In the Poetic Psyche the Lover Becomes the Beloved

[Mole]

Poetic thinking is different from normal thinking.

Normal thinking is interested in thinking about while poetic thinking is interested in being.

So in poetic thinking the thinker and the thought collapse into one, so the thinker disappears into the thought just as you disappear in that sweet moment of juissance.

But you soon reappear and seek another moment of disappearance - that is why it is called, "the little death" or "la petite mort".

We die and we come to life to long to die once again. And this is the secret of happiness - alternance.

And alternance is the secret of poetry. We move from our awake state - our normal state of mind - from our ego - into the words themselves. So we are no longer talking about things, we are things - just as the lover becomes the beloved.

But then we wake and ask ourselves, what does it all mean?

Until we loose all meaning once again in juissance.

 

[clueless]

Poetic thinking is different from normal thinking.

Normal thinking is interested in thinking about while poetic thinking is interested in being.

So in poetic thinking the thinker and the thought collapse into one, so the thinker disappears into the thought just as you disappear in that sweet moment of juissance.

But you soon reappear and seek another moment of disappearance - that is why it is called, "the little death" or "la petite mort".

We die and we come to life to long to die once again. And this is the secret of happiness - alternance.

And alternance is the secret of poetry. We move from our awake state - our normal state of mind - from our ego - into the words themselves. So we are no longer talking about things, we are things - just as the lover becomes the beloved.

But then we wake and ask ourselves, what does it all mean?

Until we loose all meaning once again in juissance.

Why not just come out and say what you really mean, Victor.

 

[Mole]

Repunzel

Why not just come out and say what you really mean, Victor.

What a good question, Clueless.

It's true, I hide in delight, I hide in juissance but then I poke my head around the corner - and there I am - asking what it all means.

There is a sense in which you are right, Clueless - I play ducks and drakes with meaning because meaning requires a background - and the perfect background for meaning is meaninglessness. And luckily I can visit meaninglessness and come back.

And so the foreground I am painting is meaning, while the background is meaninglessness.

But most of all is that moment of delight, that moment of juissance, as I pass between meaning and meaninglessness. Who can blame me for seeking it again and again?

And you have a grand obsession - you believe, no you see, that everyone is fake and phoney - everyone is wearing a mask - everyone is lying all the time.

Nothing can shake you from this obsession, not love and not logic.

You are Repunzel who can't let down her hair.

 

[murkrow]

I'm not seeing the difference between poetic thinking and "normal" thinking.

I understand that poetic thinking can be seen as self satisfying, but the goal of poetic creation is still there.

The creative aspect of poetic thought is what separates it from simple intellectual masturbation.

When you say alternance is the secret of poetry do you mean that the goal of poetry is to convey the moment of alternance into eternity, or only that the pursuit of alternance is the source of poetry?

 

[colmena]

Why do I never catch these threads when they arrive!?

This topic has been in my head for months, thinking it couldn't be put into words.

Thank you for articulating my mind again, Ted.

 

[Mole]

Why do I never catch these threads when they arrive!?

This topic has been in my head for months, thinking it couldn't be put into words.

Thank you for articulating my mind again, Ted.

It does seem we have similar minds, so perhaps we shouldn't be surprised when we think the same thoughts.

I do find it comforting to find you feel and think in a similar way.

It is quite amazing and I find it not only comforting but gives me more confidence.

Ted.

 

[Mole]

I'm not seeing the difference between poetic thinking and "normal" thinking.

I understand that poetic thinking can be seen as self satisfying, but the goal of poetic creation is still there.

The creative aspect of poetic thought is what separates it from simple intellectual masturbation.

When you say alternance is the secret of poetry do you mean that the goal of poetry is to convey the moment of alternance into eternity, or only that the pursuit of alternance is the source of poetry?

It's hard to describe - its more like hearing the difference than seeing the difference - so it is more like the difference between seeing and hearing.

And you are quite right, the end result, the goal is a creation. But when you are making something, it doesn't seem like you are making something, it is more like you are listening and writing it down without effort.

And alternance is more like movement. The movement between hearing the words and seeing what they mean. And so you dance between hearing and seeing.

