[MBTI General] infp / entp relationship

[entropie]

I've got a huge problem ! I am circled by F-types and they wont stop picking on me. It even has come so far that my gf wants me to go to a psychologist to talk about my depressions ?!

But first things first: all similiarities in the following text to real world persons are explicitly wanted but totally random at the same time !

Do you generally think an infp / entp relationship would be appealing of any kind ? I mean they have virtually nothing in common: the one is Jeanne D'Arc the bookworm, who laughs her ass off when her cat plays with a huge fly but then in the end steps in to rescue the fly, commenting it with the words she doesnt like it when animals suffer. And the other is a loveable jerk, who is reactive to mood swings with a response time of 5 µs; who lives easily in 5 different worlds, tho always being constant about himself and what he wants, namely he wants that what the others dont want, which is in this sense not transferable on people cause with people he generally likes to be admired or hated, it's only important that the feeling is as strong as possible.

Isnt there like no classical connection or feeling which would make two kindred akin of that kind ? It maybe has something to do with the entp being really reactive to feelings and therefore maybe making it easier for the infp to life his / her own feelings, but then again if the entp isnt admired 24/7 this would be fail too and the subjective sometimes even pragmatical approach of the infp to rigourusly break a wounded animals neck without hesitation for the greater good, can frighten the eff out of entpeople.

Ok so far so good, I am feeling better.

There are nice things of course too, one for example the Ne-Ne connection of both and both finding it not necessarily important to do what society wants from them. A little sexual innuendo with style after a few beer in public in front of middle-class white citizen, in which the infp asks the entp if he can tell her about the friction the cock does when moving up and down in the engine cylinder and how only good lubrication can help eliviate the building tension the surface is experencing: is a classic !

But the entp is a worrier. Words like "What if" or "If I had done this, this and this would have happened" are second nature. This all works in an unchecked environment. While the infp clearly says dogs are bad and cats are good and this is to noone understandable except for the infp, the entp rather says well they both have their pros and cons, then speaks about them all for three and a half hour to draw the conclusion that he cant decide on one option right now. WARNING UPCOMING TANGENT: one may think the E and I difference between both is a problem, but thats not true. Entps aint that social beasts except they have missed something in their youth. The real E/I difference really lies in the infp living in a rational world that he judges by how he feels about it, while the entp is more in a defective irrationalö world of asumptions, the infp's Te needs to correct on a daily basis. The infp's Te tho isnt really stressed by that and easily develops better into an organized thinking way, while the entp's Fe learns to pout grande because the infp is always right.

But what happens when the entp's irrationality, untamed as she is, takes over ? Imagine we have an entp whose mother suffered from strong depressions and even went to a doctor with that. Her son will needlessly to say, take on some of her attitudes aswell. When then an untamed assumptive master of connecting the impossible speaks his mind and all he gets as an answer is the assertive Te answer which is: "close your mouth or a fly flies in it", depressive earthquakes are imminent.

Well in conversation I found out about this habit of mine now. And I hope I can manage to deal with it. I am not depressive, on the contrary I am really happy with how my life is processing atm, but my gf is right, I need to enjoy myself more. As she would say: "Getting a real emotion from you, which is not reflected from myself, is like rolling a ten ton stone down a mountain: at the beginning it takes hours to get it moving and is nearly impossible, but then at the bottom of the mountain run for your life !" And she likes running for her life .

So whats your take on a relationship like this ? Be as cold-neck-break-wounded-animal as possible ? What are the chances you see, what are the dangers ? Do you think the movie will have a happy ending or will the main actor die ? Do you think the big-boobed dumb super model will eat the strawberry or not ?

I am acronarcotingly agently looking forward to your thoughts !

*tips hat*

 

[Udog]

Do you generally think an infp / entp relationship would be appealing of any kind ?

Do you mean specifically romance, or is friendship part of "any kind"? My friendships with various ENTPs have been some of the most positive and constructive ones I've had in my life. We constantly provide each other with new ways to look at things.

Romantically, I've had ENTP crushes, especially in college, but she was taken so I didn't get to explore it. I have concerns when it comes to a long term romance with ENTPs, but that wouldn't stop me if there was a chance that she was the gal for me.

Isnt there like no classical connection or feeling which would make two kindred akin of that kind ?

