[INTJ] Good INTJ Profile

[highlander]

I really liked this INTJ Profile.

 

[Annihilation]

My problems with it:

"INTJs are analytical problem-solvers"
INTJs aren't analytical (Ti). They are literally the exact opposite. INTJs reason synthetically (Ni).

"Popular hobbies for the INTJ include... appreciating art"
INTJs are not sensers, and thus typically struggle to understand why anyone is interested in art. They often see the majority of art as an inefficient (Te) waste of time.

"On personality trait measures, score as... Self-Confident"
INTJs are self-aware of their strengths and weaknesses (Ni), and they are negativists. As such, they're very rarely self-confident because they criticise themselves a lot. They also have weak Se, giving them a very gentle (albeit cold) presence as opposed to the commanding and alpha presence of an ESTP.

"Personal values include Achievement"
This is an enneagram type 3. It's completely irrelevant to MBTI.

"They are curious about the world around them and often want to know the principle behind what they see."
Logical principles are Ti.

 

[chubber]

My personal Achilles heel.

INTJs as Partners

In relationships, the INTJ is loyal but independent. INTJs can be almost scientific in choosing a mate and make devoted partners once they have found a match that fits their rigorous list of requirements. They often have clear ideas about what makes for a solid relationship and are unwavering in their pursuit of this ideal.

INTJs often have a passion for self-improvement and are encouraging of their partners' goals and intellectual pursuits. However, they do not usually see the need for frivolous affection or romance, feeling that their devotion should be evident. They are more focused on serving their partners with hard work and resourceful problem-solving than they are on showering them with attention.

INTJs' partners often find them difficult to read, and indeed they do not show emotion easily; they find the process of discussing emotions much too messy and disorganized. They enjoy solving difficult problems, but are often out of their depth when it comes to illogical, unpredictable personal issues.

INTJs value a partner that allows them the independence to achieve their goals, and one who appreciates their efficacy, insight, and ability to offer creative solutions to problems.



Read more: Profile of the INTJ Personality Type | TypeFinder Profile of the INTJ Personality Type | TypeFinder
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Even members on here were baffled why I couldn't see it or "do the work". What does that even mean?

 

[Ene]

My problems with it:

"INTJs are analytical problem-solvers"
INTJs aren't analytical (Ti). They are literally the exact opposite. INTJs reason synthetically (Ni).

"Popular hobbies for the INTJ include... appreciating art"
INTJs are not sensers, and thus typically struggle to understand why anyone is interested in art. They often see the majority of art as an inefficient (Te) waste of time.

"On personality trait measures, score as... Self-Confident"
INTJs are self-aware of their strengths and weaknesses (Ni), and they are negativists. As such, they're very rarely self-confident because they criticise themselves a lot. They also have weak Se, giving them a very gentle (albeit cold) presence as opposed to the commanding and alpha presence of an ESTP.

"Personal values include Achievement"
This is an enneagram type 3. It's completely irrelevant to MBTI.

"They are curious about the world around them and often want to know the principle behind what they see."
Logical principles are Ti.

I'm curious. Are these, or oart of these, shared perception of other INTJs here?

Also, [MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION] regarding the bolder, that's why every INTJ needs a telepath or an empath on his or her starship

 

[Coriolis]

I'm curious. Are these, or oart of these, shared perception of other INTJs here?

See comments in bold in the quote block.

My problems with it:

"INTJs are analytical problem-solvers"
INTJs aren't analytical (Ti). They are literally the exact opposite. INTJs reason synthetically (Ni).
This is just MBTI theory, and strictly correct. We give others the impression of being analytical because the external expression of our solutions is strongly influenced by Te..

"Popular hobbies for the INTJ include... appreciating art"
INTJs are not sensers, and thus typically struggle to understand why anyone is interested in art. They often see the majority of art as an inefficient (Te) waste of time.
Disagree. I suspect INTJs appreciate art as much as other types, though often different types of art, and in different ways. We are not dom/aux sensors, but do have inf Se which can run amok due to poor conscious use, or better, work with our tert Fi to fuel our aesthetic sense and provide much needed balance to Ni/Te.