It is very hard to describe. I would like to be able to tell you to do this then do that and see what the difference is between them. I would like to be able to show you the distinction between this and that. The best I can suggest is that you pay attention. And as you pay attention, your reward will be to see the difference and hear the distinction.

A metaphor is a comparison of relationships. So I am really trying to show you the inside of a metaphor but without much luck.

Perhaps I will do better next time.

 

[Ilah]

I'm not seeing the difference between poetic thinking and "normal" thinking.

I understand that poetic thinking can be seen as self satisfying, but the goal of poetic creation is still there.

The creative aspect of poetic thought is what separates it from simple intellectual masturbation.

When you say alternance is the secret of poetry do you mean that the goal of poetry is to convey the moment of alternance into eternity, or only that the pursuit of alternance is the source of poetry?

My Ni and Fi "think" in images and sounds and sensations. If I put this into words it becomes poetic language. Poetry is - for me - the language of my heart [Fi] and soul [Ni]. Actually poetic language is a more accurate discription than poetry. Some of what I do could be thought of as freeform poetry but I ususally use terms like poetic ramblings or random artistic words.

For me describing things poetically is not necessarily creative. That is how the words come out automatically. The challange is taking it from poetic langauge to plain langauge that people might understand.

An example:
My mind shows certain images, sounds, sensation, to convey a feeling. I TRANSLATE this into words: Dark clouds gather. Thunder rumbles in the distance. Lightening flashes in the distant horizon. The clouds hang heavy with the possibity of rain. Then I TRANSLATE this AGAIN into plain language: I feel very irritable right now. Loosing my temper or crying is a distinct possibility.

This was an easy example for a relatively straight forward feeling. Complex feeling and matters of the Ni are much more involved and it is often hard for me to translate a second time.

Each translation loses something. The plain words do not fully convey the depth of what I feel. Sometimes no plain words seem to fit. But if I don't do this people accuse me of being deliberately obscure - of taking plain words and putting them into hard to understand words. No amount of explaination can convince them that it isn't true.

Ilah

 

[clueless]

Thank you for articulating my mind again, Ted.

Why do you insist upon calling him Ted?

Victor, why does s/he call you Ted? Why do you call yourself Ted? Your name is Victor, or so I thought.

Changing your name yet again?

 

[colmena]

Why do you insist upon calling him Ted?

Victor, why does s/he call you Ted? Why do you call yourself Ted? Your name is Victor, or so I thought.

Changing your name yet again?

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/health-fitness/1697-insomnia-suggestions-10.html#post233550

 

[clueless]

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/health-fitness/1697-insomnia-suggestions-10.html#post233550

Thanks, missed that one.

 

[Mole]

Why do you insist upon calling him Ted?

Victor, why does s/he call you Ted? Why do you call yourself Ted? Your name is Victor, or so I thought.

Changing your name yet again?

Colmena was kind enough to defend me by suggesting that I was just a big teddy bear. So from then on, I've been Ted.

I am always Victor but sometimes Victor the teddy bear. Or just Ted.

 

[aeon]

Poetic thinking is different from normal thinking.

Normal thinking is interested in thinking about while poetic thinking is interested in being.

So in poetic thinking the thinker and the thought collapse into one, so the thinker disappears into the thought just as you disappear in that sweet moment of juissance.

But you soon reappear and seek another moment of disappearance - that is why it is called, "the little death" or "la petite mort".

We die and we come to life to long to die once again. And this is the secret of happiness - alternance.

And alternance is the secret of poetry. We move from our awake state - our normal state of mind - from our ego - into the words themselves. So we are no longer talking about things, we are things - just as the lover becomes the beloved.

But then we wake and ask ourselves, what does it all mean?

Until we loose all meaning once again in juissance.

I like this much, Victor.

N.B., it is spelled "jouissance."


cheers,
Ian

 

[Mole]

I like this much, Victor.

N.B., it is spelled "jouissance."


cheers,
Ian

Thanks Ian. It's nice to hear from you. And thanks for, "jouissance".

Victor.

 

[heart]

I agree with Victor about poetic thinking.

 

[Mole]

I agree with Victor about poetic thinking.

And how agreeable you are, dear Heart.