If the ENTP believes in the idea of kindred spirits, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible. I suspect the INFP and ENTP's idea of kindred spirits can be quite different, but if the two types can figure out how they overlap, embrace the similar elements while exploring the differences, I don't see why it couldn't work. In fact, it could be richly rewarding.

There are nice things of course too, one for example the Ne-Ne connection of both and both finding it not necessarily important to do what society wants from them. A little sexual innuendo with style after a few beer in public in front of middle-class white citizen, in which the infp asks the entp if he can tell her about the friction the cock does when moving up and down in the engine cylinder and how only good lubrication can help eliviate the building tension the surface is experencing: is a classic !

Hah! You guys really are suckers for the sexual innuendo. *tsk tsk*

But what happens when the entp's irrationality, untamed as she is, takes over ? Imagine we have an entp whose mother suffered from strong depressions and even went to a doctor with that. Her son will needlessly to say, take on some of her attitudes aswell. When then an untamed assumptive master of connecting the impossible speaks his mind and all he gets as an answer is the assertive Te answer which is: "close your mouth or a fly flies in it", depressive earthquakes are imminent.

I think this is more of a human issue than a type one. When an INFP accepts you, they accept YOU. Flaws and all. We are very good at seeing how the "flaws" are just paint strokes in a larger portrait.

As she would say: "Getting a real emotion from you, which is not reflected from myself, is like rolling a ten ton stone down a mountain: at the beginning it takes hours to get it moving and is nearly impossible, but then at the bottom of the mountain run for your life !" And she likes running for her life .

This could be an area of concern, if the INFP can't accept an ENTP's emotion as "real", because they don't conform to how an INFP feels. Or if the ENTP feels smothered or freaked out by the INFP's emotion. However, it sounds like you got this area covered. So to speak.

So whats your take on a relationship like this ? Be as cold-neck-break-wounded-animal as possible ?

Not unless you want an INFP that's wanting to rescue you out of pity. Be strong, but CHOOSE to show her your vulnerabilities. Expression of vulnerability should be purposeful, in my opinion.

What are the chances you see, what are the dangers ? Do you think the movie will have a happy ending or will the main actor die ? Do you think the big-boobed dumb super model will eat the strawberry or not ?

It really boils down to this, especially from the INFP's perspective.

Are you a better person with her in your life?
Is she a better person with you in her life?

As long as both of you say yes, I foresee you having a happily ever after (or at least, as close to it as we get in this world).

 

[Thessaly]

Hate sex.

That's the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of ENTPs, because I am so friggen attracted to them, but they make me suffer moral indignation constantly.

I've come to the conclusion that if you have dynamite chemistry with someone the sex will keep you together long enough to figure out what you have in common and like in each other and then you stay even longer.

I know you say ENTPs and INFPs have nothing in common, but that is far from truth. We're both HIGHLY imaginative. We both stick to our guns (Fi & Ti). Some of the best yelling matches I have had are with ENTPs. Almost immediately we reconcile and go on with our lives. That means we deal with our crap and communicate well and have a perspective (Ne) that allows us to be chill about our wars and differences.

It's good shit. I approve. Just be loyal and considerate.

 

[entropie]

Thank you for your thoughts .

 

[Sentient Light]

Almost everything you said confirmed that my ENTP friend and I have genuine chemistry.

Compatibility, that is not the word here.
You have a passion storm.

I wonder what will happen..
That's the intoxicating part.

True, our EXTREME different ways of seeing reality can be well.. stressful.
We can understand one another, but I personally struggle to communicate.

I love being stuck in a loop. I really believe this is what love is supposed to be like.
However, I feel like I am falling apart bit by bit sometimes too.
I'm consumed by desire, and somehow this feels unhealthy..
I can't break free either, because we're in this together..
Feels like a silent relationship.
That silence hurts because even introverts need to talk..
More and more, though, I become rationally domineering.
He becomes more emotional.
Strange.
Yet his Fe is something foreign to me.. so I can learn from him as he learns from himself.
While he can learn from my Te while I learn from myself.

I hope for an eventual soft gentle place we can both reach, where comfort and communication are perfect.

 

[sulfit]

I am acronarcotingly agently looking forward to your thoughts !

*tips hat*

From what I've seen it's love-hate alright, like Thessaly described.