"On personality trait measures, score as... Self-Confident"
INTJs are self-aware of their strengths and weaknesses (Ni), and they are negativists. As such, they're very rarely self-confident because they criticise themselves a lot. They also have weak Se, giving them a very gentle (albeit cold) presence as opposed to the commanding and alpha presence of an ESTP.
Disagree. It has been said that our main criterion is "does it work". While it is true that we are as critical of ourself as of others (sometimes moreso), we get substantial positive feedback from our accomplishments, from the fact that our plans and devices usually do work, often spectacularly so. We will feel considerably less confidence in situations well outside our expertise, often social or romantic encounters, but even there can figure out how to approach the situations from our strengths, allowing us to remain confident.

"Personal values include Achievement"
This is an enneagram type 3. It's completely irrelevant to MBTI.
The enneagram comment is valid. As with the art question, though, I would say many types value achievement, they just differ in what they want to achieve. All TJs seem to have a drive to get things done, so in that sense, we probably value achievement more than many of the types.

"They are curious about the world around them and often want to know the principle behind what they see."
Logical principles are Ti.
I would say instead that we are curious about the world around us and want to understand how things work.

Also, [MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION] regarding the bolder, that's why every INTJ needs a telepath or an empath on his or her starship

Some of us get by just fine without one.

 

[highlander]

My problems with it:

"INTJs are analytical problem-solvers"
INTJs aren't analytical (Ti). They are literally the exact opposite. INTJs reason synthetically (Ni).

"Popular hobbies for the INTJ include... appreciating art"
INTJs are not sensers, and thus typically struggle to understand why anyone is interested in art. They often see the majority of art as an inefficient (Te) waste of time.

"On personality trait measures, score as... Self-Confident"
INTJs are self-aware of their strengths and weaknesses (Ni), and they are negativists. As such, they're very rarely self-confident because they criticise themselves a lot. They also have weak Se, giving them a very gentle (albeit cold) presence as opposed to the commanding and alpha presence of an ESTP.

"Personal values include Achievement"
This is an enneagram type 3. It's completely irrelevant to MBTI.

"They are curious about the world around them and often want to know the principle behind what they see."
Logical principles are Ti.

On analytical problem solving, I think yes you are right but you are also wrong. We are analytical. I certainly am. It's not in the way a Ti dom is but I am most certainly a person who analyzes things a lot.

On art, I perhaps disagree. Different people like different things. Though I appreciate it now, I was never big into paintings or sculptures and stuff when I was younger. I have always deeply appreciated music though as well as great movies. This is art. Plays kind of bore me. Writing is art and I really appreciate well written books. I know an INTJ who has an extensive and expensive art collection - paintings and stuff.

You are right about the self-criticizing part. However, when it comes down to things that we know and our realm of expertise or experience, we are quite confident in ourselves.

With respect to Achievement, again, I disagree. Using myself as an example, I have always been highly driven to achieve with a focus on outcomes and results. It is probably one of my strongest attributes since the time I was a small child. I was driven in school to achieve. I was driven in my job to progress. I remember playing basketball until the tips of my fingers broke open and were bleeding because I so much wanted to get good at it (I didn't succeed in that one). I am not an enneagram 3. I am a 6. Outside of myself, I believe it is also demonstrated that INTJs do quite well in school. Many become scientists, executives, lawyers, etc. Some have become US presidents.

With respect to being curious - I think we are. With respect to wanting to know the principle behind what they see, it may depend on how you define principle. You added the word "logical". Adding that word, I agree that sounds Ti-like. However, we do want to know what is behind things. The why. The core insights. Does that get to principles? If not, then what?

 

[chubber]

I'm curious. Are these, or oart of these, shared perception of other INTJs here?

Also, [MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION] regarding the bolder, that's why every INTJ needs a telepath or an empath on his or her starship

The irony is, I need to hunt them. So if I am hiding somewhere then I won't get the opportunity to find them.

On analytical problem solving, I think yes you are right but you are also wrong. We are analytical. I certainly am. It's not in the way a Ti dom is but I am most certainly a person who analyzes things a lot.

On art, I perhaps disagree. Different people like different things. Though I appreciate it now, I was never big into paintings or sculptures and stuff when I was younger. I have always deeply appreciated music though as well as great movies. This is art. Plays kind of bore me. Writing is art and I really appreciate well written books. I know an INTJ who has an extensive and expensive art collection - paintings and stuff.

You are right about the self-criticizing part. However, when it comes down to things that we know and our realm of expertise or experience, we are quite confident in ourselves.

