[ENFP] Hate an ENFP? Tell us why!

[Qre:us]

Qre:us, you're killing me.

Softly, m'dear. Oh, so, softly...

 

[ergophobe]

If you want an ENFP to listen to your critiscism, you might wanna consider using the proper feedback rules:

1) Timing is everything
2) Don't use 'YOU did this or this' but 'that made me feel/think this and this and this and affected me that way'
3) allow time to process and time for a response
4) Take response on board, and do not dismiss it as an excuse
5) Find compromise/solution together
(this is actually from my 'human interaction' course, believe it or not. I'm willing to post the 'how to receive feedback properly' rules as well if anyone cares)

I'll go with 1 but will say that it applies across all types. Criticism when ANY type is stressed means they will be less equipped to handle it.
I don't agree with 2 - I am okay with bluntess because there is less space for misinterpretation. Adding the feeling component does bring out the empathy though which quickly gets me to understand the other person's perspective better.
3 is the most important. Personally, I need time to detach to be able to let what's been said sink in and think through it logically and think about what I can do to better the situation (apologize and alter behavior/acknowledge and maintain status quo). Without that, the process will just be less productive for everyone.
4 also seems like it would be useful for most types partcularly Fs (acknowledging reaction in the form, "I can see you're upset"? ). Seems okay although I am likely to respond with, no I'm not.

Here's another question, how do you think ENFPs can tackle getting better at not taking criticisms personally?

Detach, detach, detach. For this, we need time and familiarity with/trust in the criticizer. Maybe ENTPs can give us tips on how to detach since it is your specialty

 

[Amargith]

Ok, translated from my course (this is applicable to all types of people btw):

Giving feedback (I added it back in as I saw I missed some steps ):

* time your feedback
* describe the behavior concretely so you do not attack the person itself
* describe why it is a problem for you, and what effect it has on you
* Use 'I' instead of 'You' (for instance :YOU always do that vs I feel that..)
* Allow space for a reaction
* Describe your wish
* Explore the options/solutions together


Receiving feedback (even when it wasn't properly formulated):

* Listen actively to what the other person says
* Ask them to elaborate or explain
* Show appreciation even if you disagree
* describe what you're agreeing with
* describe what you're not agreeing with
* explore possible solutions together.


Also recommended when giving someone feedback is what is referred to as the 'Sandwich Feedback':

(this is where you wedge a potentially negative comment between two positive comments):

* What I think you did that was great specifically
* AND what I think you could potentially improve on (not BUT!!!)
* In general, I think... (something positive)

Enjoy

 

[Qre:us]

Detach, detach, detach. For this, we need time and familiarity with/trust in the criticizer. Maybe ENTPs can give us tips on how to detach since it is your specialty

You know how tails of some lizards detaches for them to make a sweet getaway? A protective evolutionary feature. Think of it in terms of that, aids in, (1) protection, (2) get-away, (3) it'll always grow back.


Fi is quite like a lizard's tail, you know.

 

[Udog]

Also recommended when giving someone feedback is what is referred to as the 'Sandwich Feedback':

Ah, I prefer 'cookie' feedback myself.

Actually, your feedback seems like pretty good, non-ENFP only advice. Thanks for sharing.

 

[ergophobe]

You know how tails of some lizards detaches for them to make a sweet getaway? A protective evolutionary feature. Think of it in terms of that, aids in, (1) protection, (2) get-away, (3) it'll always grow back.


Fi is quite like a lizard's tail, you know.

Well put and actually really is a great metaphor for how NTs must see Fi. More of a liability than a source of strength during crisis.

The problem is that our perspective is different. Fi is more integral to our being and functioning than for NTs - sort of like sight. I've learned though, in my own experience, to treat it more like a pair of glasses (still essential to seeing) but Fi is not the only pair available. You need shades for bright sunshine. Similarly for interpersonal crises, putting regular glasses aside and putting Ti goggles (the word makes me giggle) on could mean better vision.

Still missing is a step - how. We both acknowledge the value of detachment even though we perceive Fi differently. The how is important. For me, I'll repeat to myself the things that may come naturally to NTs. Amargith, this is related to the points you listed as well. When people around us are not aware of how to best approach us, it doesn't mean that what they're saying is not valid and could be quite useful to us in the long run. So, a way around the other person's lack of using the best conditions is to repeat to self -- "It's not about me, it's probably about something I do and can change". If I say it to myself, I am actually far more likely to believe it. It's my Ti switch. It took practice but it works quite well now. Maybe it's easier because I don't score high at all on F on every test I've ever taken.

