[INFP] INFJ Male Dating INFP Female, looking for advice

[Virgo1987]

I think she did see it that way, at least at one point maybe before i told her i wanted to be friends the 2nd time. She wouldn't stop texting me one night when i was out with friends, asking what i was doing and why i wasn't texting her back with long replies anymore. I did see this as a relationship with commitment, and i wouldn't of done anything myself.

The fast is, this is a mess. I'm torn between wondering if she was a player/leading me on (Her behavior) or was this just the way she was and maybe i have some learning to do and growing to do, accepting that everyone is different and maybe this girl was just like this. I don't know, and will probably never know. This is what is tearing me up. I guess either way it was, i can still learn from this. There are details i have missed out thou that i can only now just think about. The second time i said i just wanted to be friends and backed off, she texts me asking why, and what were my problems. I explained, the ex thing, the family thing, the being edgy round her phone in-front of me, the saying 'Not really' when i asked if she had anyone else on the rader. She only answered about the phone, saying shes an anxious person. She gave no other answers to my questions.

I think there was a reason for her paranoia. There might not have been, but she specifically pinpointed what she was paranoid about. That had nothing at all to do with you.

As for you, and as I hopefully now understand -- you liked this girl and she was not what you had expected. She made you curious, but you also had your doubts. You didn't tell her about them because you were afraid of not appearing to be an Alpha male. She could have taken your sincerity if you had decided to tell her about your feelings wonderfully or it could have pushed her away.

I think everyone in general ought to learn to accept people on a whole. I get it -- that doesn't always happen because values are strong like the goddamned star wars force in a lot of people, but if you can't decide on how you feel and stick with it, then don't look for another relationship with any girl until you're able to handle differences in opinions and values in almost an entirety. Because you will constantly find yourself getting too emotionally hurt and shutting down too many people.

You're an infj though so nothing I'm saying will be easy. I'm an infp and I'll shut down people the moment I see them because I go with my gut. Or that's just it -- forget I'm an infp -- I just am one of those people that goes with my gut and I keep my feelings highly protected until I can trust someone for any reason.

I don't think much time was put into this relationship and as much as I'm sure young people tend to want to move fast... sometimes that's why young people go through series of mishaps or relationships. Because they don't know how to handle themselves individually and then they add another person into the mix and it gets even worse. Immaturit does this as well I think, in people of any age, too.

I wish you luck tho even if I'm not much of a help!

 

[PeaceBaby]

The fast is, this is a mess. I'm torn between wondering if she was a player/leading me on (Her behavior) or was this just the way she was and maybe i have some learning to do and growing to do, accepting that everyone is different and maybe this girl was just like this. I don't know, and will probably never know. This is what is tearing me up. I guess either way it was, i can still learn from this. There are details i have missed out thou that i can only now just think about. The second time i said i just wanted to be friends and backed off, she texts me asking why, and what were my problems. I explained, the ex thing, the family thing, the being edgy round her phone in-front of me, the saying 'Not really' when i asked if she had anyone else on the rader. She only answered about the phone, saying shes an anxious person. She gave no other answers to my questions.

J's in general often ask "why" questions and P's often find these hard to answer in the moment. You know how as an INFJ you have "aha" moments of perception with a sudden knowing of a thing but not knowing why? Well, for an INFP, leading with introverted judging, we have that same sense about judgement. We generally "know" how we feel about something but can't always discern quickly why we came to that conclusion. Ask me "why" I made a decision or did any particular thing and I can't always say ... as an introverted function and NOT an external process much of the work happens without consciously placing everything out into the open. Thus, ESPECIALLY with young INFPs, you will often get half-answers, "I don't know" for answers, and just plain illogically stupid answers sometimes. Things that "don't add up". When it comes to dealing with INFJs though, EVERYTHING for you is about how things add up. We simply do not operate with the same paradigm yet your expectation is that everything has meaning, when for us it's simply not that way.

This is why I asked you the series of questions above. HOW you ask is as important as asking, and I suspect you were not as clear as you imagined you were in whatever you decided to raise as "issues" regardless. For example, with the Dad / car issue, next time you could ask, "What was it about seeing your Dad that worried you?" The "what" question parses to emotional exploration and then the chain of decision-making can be retraced in our minds.

It's not about you, is the bottom line.

I can tell you for myself, I would and never have been affectionate with someone I did not care genuinely about.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I think she did see it that way, at least at one point maybe before i told her i wanted to be friends the 2nd time. She wouldn't stop texting me one night when i was out with friends, asking what i was doing and why i wasn't texting her back with long replies anymore. I did see this as a relationship with commitment, and i wouldn't of done anything myself.