The problem is that ENTP-INFP match is described as Relations of Supervision in which INFP functions as a supervisor to ENTP. This is because INFP's strongest function, Fi, falls on ENTP's weakest spot in the psyche. In course of this relationship, INFP is constantly aware of ENTP's weakness in Fi. This manifests as the constant moral indignation that Thessaly has mentioned and criticisms concerning ethical issues. But ENTPs don't like Fi very much and grow resentful and angry at INFP always trying to correct them to be nicer (the supervisor, INFP, usually tries to turn their supervisee into a Pygmalion project, re-make them, change them somehow, so they engage in constant criticism aimed at supervisee's weakest function). Things can get rather uncomfortable for ENTP, and an unhealthy INFP with control issues may refuse to let go of the ENTP.

These relations often have on-off kind of dynamic. INFP and ENTP get together, the quarrel and break up, then get together again. Things usually start with ENTP chasing the INFP around, giving the INFP compliments, trying to get closer, and so on. These relations are better suited for friendship, but for romance better partner for ENTP are some of the Fe-types, xxFJs.

 

[entropie]

From what I've seen it's love-hate alright, like Thessaly described.

The problem is that ENTP-INFP match is described as Relations of Supervision in which INFP functions as a supervisor to ENTP. This is because INFP's strongest function, Fi, falls on ENTP's weakest spot in the psyche. In course of this relationship, INFP is constantly aware of ENTP's weakness in Fi. This manifests as the constant moral indignation that Thessaly has mentioned and criticisms concerning ethical issues. But ENTPs don't like Fi very much and grow resentful and angry at INFP always trying to correct them to be nicer (the supervisor, INFP, usually tries to turn their supervisee into a Pygmalion project, re-make them, change them somehow, so they engage in constant criticism aimed at supervisee's weakest function). Things can get rather uncomfortable for ENTP, and an unhealthy INFP with control issues may refuse to let go of the ENTP.

These relations often have on-off kind of dynamic. INFP and ENTP get together, the quarrel and break up, then get together again. Things usually start with ENTP chasing the INFP around, giving the INFP compliments, trying to get closer, and so on. These relations are better suited for friendship, but for romance better partner for ENTP are some of the Fe-types, xxFJs.

I have gotten to know that a bit differently in socionics. Namely that the entp/infp relationship is called one of mirage or illusionary. That means that tho every 2nd function the two share is the same, every 1st or 3rd function is a polar opposite. Here's an exceprt from my source:

At a distance, illusionary partners may experience a wide range of attitudes to each other — from like to mutual mockery — but this is generally true of most intertype relations. In closer contact, partners find they can be of practical assistance to each other in a variety of ways, even if they are not driven to become close emotionally. Leadership duties are divided naturally between partners, one of which is extraverted and the other introverted, and who both share a common rational or irrational approach to living. Despite this significant underlying compatibility, prolonged interaction leads to a dissatisfaction with everything about the relationship that is related to the other's leading function. Partners unconsciously expect the other person to accept their general sentiments about things and build upon them, but illusionary partners inevitably present their own completely independent worldviews that are somewhat at odds with the other's.

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Mirage

This intertype relationship thing tho, isnt only astounding due to its logical appeal, I can too from life experience say that a lot of that works quite well. My gf is an isfp and there the whole model changes and the isfp becomes even the dual of the entp. I think that a lot of the entp / infp relationship commonalities tho, does go back on that mirage thing and isnt always such a good thing for both partners.

 

[Thessaly]

From what I've seen it's love-hate alright, like Thessaly described.

The problem is that ENTP-INFP match is described as Relations of Supervision in which INFP functions as a supervisor to ENTP. This is because INFP's strongest function, Fi, falls on ENTP's weakest spot in the psyche. In course of this relationship, INFP is constantly aware of ENTP's weakness in Fi. This manifests as the constant moral indignation that Thessaly has mentioned and criticisms concerning ethical issues. But ENTPs don't like Fi very much and grow resentful and angry at INFP always trying to correct them to be nicer (the supervisor, INFP, usually tries to turn their supervisee into a Pygmalion project, re-make them, change them somehow, so they engage in constant criticism aimed at supervisee's weakest function). Things can get rather uncomfortable for ENTP, and an unhealthy INFP with control issues may refuse to let go of the ENTP.