 

[entropie]

I remember a type of quote people used to say
But I never really understood it 'til today

Life will only get harder from here
I think about that almost every time I shed a tear

I look back on the happy years I once had
And I wish for them to come back Oh so bad

Pressure is a big part of teenage lives today
Temptations of sex, drugs, and violence never seem to go away

You never really know which road to choose
It seems which ever way you go, your bound to lose

Happiness eventually falls on your lap
Only to look once more and see it gone in a snap

Why does it seem I can't smile like before?
As if the joyous part of me walked right out the door

I never show my true feelings which is why I'm writing this poem
I guess my feelings are personal to me and I'm too embarrassed to show 'em

One day I'll find happiness again
I just have to live my life until then

And while I'm waiting just for that
I think I'll give myself a pat on the back

'Cuz I've come this far without giving up completely
I'm trying to enjoy life, it's very difficult, believe me

I guess that's the message I'm trying to send out
To keep your head up when giving up is what your thinkin 'bout

Take life's punches right in the face
And you'll see things will come to you at there own pace

Sad Peom
© By Krystal M. Garcia
-------------
I agree with you victor, on all your way of truth finding you have embraced truth with your words, very very very close. In a way Even I understand.

But despite the feeling of thinking you must have to be poetriesized, let us never forget the meaning of personal poems.

 

[FallsPioneer]

That was a good poem.

 

[phoenix13]

Poetic thinking is different from normal thinking.

Normal thinking is interested in thinking about while poetic thinking is interested in being.

So in poetic thinking the thinker and the thought collapse into one, so the thinker disappears into the thought just as you disappear in that sweet moment of jouissance.

But you soon reappear and seek another moment of disappearance - that is why it is called, "the little death" or "la petite mort".

We die and we come to life to long to die once again.
And this is the secret of happiness - alternance.

And alternance is the secret of poetry. We move from our awake state - our normal state of mind - from our ego - into the words themselves. So we are no longer talking about things, we are things - just as the lover becomes the beloved.

But then we wake and ask ourselves, what does it all mean?

Until we loose all meaning once again in jouissance.

That is poetic in itself. It's beautiful. The bolded resonated with me quite a bit (the cycle is reminiscent of a certain mythical bird :hi. However, I am puzzled by the underlined portion. What do you mean by "happiness" and how does alternance get you there? I sense a bit of escapism in "jouissance." I'm projecting existential crisis into "what does it all mean?" Is that escape the happiness you speak of?

 

[Mole]

That is poetic in itself. It's beautiful. The bolded resonated with me quite a bit (the cycle is reminiscent of a certain mythical bird :hi. However, I am puzzled by the underlined portion. What do you mean by "happiness" and how does alternance get you there? I sense a bit of escapism in "juissance." I'm projecting existential crisis into "what does it all mean?" Is that escape the happiness you speak of?

Up from the ashes, O Phoenix.

And on to answer your questions -

We are inclined to focus on a single thing - when we are at work, we focus on work - and when we are on holiday, we focus on enjoying ourselves - and sometimes we think, if only I could stay on holiday forever, I would be forever happy. But soon it would pall and we would become bored.

So our happiness lies not in being on holiday all the time but in alternating between work and holidays - the French call it, "alternance".

And they generalise it to other aspects of life such as interval training where you exercise then rest, then exercise then rest and so on.

I am particularly fond of alternance in dancing then relaxing, dance then relaxing , etc.

I dance for five minutes then I sit for five minutes. I do this five times. And it takes fifty minutes.

When I dance for five minutes, I become eurphoric. And when I sit for five minutes, the relaxation response automatically kicks in and I deeply relax.

So I alternate between euphoria and relaxation over a period of fifty minutes.

This set up a metabolic wave in my body - when I dance my heart rate goes up, my breathing goes up, my galvanic skin response goes up as do many other metabolic indicators.

But when I sit down all my metabolic rates come down - so I peak while dancing and trough when sitting.

This sets up a metabolic wave in my body quite like a sine wave.

And doctors tell me that, within proper limits, the larger the wave, the healthier you are.

And the smaller the wave, the sicker you are until your metabolic waves become so small you are flatlining. And then of course you are not alive at all.

So I say life depends on large, healthy metabolic waves - life depends on alternance - and life is happiness.