With respect to Achievement, again, I disagree. Using myself as an example, I have always been highly driven to achieve with a focus on outcomes and results. It is probably one of my strongest attributes since the time I was a small child. I was driven in school to achieve. I was driven in my job to progress. I remember playing basketball until the tips of my fingers broke open and were bleeding because I so much wanted to get good at it (I didn't succeed in that one). I am not an enneagram 3. I am a 6. Outside of myself, I believe it is also demonstrated that INTJs do quite well in school. Many become scientists, executives, lawyers, etc. Some have become US presidents.

With respect to being curious - I think we are. With respect to wanting to know the principle behind what they see, it may depend on how you define principle. You added the word "logical". Adding that word, I agree that sounds Ti-like. However, we do want to know what is behind things. The why. The core insights. Does that get to principles? If not, then what?

I had ideas for art, but it never panned out.
I learned to appreciate red wine. Although I always seem to end up picking the wrong type for myself.
Always enjoyed different kinds of music compared to the norm.

I am very analytical, dancing is a nightmare for me, because I "think too much". It's good when I have to analyse a problem, looking at the problem from the inside out. Where as I find others would generally look from the outside in. But then again, I always tell them a phrase a heard somewhere, that to dig a tunnel quicker, dig it from both sides.

Some of us get by just fine without one.

Would you agree that female teenagers get more exposure compared to teenage boys left to their own devices to socialising? Mother hen seems to come to mind.

 

[Coriolis]

Would you agree that female teenagers get more exposure compared to teenage boys left to their own devices to socialising? Mother hen seems to come to mind.

I'm not sure what you mean, especially about the mother hen. Females who are ostracised or just don't fit in don't get many social opportunities. I would suspect males actually get more, if only through sports or clubs, etc. Cattiness and cliquishness seems to pervade (predominantly) female teams and clubs moreso than male, but then not growing up male, this is mostly speculation.

 

[chubber]

I'm not sure what you mean, especially about the mother hen. Females who are ostracised or just don't fit in don't get many social opportunities. I would suspect males actually get more, if only through sports or clubs, etc. Cattiness and cliquishness seems to pervade (predominantly) female teams and clubs moreso than male, but then not growing up male, this is mostly speculation.

How was your life experience?

What I have read was this:

Girls definitely don’t have it easy, but we have one distinct advantage. The female gender role encourages nurturing behavior, and an emotional openness that is actively discouraged in little boys. A friendly girl may see a socially awkward lonely girl and go over and say hi. This mother hen will befriend the lonely girl who can’t take the active role, and even introduce her to others, eventually building relationships for the person who couldn’t have done it alone. It’s not that boys don’t want to do this, or are somehow less kind than girls, it’s that the way they are raised discourages this type of behavior, which is usually considered motherly. In girls, this is actively encouraged.

So, I was wondering if what I have read, relates to why you say, that you don't need help and that it relates to your gender and the gender roles in society that helped you get that edge. Not implying that your life got it good and mine got it bad. Just wondering if there is a link.

 

[Ene]

Some of us get by just fine without one.

Well, all right. I'm sure you really are just fine.


Thank you all for responding. I was curious, because the INTJ in my life really does appreciate art. He has commissioned several pieces. He doesn't paint but he values art.

He knows what he's good at it and is confident in that. I thought much of the profile seemed to fit.

Also, some of you may remember a few months ago when I told you that he had split with his wife after she had cheated on him and told him that he was emotionally not there for her. When I read the profile and at [MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION]'s reply, I thought how that, at least in part, it might be true.

 

[Coriolis]

How was your life experience?

What I have read was this:

Girls definitely don’t have it easy, but we have one distinct advantage. The female gender role encourages nurturing behavior, and an emotional openness that is actively discouraged in little boys. A friendly girl may see a socially awkward lonely girl and go over and say hi. This mother hen will befriend the lonely girl who can’t take the active role, and even introduce her to others, eventually building relationships for the person who couldn’t have done it alone. It’s not that boys don’t want to do this, or are somehow less kind than girls, it’s that the way they are raised discourages this type of behavior, which is usually considered motherly. In girls, this is actively encouraged.

So, I was wondering if what I have read, relates to why you say, that you don't need help and that it relates to your gender and the gender roles in society that helped you get that edge. Not implying that your life got it good and mine got it bad. Just wondering if there is a link.