These relations often have on-off kind of dynamic. INFP and ENTP get together, the quarrel and break up, then get together again. Things usually start with ENTP chasing the INFP around, giving the INFP compliments, trying to get closer, and so on. These relations are better suited for friendship, but for romance better partner for ENTP are some of the Fe-types, xxFJs.

I think theory works best in invidual analysis. I don't get this way with ENTPs. Any of them yet.

 

[sulfit]

I have gotten to know that a bit differently in socionics. Namely that the entp/infp relationship is called one of mirage or illusionary. That means that tho every 2nd function the two share is the same, every 1st or 3rd function is a polar opposite. Here's an exceprt from my source:

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Mirage

This intertype relationship thing tho, isnt only astounding due to its logical appeal, I can too from life experience say that a lot of that works quite well. My gf is an isfp and there the whole model changes and the isfp becomes even the dual of the entp. I think that a lot of the entp / infp relationship commonalities tho, does go back on that mirage thing and isnt always such a good thing for both partners.

In Socionics the j/p letters are not distributed the same way as in MBTI and are written lower-case to show it.

Socionics INFp has Ni and Fe in Ego so in MBTI terms that would be INFJ. ENTPs and INFJs are in Mirage relations.
MBTI INFP corresponds to their INFj which has Fi and Ne in Ego and this type is listed as supervisor to ENTP.

Basically when converting types you have to switch the last letter around for the introverts, but extraverted type are ok to go as they are.

If you don't see any of the relationships aligning then most likely you have not typed yourself correctly.

 

[entropie]

In Socionics the j/p letters are not distributed the same way as in MBTI and are written lower-case to show it.

Socionics INFp has Ni and Fe in Ego so in MBTI terms that would be INFJ. ENTPs and INFJs are in Mirage relations.
MBTI INFP corresponds to their INFj which has Fi and Ne in Ego and this type is listed as supervisor to ENTP.

Basically when converting types you have to switch the last letter around for the introverts, but extraverted type are ok to go as they are.

If you don't see any of the relationships aligning then most likely you have not typed yourself correctly.

But then you'ld have to transform entp as well, cause only the first two functions match with mbti. The third and fourth would in socionics be Se and Fi.

I wouldnt transform those systems at all, thats just confusing. Those tests, namely socionics and mbti are nice ideas, but forcing them into a systematic model to combine them would be overkill.

I always found the socionics descriptions to be more fitting because for entps they say that Se, so sensation plays some kind of big role for them. And that would be true, I can confirm that. I am generally like a cat, very curious.
Regarding isfp or infp the same applies for my gf. In The ixfp description in socionics talks about the F-function being a social function in general. Whereas in mbti and on this forum, Fi generally is attributed to socially introverted people. In socionics tho they say that Fe is the capability to express emotions, sense emotions and motivate or induce emotions. While Fi would be like Ti, the art of analyzing it or the art of introspection.

I often like that concept better cause it doesnt focus so much whether an individuum was socially introverted or extroverted meaning whether it fits its expected role. It more starts with the premise that all people are in an equal social context and on an equal level and then deals with their interactions.

 

[Ginkgo]

'Tis a good combo. A bit directionless, but a good combo.

 

[sulfit]

But then you'ld have to transform entp as well, cause only the first two functions match with mbti. The third and fourth would in socionics be Se and Fi.

Socionics lists functions for types in different order than MBTI.

They go like this:
1st and 2nd valued functions (Ne and Ti for ENTP)
3rd and 4th rejected functions (Se and Fi for ENTP)
5th and 6th valued functions (Fe and Si for ENTP)
7th and 8th rejected functions (Ni and Te for ENTP)

Which functions ENTP values doesn't change, so ENTP isn't transformed in any way and stays ENTp.

 

[Istbkleta]

[MENTION=10791]sulfit[/MENTION]

Thanks for the great info.
There aren't many socionics sources online, esp. in English.

The order of the rejected functions seems interesting. Kind of along the lines of Beebe's (and other analysts).

Are the rejected functions in socionics assigned productive roles as in Beebe's model?