The fast is, this is a mess. I'm torn between wondering if she was a player/leading me on (Her behavior) or was this just the way she was and maybe i have some learning to do and growing to do, accepting that everyone is different and maybe this girl was just like this. I don't know, and will probably never know. This is what is tearing me up. I guess either way it was, i can still learn from this. There are details i have missed out thou that i can only now just think about. The second time i said i just wanted to be friends and backed off, she texts me asking why, and what were my problems. I explained, the ex thing, the family thing, the being edgy round her phone in-front of me, the saying 'Not really' when i asked if she had anyone else on the rader. She only answered about the phone, saying shes an anxious person. She gave no other answers to my questions.

At this point, learning from the experience will be best. Much of what you can learn will be about yourself. Some may be about interacting with Fi. There are useful helpers here for that, if you take the time to respond to their questions.

Better understanding yourself should make relationships much easier.

 

[Southern Kross]

J's in general often ask "why" questions and P's often find these hard to answer in the moment. You know how as an INFJ you have "aha" moments of perception with a sudden knowing of a thing but not knowing why? Well, for an INFP, leading with introverted judging, we have that same sense about judgement. We generally "know" how we feel about something but can't always discern quickly why we came to that conclusion. Ask me "why" I made a decision or did any particular thing and I can't always say ... as an introverted function and NOT an external process much of the work happens without consciously placing everything out into the open. Thus, ESPECIALLY with young INFPs, you will often get half-answers, "I don't know" for answers, and just plain illogically stupid answers sometimes. Things that "don't add up". When it comes to dealing with INFJs though, EVERYTHING for you is about how things add up. We simply do not operate with the same paradigm yet your expectation is that everything has meaning, when for us it's simply not that way.

This is why I asked you the series of questions above. HOW you ask is as important as asking, and I suspect you were not as clear as you imagined you were in whatever you decided to raise as "issues" regardless. For example, with the Dad / car issue, next time you could ask, "What was it about seeing your Dad that worried you?" The "what" question parses to emotional exploration and then the chain of decision-making can be retraced in our minds.

It's not about you, is the bottom line.

I can tell you for myself, I would and never have been affectionate with someone I did not care genuinely about.

I think there's different kinds of "why?" questions though. (I hope you don't mind a bit of distillation of what your saying )

The kind you are talking about is that INFJ version that is about intention. INFJs (and FJs in general it seems) often appear to ask themselves "why did he/she do that?" - aka, "what is their intention?". For INFPs intention is not at the forefront of our minds. We rarely consider it in others and don't consciously register our own. INFPs lack a deliberateness in their actions and are inclined to believe others do too. This means (as PB says) we do things and respond to input in a more unconscious, instinctive way. INFJs are much more deliberate and therefore perceive others' actions within the same lens.

I think INFPs are "why" people too, though, but it's to do with significance. So when we ask "why did he/she do that?", the real question is, "what message am I supposed to take away from this?". It's asking, "what information do I need to know to understand or appreciate this?".

 

[Norrsken]

Now I definitely know I'm not an INFP. Thanks, [MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION].
OP, any updates? Did you two break up or are you still together?

 

[mystik_INFJ]

I read bit in a hurry. You seem to have a troubled state. This relationship must be settled before it makes you hate getting up in the morning.

I have seen people advising that you are "overthinking it", "your Ni is broken", "paranoid". I wouldn't put the blame all on you. That's too easy and kinda lazy.

The thing is that if this is a new relationship and it is causing you so much distress, maybe you need someone more involved, like yourself? Careful, INFPs don't change often and when they do, they do it very slow. They are Fi creatures and when paired with Enneagram type 4 you're in trouble if they're not the way you'd like your significant other to be. My advice is to find an INFP that you really connect with because it makes things much easier. The more you try to push the INFP out of their usual orbit, the more resistance you'll get and the less of the person that you initially liked you'll get. (Side note, I usually tend to have the biggest clicks with INFP type 4 or fall into total disaster, which means that the variable is in the way they do things).

For "pushing out of orbit" someone it is better to try Fe users (that sounds bad). Fi users are like giant stars, shining lots of "authenticity" and personal values, if you try to remove some of the stuff you will get burned.

Second side note for context sake: While ENFPs are YOLO and often annoying in their childish behavior, INFPs are a bit more sensitive and sensible, they can listen to your "demands". So, I would suggest talking to her about it on a more serious note, but also talk to yourself. Use your Ni to project your future in this relationship. Even if you're wrong, each time you fail there is something to learn and add to the Ni reliability, so it gets better with time.

I trust my Ni over 90% of the time. I've been around and made plenty of good decisions and bad ones, so it got more dependable with time. However, if I would be romantically interested in such a person, I would probably classify her as "damaged goods" and move on. I know, this isn't what you want to hear from me and I get it. However, good relationships have a great start, there is a strong spark that manifests itself outside the bedroom. It's chemistry that fuses strong bonds. Friendship before anything else. And from the looks of it, you don't have too much friendship going on, with all the secret keeping, leaving you on the outside. She runs away from you and you're constantly seem one step behind. Which means you'll never catch up. Is that what makes you happy?

