evolution, culture, or any combination of factors. Either way, society is structured in such a way that a female is expected, if not required, to be more emotionally in-tune. Thus, for a female INTP, the deficiency of the feeling function simply has more repercussions than for the male INTP counterpart.

And so, after years of wrestling with the INTP/INFP dilemma, I have concluded that I am in fact a classic example of an INTP. It sounds like you are too.