Your last statement might be misunderstood by many who view type as some static label/description. I'm not really sure what you are saying there. As far as I know the natural progression in life is to absorb more of the "functions" into the conscious awareness. Jung talks about an ambivalent state of reconciling the opposites (which is different from personified life) which I understand as a change in the intensity of preferring one function at the expense of another.

 

[Snuggletron]

As friend's it's pretty good. Lots of laughs and general comedic camaraderie. As lovers, I'm not sure (never btdt).

 

[sulfit]

The order of the rejected functions seems interesting. Kind of along the lines of Beebe's (and other analysts).

Are the rejected functions in socionics assigned productive roles as in Beebe's model?

Rejected functions are given roles in Socionics. You can read about them here (SuperEgo and Id contain unvalued functions): http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Functions
Additional explanation: http://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...Functions-of-the-Socionic-Model-of-the-Psyche

Your last statement might be misunderstood by many who view type as some static label/description. I'm not really sure what you are saying there.

I was trying to explain that socionics ENTp values the same functions as MBTI ENTP: Ne-Ti-Fe-Si and that because the order in which functions are listed in socionics is different from MBTI it doesn't mean that these types are different.

As far as I know the natural progression in life is to absorb more of the "functions" into the conscious awareness. Jung talks about an ambivalent state of reconciling the opposites (which is different from personified life) which I understand as a change in the intensity of preferring one function at the expense of another.

From what I remember of Jung, he states that we take the first quarter century of our life to establish our ego. The ego corresponds to dominant and auxiliary functions. Then, past our mid-20s, we start developing other functions such as tertiary and inferior. At all times the functions are latent within the psyche, and depending on your age bracket they may be expressed at different strengths.

 

[Ivy]

ENTPs are insanely attractive but I don't always feel safe with them. Not, like, physically safe- I'm not worried about beatings or anything like that from ENTPs. Just.. I find INTPs a bit more tethered and deliberate, if that makes sense. They still have that Ne-a-poppin' that is so intoxicating to me, but they think before they say things that will crush me utterly. This is not to say that I don't think an INFP/ENTP relationship could be awesome! It certainly could, if the ENTP were of a thoughtful bent and the INFP were sufficiently tough. And if the INFP isn't tough right away, they might be willing to toughen up for the ENTP. Even being with an INTP has toughened me (in a good way).

 

[sulfit]

ENTPs are insanely attractive but I don't always feel safe with them. Not, like, physically safe- I'm not worried about beatings or anything like that from ENTPs. Just.. I find INTPs a bit more tethered and deliberate, if that makes sense. They still have that Ne-a-poppin' that is so intoxicating to me, but they think before they say things that will crush me utterly. This is not to say that I don't think an INFP/ENTP relationship could be awesome! It certainly could, if the ENTP were of a thoughtful bent and the INFP were sufficiently tough. And if the INFP isn't tough right away, they might be willing to toughen up for the ENTP. Even being with an INTP has toughened me (in a good way).

Socionics recommends pairing of INxx types with ESxx types. ESxx are good at managing and protecting physical resources which is something that INxx types don't do well for themselves. At the same time ESxx types don't have the kind of foresight and intuitive insight into situations that INxx types have.

 

[entropie]

As friend's it's pretty good. Lots of laughs and general comedic camaraderie. As lovers, I'm not sure (never btdt).

You meant delta dt right ?

No I dunno understand what you all have with that "entps are dangerous" thing. That only says that you dont know them. I mean they are like dogs: the one that bark the loudest are the least likely to bite you. And besides that, every entp has a little boy at heart. Its a good chance that your entp can become an adult who is reponsible and who stands his ground. But no matter what happens, there will always be a little sensitive boy at heart.

@Advice to entps:
if you start relationships with ixfp people, keep shields around little boy raised all times !

 

[Nijntje]

my only foray into infp/entp was horrid. But that's only because he was a controlling abusive drug addicted asshole. Otherwise, it might have worked.

 

[entropie]

That sucks. I am glad I got away from drugs and so prolly as well from being abusive.

Control is still an issue, but that could be german genes as well :/. I always answer the mbti p and j type questions in favor of the p result. But at work and in family I can sell me as a p to nobody. The very first time I took the mbti it gave me entj and hold the type description "The fieldmarshall". Since it was an american dating site I thought it wouldnt be so clever to run around there as a german wearing the label "fieldmarshall"