I suggest to say the uncomfortable things the next time you meet and settle it. Maybe you need someone more involved and more time demanding. It's not a problem. There are plenty of people like that. But don't accept something if it doesn't seem to lead anywhere good.

Disclaimer: Don't follow your heart. Follow your mind and heart at the same time.

 

[Fine_21]

Hey. Just an update

Not sure if i put this in the post, but on that week where everything went weird, i sent a bit of a nasty message to her on the Sunday which read (Your not a nice person, good luck to the next guy). I then proceeded to block her on everything. I felt so bad sending it, and immediately it was eating me up. I just thought i was getting played around. Looking back, it was my on and off attitude that maybe caused her to distance like has been said.

Anyway i messaged apologizing some days later, and got a reply saying its not a problem and hope i had a good birthday. We chatted on and off for about a week from that. I then asked her what was going on with us and if she wants me to 'move on''. She replied she felt a bit different now about me, after what i said and that yes i should move on. I then went no contact with her, just no messages nothing and just tried to move on. I got a message exactly a week after i decided to no contact with her (Yesterday) saying "Miss you hope your alright". We then chatted for a bit that day and she asked if we could do something together some time. We agreed this weekend. Now im shit scared, confused and just don't know whats happening.

I'm going away on holiday in just over 9 days and i don't want this horrible hurting crap feeling. I'm confused as to why she wants to meet up, especially so early on after what she said about me moving on and she felt different. I've had no contact with her today, i've not spoke to her, and normally in the past would get a message from her but nothing. I'm wondering if you anyone could shred some light on this for me.

 

[PeaceBaby]

The hurting tells you that she has meaning to you. It reveals the depths of your emotional investment. It's ok.

In reaction, you're trying to analyze her behaviour and draw conclusions from that, in an effort to protect yourself. I would suggest you do your best to stay in the moment of getting together and focus more on being in touch with how you feel about being around her rather than trying to draw conclusions about every small thing that's transpiring. By doing so, it will help you know if you're able to connect again emotionally and work through the issues you've already built up in this short time of interaction with her. Of course you will process after the fact, it's natural for an Ni dom to do, try to puzzle out what every tiny thing might mean. Realizing though that Ni has the most propensity towards this tendency will help you remember too that not every type is outputting behaviour to send what to you must make some sort of sense as a consistent message or pattern. You're both young and learning and growing. Make an allowance for that.

Stay in the moment, here. You will be alright.

 

[Norrsken]

[MENTION=29181]Fine_21[/MENTION]: Don't go to that meeting with high hopes. Just be prepared that she will give you the "just friends" speech that tends to happen after most break ups. I highly suggest you reject that idea and try to go no contact until you have her out of your mind and heart, however long that will take.

 

[Fine_21]

Well an update. Never ended up meeting up, long story. I'm feeling horrible thou now over all of this. I'm blaming myself, self hating. I'm looking back and see the mistakes i had in my thinking. I never tackled the issues upfront either, and left them. I was a bit paranoid, and i dont know why. Did i have a valid reason? Would anyone of been like that in my situation? Am i the problem?

All these questions keep going round in my head. Its as though i need some clarity on what went wrong, were it went wrong. Was alot of it down to me or were my thoughts justified? Alot of questions. Quite frankly, i feel scared. Very scared that is was mostly me that messed this up and that im going to do it again with a future relationship. But i carn't get full clarity on if it was me. Its as thou i need to go through the whole thing, start to finish to work it out.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Well an update. Never ended up meeting up, long story. I'm feeling horrible thou now over all of this. I'm blaming myself, self hating. I'm looking back and see the mistakes i had in my thinking. I never tackled the issues upfront either, and left them. I was a bit paranoid, and i dont know why. Did i have a valid reason? Would anyone of been like that in my situation? Am i the problem?

All these questions keep going round in my head. Its as though i need some clarity on what went wrong, were it went wrong. Was alot of it down to me or were my thoughts justified? Alot of questions. Quite frankly, i feel scared. Very scared that is was mostly me that messed this up and that im going to do it again with a future relationship. But i carn't get full clarity on if it was me. Its as thou i need to go through the whole thing, start to finish to work it out.

I wouldn't beat yourself up. You did the best that you could do at this time. Whatever mistakes or errors which you did best serve as possible areas of growth. Falling on our faces isn't the problem. Failing to get up and try again is.

Try not not wallow in self-hate too long.

Anyway, try to engage in physical activities as much as possible. Lots of walks, exercise, sports, etc. Try to be as fully engaged in each activity as possible. It will help get you through this.