 

[Lady_X]

good point girlie yeah.

is it just me or does that winky smiliey seem a bit swarmy? i'm not sure i like it.

wait...is swarmy the word i mean...omg. nevermind!

 

[Qre:us]

wait...is swarmy the word i mean...omg. nevermind!

smarmy

Still missing is a step - how.

The analogy answers this...there is no how. If you recognize when it hinders/threatens rather than heals/helps, you will let it go. No how. Just survival. The lizard doesn't ask how, nor mourns, because something else triumps it...that of the urgency of the situation where the tail is a hindrance, a trap.

"It's not about me, it's probably about something I do and can change".

Actually, I'd argue, this is still quite about self (if we mean that to be somewhat of a reflection of Fi). As an Fe user, my interpretation would be, "We are not the same, why did they arrive where they did, given me as possible triggers? And why did I arrive where I did, given their part to play as possible triggers? Where was OUR disconnect?"

 

[ergophobe]

smarmy

Lady X - You couldn't be smarmy if you tried (I mean that in a good way).

The analogy answers this...there is no how. If you recognize when it hinders/threatens rather than heals/helps, you will let it go. No how. Just survival. The lizard doesn't ask how, nor mourns, because something else triumps it...that of the urgency of the situation where the tail is a hindrance, a trap.

Yes, but even recognizing that the Fi is hurting/hindering assumes detachment. It comes so easily to you, I don't think you realize quite how difficult it is for us as this is not a natural way of being. There is a how involved in stepping back to even see that the feelings are getting in the way.

Actually, I'd argue, this is still quite about self (if we mean that to be somewhat of a reflection of Fi). As an Fe user, my interpretation would be, "We are not the same, why did they arrive where they did, given me as possible triggers? And why did I arrive where I did, given their part to play as possible triggers? Where was OUR disconnect?"

I agree. It is about self . My words were just not quite as precise as I would have liked them to be. By no means did I want to imply absolving self of responsibility as part of the how of detachment. It was more about not letting the criticism take over your identity. People get defensive when they see their sense of self threatened. A single piece of criticism should not threaten the whole sense of self. There is a way of detaching one's sense of self and yet seeing the criticism/point raised (not always criticism) as addressing a part of who I am and what I do and not the whole.

It is always about OUR disconnect. I am not recommending shying away from taking responsibility while also acknowledging that it is about TWO people and both their behaviors. I can still only understand my own best. What's also helped in the past is the promise of a continuing discussion. Going away, detaching, thinking through things in that mode and then coming back to listen and learn again about the other person's perspective is very useful.

 

[Qre:us]

Yes, but even recognizing that the Fi is hurting/hindering assumes detachment. It comes so easily to you, I don't think you realize quite how difficult it is to get there for those of us who don't find it natural. There is a how involved in stepping back to even see that the feelings are getting in the way.

Well, that's one of my biggest personal learning goal, being introspective about own feelings, rather than translating it through Ti first, so I have my own battles with Fi (the opposite of you guys, not enough!).

But, if I could compare your Fi to my Ti (although, by the very nature of Fi versus Ti means the latter allows readier detachment)...but, say, if I see that my Ti-ing in a situation is hindering, I know I consciously recognize in myself, I'm being too narrow/precise with the step by step details of A to Z, which is making me bitchy, etc., and then I know I consciously choose to keep going that route (because whatever evaluation of mine has concluded it's worth more than not using Ti), or, defer to other, like my tertiary gets jumped up, Fe.

Maybe this is where you need to really bring your Te out of the 'childlike' (not as readily within your control) state, so that, in such situations, it can take over the Fi?

Not silence the Fi, just allow Te to be more prominent so it messes with some of the noise of Fi, making it less readable, hence, reliable, thus, 'tricking' yourself to not put as much weight on the Fi?

Meh...dunno if that made sense.

 

[ergophobe]

Well, that's one of my biggest personal learning goal, being introspective about own feelings, rather than translating it through Ti first, so I have my own battles with Fi (the opposite of you guys, not enough!).