Where did you read this quote? I have seen similar theories. They are reasonable to a point, namely that different types will respond differently to social expectations like gender roles, with INTJs (and often other NTs) more likely to reject or rebel against them than to embrace and follow them. I do disagree, though, that a socially awkward girl is more likely than her male counterpart to be included by some kindly peer. Boys' interactions tend to be more activity-based (playing a game, building with legos), girls' interactions are more relationship based (chatting, gossip). This makes it much easier for a boy to reach out to a newcomer - as simple as proffering the bat, or a handful of legos. He can get away without any real show of emotion, and doesn't even need to say anything.

I hesitate to focus on my own experience since it necessarily anecdotal, but since you asked: I never experienced the "mother hen" behavior you describe, whether on the giving or receiving end. I don't remember being encouraged to be nurturing or emotionally open (nor was I discouraged from it), but neither quality is in my nature, and perhaps my parents simply realized this early on and decided not to force the issue. They did expect and encourage me to be polite, honest, responsible, and to have a good work ethic - good qualities for anyone, and well attuned to my own expectations for myself. Much of what they considered politeness did seem stupid to me as a child, but even there I have always had a natural tendency toward basic courtesy, perhaps because it can be an effective tool in maintaining interpersonal distance.

I'm not sure what you mean by gender roles in society helping me get an edge. First, I don't know that I have an edge; second, I have never paid gender roles much heed, at least consciously. Any edge I do have comes from a combination of analysis, detachment, and simple choice of personal priorities. When you really don't care what anyone thinks or expects, the social landscape simplifies considerably.

Well, all right. I'm sure you really are just fine.

Yes, I don't need an empath around; but they certainly can bring additional positive dimensions to life. (I was partially just yanking your chain.)

 

[chubber]

Where did you read this quote? I have seen similar theories. They are reasonable to a point, namely that different types will respond differently to social expectations like gender roles, with INTJs (and often other NTs) more likely to reject or rebel against them than to embrace and follow them. I do disagree, though, that a socially awkward girl is more likely than her male counterpart to be included by some kindly peer. Boys' interactions tend to be more activity-based (playing a game, building with legos), girls' interactions are more relationship based (chatting, gossip). This makes it much easier for a boy to reach out to a newcomer - as simple as proffering the bat, or a handful of legos. He can get away without any real show of emotion, and doesn't even need to say anything.

I can relate to the reject and rebelling of social expectations. I however didn't experience it the way you described boys. I was simply the social outcast in every instance and only made friends with the other outcasts. That would go for both genders, boys preferred sports and girls preferred to be katty/snobs. I always ended up talking to adults because they were the ones that were bored too and seek conversation and I loved to ask questions.

I read it from an article about the discrepancies of the diagnoses between boys and girls for Aspergers. Why the diagnoses for girls are much lower than for boys. Although this article doesn't seem to be related at all. I was simply speculating.

I hesitate to focus on my own experience since it necessarily anecdotal, but since you asked: I never experienced the "mother hen" behavior you describe, whether on the giving or receiving end. I don't remember being encouraged to be nurturing or emotionally open (nor was I discouraged from it), but neither quality is in my nature, and perhaps my parents simply realized this early on and decided not to force the issue. They did expect and encourage me to be polite, honest, responsible, and to have a good work ethic - good qualities for anyone, and well attuned to my own expectations for myself. Much of what they considered politeness did seem stupid to me as a child, but even there I have always had a natural tendency toward basic courtesy, perhaps because it can be an effective tool in maintaining interpersonal distance.

Supportive parents, good for self confidence/esteem and for your individuality.

I'm not sure what you mean by gender roles in society helping me get an edge. First, I don't know that I have an edge; second, I have never paid gender roles much heed, at least consciously. Any edge I do have comes from a combination of analysis, detachment, and simple choice of personal priorities. When you really don't care what anyone thinks or expects, the social landscape simplifies considerably.

Your logical approach seems to work for you.

 

[Ene]

[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION]

Yes, I don't need an empath around; but they certainly can bring additional positive dimensions to life. (I was partially just yanking your chain.)

Could you use a telepath? I hear they are a great asset as well, so long as their ability doesn't go to their heads. (Do not be concerned. I have been known to rattle a chain or two myself from time to time.)