 

[Fine_21]

I wouldn't beat yourself up. You did the best that you could do at this time. Whatever mistakes or errors which you did best serve as possible areas of growth. Falling on our faces isn't the problem. Failing to get up and try again is.

Try not not wallow in self-hate too long.

Anyway, try to engage in physical activities as much as possible. Lots of walks, exercise, sports, etc. Try to be as fully engaged in each activity as possible. It will help get you through this.

I cant escape that feeling. Its probably going to be with me for some time. I'm in self hate mode, i should of know better mode. If it was a straight forward i got cheated on, and did nothing wrong and it ended, that would be different. This is something that is seriously scaring me. I just want to be aware of whats happened, ive got no clarity on it. Was the way i was due to her behavior, or am i doomed to make these same mistakes again and its me that has a problem.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I cant escape that feeling. Its probably going to be with me for some time. I'm in self hate mode, i should of know better mode. If it was a straight forward i got cheated on, and did nothing wrong and it ended, that would be different. This is something that is seriously scaring me. I just want to be aware of whats happened, ive got no clarity on it. Was the way i was due to her behavior, or am i doomed to make these same mistakes again and its me that has a problem.

You may never know. You could have been entirely correct or you could have been irrationally paranoid. Given everything, I suspect you were not irrational.

Moving on from self-hate will be good, because it could be unjustified. Again, you did the best you could given the situation and your life to this point. It is entirely possible that all your fears were completely correct and valid.

If you knew for sure that everything you feared was true, would you have done anything different?

Either way, you need to work on yourself. The world is full of other girls. Try to figure out why you reacted the way you did and you need to work on.

When I was a young man, I remember two girls I didn't date, but I was very draw towards. In both cases, I knew that if I dated them, it would have been really bad for me......there was just something about them that hit me in a bad spot. I was happy neither one was interested.....

Work on yourself

 

[PeaceBaby]

Well an update. Never ended up meeting up, long story. I'm feeling horrible thou now over all of this. I'm blaming myself, self hating. I'm looking back and see the mistakes i had in my thinking. I never tackled the issues upfront either, and left them. I was a bit paranoid, and i dont know why. Did i have a valid reason? Would anyone of been like that in my situation? Am i the problem?

All these questions keep going round in my head. Its as though i need some clarity on what went wrong, were it went wrong. Was alot of it down to me or were my thoughts justified? Alot of questions. Quite frankly, i feel scared. Very scared that is was mostly me that messed this up and that im going to do it again with a future relationship. But i carn't get full clarity on if it was me. Its as thou i need to go through the whole thing, start to finish to work it out.

In the final analysis, you undoubtedly both made mistakes. Rather than try to figure out what went wrong and who would have been to blame for any given part, what would you say at this point you have learned that you can apply to your next relationship? What can you do in future if any of the same questions arise?

And a .. I am sorry things didn't go the way you wanted, here.

 

[Virgo1987]

Well an update. Never ended up meeting up, long story. I'm feeling horrible thou now over all of this. I'm blaming myself, self hating. I'm looking back and see the mistakes i had in my thinking. I never tackled the issues upfront either, and left them. I was a bit paranoid, and i dont know why. Did i have a valid reason? Would anyone of been like that in my situation? Am i the problem?

All these questions keep going round in my head. Its as though i need some clarity on what went wrong, were it went wrong. Was alot of it down to me or were my thoughts justified? Alot of questions. Quite frankly, i feel scared. Very scared that is was mostly me that messed this up and that im going to do it again with a future relationship. But i carn't get full clarity on if it was me. Its as thou i need to go through the whole thing, start to finish to work it out.

It takes two people for any kind of relationship... just remember that. It'll be hard... when you aren't given clarity or proper closure, you're left to deal with everything on your own... it sucks.

I wouldn't get ahead of the game though... you may not react this way in the future, but I understand the fear. When people get hurt, or at least I imagine (like when myself gets hurt), they kind of hold back/lay low and they think about themselves. What could they have done, will it happen again... it's like you become so aware of everything that made the other person reject you or end something with you all together. You start to feel ashamed, guilty, petty, pathetic, but one thing to know is that it isn't entirely your fault. You weren't entirely wrong. This is about trying to understand someone and that someone not willing to be understood.

This might be a cruel thought, but sometimes I wonder how people work when it comes to things like this. Where one person just wants a direct answer and the other either gives the silent treatment or beats around the bush. The prevention of proper closure is a tricky area... some people are just stone cold when it comes to it, to be honest. You could ask them repeatedly to make a final call about something or to answer even a single question and they'll never give you the time of day... like you never existed or worst -- you're not deserving of any respect.

I wish it had all gone better, but I don't really think with someone like her it was going to go that way. She was just too back and forth from the beginning, though I know you don't want to hear that. I'm sorry.