But, if I could compare your Fi to my Ti (although, by the very nature of Fi versus Ti means the latter allows readier detachment)...but, say, if I see that my Ti-ing in a situation is hindering, I know I consciously recognize in myself, I'm being too narrow/precise with the step by step details of A to Z, which is making me bitchy, etc., and then I know I consciously choose to keep going that route (because whatever evaluation of mine has concluded it's worth more than not using Ti), or, defer to other, like my tertiary gets jumped up, Fe.

Maybe this is where you need to really bring your Te out of the 'childlike' (not as readily within your control) state, so that, in such situations, it can take over the Fi?

Not silence the Fi, just allow Te to be more prominent so it messes with some of the noise of Fi, making it less readable, hence, reliable, thus, 'tricking' yourself to not put as much weight on the Fi?

Meh...dunno if that made sense.

I think I understand what you are saying. Yes, the ability to use thinking successfully is a huge part of being able to do this. I'm just now getting familiar with the cognitive functions so I mix them up a lot (this emerged in our PMs as well) -- I don't always get the difference between the introverted and extroverted functions. Applied to feeling, this seems obvious to me. For thinking, how would using Ti and Te differ in this case?

I almost wish we could have this conversation in person and that beer was involved. I would have enjoyed having this conversation in person. Also, Kristen Wiig on SNL doing her Bjork impression is really distracting me right now.

 

[Qre:us]

(I'm watching "Most Haunted", roomie pick of TV show as I've had remote control for most of the day...and haven't moved from the couch really all day, writing [trying, key word] my manuscript...ah, beer would have been just perfect)

 

[Amargith]

Que:rus, I think that that is actually what happens when our Fi doesn't get triggered. We're able to understand at that point that someone has a a problem with a specific situation, and hopefully they explained us why, therefore we skip right to Te and go: how can I change this around and give us both what we want.

In order to do this when feedback is given in a way that does anger Fi, we need a minute to cool off and step back. Oddly, I find I can do this almost instantly with emotions that overwhelm Fi but where I'm alone. For instance, if I'm overwhelmed by jealousy, I'm so used to deal with that by now that that in most cases it takes me not even a second to disarm it. Why? Coz I don't need to talk to anyone else or explain it to anyone. There is no timepressure in which to respond to another person. And if it doesn't work, nobody will notice, as I'll withdraw from interaction till I've got it taken care of, which means that you don't have to sort it out within a certain timeframe. So detaching is not that hard, and you become quite skilled at.

I guess the real challenge for us is to do this with defensiveness as well. Catch it as it comes in, and before it actually does damage, immediately classify as to where it comes from, why it's there and see what we can do with it. Not that easy

 

[Amargith]

Ah, I prefer 'cookie' feedback myself.

Actually, your feedback seems like pretty good, non-ENFP only advice. Thanks for sharing.

I'm glad you find it useful. I got it an a course specifically geared towards consultants dealing with clients, but it's pretty much applicable in all human interaction, I find. It's not as easy as it looks to adhere to it, but the difference in response you get when you do put in the effort is well worth it, ime.


@ the cookie variant

 

[substitute]

I agree that Amargith's feedback rules are a good general guide for dealing with pretty much any type of person...

What do you do though, when you are making a conscious effort to go by those rules, particularly the one about not saying "you do this" but rather "I feel that...", but the person you're talking to just puts their own subtitles under whatever you say? As in, you say "I feel that it's very difficult to disagree with you" and they, being naturally defensive the minute they get a whiff of criticism, hear that as "you're an asshole"?

Or when you say "I feel very frustrated and a little hurt, and like I have no power over what we do or where we go when you're around" and they read that as "you're too bossy and pushy and never let me have a say in what we do"?

Because really, you can say "I feel" as much as you like, but that's what it amounts to isn't it? If it's "I feel unhappy and it's related to the way you and I interact" then inherently it is criticism of their behaviour, isn't it? And, right enough, you're not necessarily saying that you believe this makes them a bad person, just perhaps mistaken over something or having a blind spot about something. But I've very often gone out of my way to say to an ENFP that I'm quite aware that I could simply have misperceived them and that I'm just telling them how I feel so that they can tell me if I've just got them wrong or whatever, and they STILL take it super personally and blow up and get super defensive.

 

[Little Linguist]

I agree that Amargith's feedback rules are a good general guide for dealing with pretty much any type of person...

What do you do though, when you are making a conscious effort to go by those rules, particularly the one about not saying "you do this" but rather "I feel that...", but the person you're talking to just puts their own subtitles under whatever you say? As in, you say "I feel that it's very difficult to disagree with you" and they, being naturally defensive the minute they get a whiff of criticism, hear that as "you're an asshole"?

Or when you say "I feel very frustrated and a little hurt, and like I have no power over what we do or where we go when you're around" and they read that as "you're too bossy and pushy and never let me have a say in what we do"?

Because really, you can say "I feel" as much as you like, but that's what it amounts to isn't it? If it's "I feel unhappy and it's related to the way you and I interact" then inherently it is criticism of their behaviour, isn't it? And, right enough, you're not necessarily saying that you believe this makes them a bad person, just perhaps mistaken over something or having a blind spot about something. But I've very often gone out of my way to say to an ENFP that I'm quite aware that I could simply have misperceived them and that I'm just telling them how I feel so that they can tell me if I've just got them wrong or whatever, and they STILL take it super personally and blow up and get super defensive.

Okay, I'm not trying to be a jerk here or picky, but if that is not what you mean by that, what do you mean exactly? Perhaps being a bit more precise in your language can help? Again, not trying to be an asshole here, but I do not know what else one *could* read from that???

 

[ergophobe]

What do you do though, when you are making a conscious effort to go by those rules, particularly the one about not saying "you do this" but rather "I feel that...", but the person you're talking to just puts their own subtitles under whatever you say? As in, you say "I feel that it's very difficult to disagree with you" and they, being naturally defensive the minute they get a whiff of criticism, hear that as "you're an asshole"?

Or when you say "I feel very frustrated and a little hurt, and like I have no power over what we do or where we go when you're around" and they read that as "you're too bossy and pushy and never let me have a say in what we do"?

Because really, you can say "I feel" as much as you like, but that's what it amounts to isn't it? If it's "I feel unhappy and it's related to the way you and I interact" then inherently it is criticism of their behaviour, isn't it? And, right enough, you're not necessarily saying that you believe this makes them a bad person, just perhaps mistaken over something or having a blind spot about something. But I've very often gone out of my way to say to an ENFP that I'm quite aware that I could simply have misperceived them and that I'm just telling them how I feel so that they can tell me if I've just got them wrong or whatever, and they STILL take it super personally and blow up and get super defensive.

I'm not sure if you wrote with the aim of getting ENFP advice or more with the goal of continuing the discussion and providing those instances as examples. I'll assume the former and say below:

1. It would probably work better if you actually provided a concrete example first and made it about one or two concrete events that trigger that feeling in you instead of just the blanket feeling -- 'I feel like I don't have control over what we do'. I think providing the concrete example first and following it up with the feeling helps. Example: 'You continuing to drive when I really wanted to go back as did the other people in the car made me feel like....' would help and not make it just about a personality flaw, even if it may be one in this case, an inability to incorporate others' opinions/preferences.
2. Bring things up soon after they happen. Waiting makes ENFPs think you are harboring resentment and makes us more likely to take things personally.
3. Even if the person takes things badly at that time, perhaps bring it up later and ask if they'd like to continue the discussion. Having some time to think over things, they would probably be more inclined to discuss things calmly and rationally.

If you've done all of the above and still find poor resolution, I really think your ENFP needs to do their own work. They have to think it's important to find resolution with you too and recognize their own problem areas. There's not much else you can do without them having taken that step.

 

[Lady_X]

this is really interesting to me because i've never really analyzed it before but yeah...if it feels like a big deal...approached with anger or too much emotion of any kind it makes it seem like some big issue which perhaps makes us take it more personally...i don't know what that is or why but i can even take not nice blunt better if it seems to be not a big deal....what the hell is that? i don't know.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Sheesh. And they say INFJs are too much work.

 

[Lady_X]

Sheesh. And they say INFJs are too much work.

yeah...it sounds like it from these last few pages but really not...not at all. i think most of us are super chill and easy to get a long with and our communication skills help us resolve most issues easily. it's really not a big deal...the things i'm talking about are mostly about petty house chores so...i guess it just depends on if you think those issues are a big deal or not....i don't.