Flirting with Veganism, (not Vaginas) and/or Eating Healthy/Organic (not Virgins).

[CzeCze]

I think if you wanna be vegan you have to have a firm reason why otherwise you never fully go vegan. If you don't care about being a strict vegan, than it's fine and fun to flirt with it. Vegan baked goods are either too dry or too moist but there is a way to make vegan gluten free cookies very tasty because they basically taste like cookie dough.

With veganism, you have to make sure a very good chef prepares the food unless you want to stick with very simple meals. When I cook my meals are very simple - lots of kale, tomatoes, onions, fake cheese, sometimes okra, sometimes corn, sometimes some grain like wheat bread/noodles/rice or sweet potatoes.

I've lived with some fantastic vegan cooks before so I know vegan food can be very tasty and many meat/veggie recipes can be replicated.

 

[kevrawlings]

Veganism is unhealthy.

 

[Synarch]

Veganism is unhealthy.

You will have to be more specific. I was recently reading an article about how the vegan diet and its low protein aspects is actually very good at creating a particular hormone that has been tied to life extension. IG4 I think it was called.

/meat eater

 

[kevrawlings]

repost (and this is basic, well know stuff here, not some arcane article about a particular hormone):

Plant protein has very low bio-availabilty. This means that you're body can't use it nearly as efficiently as animal protein. This is science fact. Bill Walton was Vegetarian and was constantly set back with injuries because of his diet low in animal protein. Travis Barker, after his plane crash, was told by the doctors that he needed to eat meat to heal faster. He did, and he said that he felt much, much better for it. Basically, the ethics of a veggie diet are noble, but if you plan on putting any kind of stress on your body - you'd better be eating some animals.

Also, being the daredevil ISTP that I am, I used to jump off of a lot of things on my skateboard. When I was vegan, I was emaciated, and my scars healed terribly.

 

[Synarch]

repost (and this is basic, well know stuff here, not some arcane article about a particular hormone):

Plant protein has very low bio-availabilty. This means that you're body can't use it nearly as efficiently as animal protein. This is science fact. Bill Walton was Vegetarian and was constantly set back with injuries because of his diet low in animal protein. Travis Barker, after his plane crash, was told by the doctors that he needed to eat meat to heal faster. He did, and he said that he felt much, much better for it. Basically, the ethics of a veggie diet are noble, but if you plan on putting any kind of stress on your body - you'd better be eating some animals.

You're citing anecdotes. Not scientific evidence. I am quite confident that our vegetarian/vegan brethren can muster an equally superficial counter-argument and marshal similar although completely opposite anecdotes.

/proud carnivore

 

[kevrawlings]

Man, I'm not gonna go diggin around finding evidence of this for you. Ask your doctor. It's common knowledge. Eat soy all day and let yourself turn into an emaciated, yellow, Simpsons character that heals slower than usual. Viva La Revolucion!

 

[Synarch]

Sounds like you have the definitive answers. My compliments on your certitude.

 

[kevrawlings]

Oh geez, gettin all Spock on me. I'm a former amateur bodybuilder and year long vegan. I've done a tremendous amount of independent research on this. Veganism is simply foolish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_(nutrient)

"The biological value of plant protein sources is usually considerably lower than animal sources." - Wiki

Like I said, common knowledge.

 

[burymecloser]

Didn't say there was one, just that you don't have to cut meat out of your diet to have that kind of a healthy diet, but it should be limited.
...
Again, I made no claims to the contrary. All I am saying is that the propaganda peddled by groups like PETA that people need to cut meat entirely out of their diet in order for it to be healthy is complete and total bullshit. Yes, too much meat is bad, but meat can be consumed in healthy portions, and a meat-eater, if eating a well-balanced diet, can be every bit as healthy, if not more so, than a vegan or a vegetarian of similar age, physical constitution and activity levels.

Apparently I misinterpreted you. It seemed to me that you were making claims to the contrary:

Lots of vegetables, some meat, eat local. Amen.

From a dietary perspective this post makes the most sense.

To me, writing that lots of vegetables with some meat "makes the most sense" implies that it, well, makes the most sense -- that any other diet choice is less healthy. It seems like a strange way of simply arguing that meat can be part of a healthy diet.

Sounds like you have the definitive answers. My compliments on your certitude.

 

[Edasich]

• View topic - Vegan athletes <- some vegan athletes there

I've been vegan since I was 14/15 and I'm fine. The problem is that veganism is still pretty new, and so there aren't going to be comprehensive studies on 80 year olds who have been vegan their whole life. The majority of vegans I know are under 30 years old. The oldest vegans I know are in their 70s and have been vegan for many, many years, and when they first went vegan were told that they would be dead very soon by people who are now deceased.

I think you can be healthy on a meat-eating diet, a vegetarian diet, and a vegan diet, provided you do it right. However I do feel a lot less clogged up now that I'm vegan. If I had to pick the healthiest diet tho, i'd probably say the raw food diet. The raw foodists I know glow. They look so healthy. And i feel my best when I'm eating significantly more fruit and veges. But god I love cooked food LOL


Anyway, regarding yummy food :

I love sweet n sour tofu, falafel, tom yum soup...nom nom nom. One dish I make which always seems to be popular with meat eaters is this kumara-pineapple dish. Just mix together a tin of blended up pineapple with mashed kumara, sprinkle bread crumbs on top with a little bit of olive oil, then bake for 20 minutes or so, and wa-la. It's super quick and easy to make and tastes yum. My last flatmate loved to cook, and he made amazing vegan blondies and vegan ice cream cake. I really miss his food.

 

[kevrawlings]

It's great for cardiovascular health, but as far as regenerative ability, if you plan on putting any stress on your body, you'll need animal protein to repair it.

 

[Synarch]

Oh geez, gettin all Spock on me. I'm a former amateur bodybuilder and year long vegan. I've done a tremendous amount of independent research on this. Veganism is simply foolish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_(nutrient)

"The biological value of plant protein sources is usually considerably lower than animal sources." - Wiki

Like I said, common knowledge.

Yes, but your original thesis is that a vegan diet is unhealthy, not that plants have lower quantities of protein, which is seemingly rather obvious as plants tend to lack such protein-rich structures as muscle tissue, etc. The issue of the bioavailability of protein in plants vs. animals is not enough to make a claim that a vegan diet is unhealthy. Veganism being unhealthy is your claim, yes?

In practice, the diets of most meat-eating Americans are significantly more unhealthy and detrimental to the health than the diet of your garden variety (pardon the pun) vegan. Would you agree with that? At the very least, one could expect Vegans to be more conscious of the health effects of food vs. the meat-eating default individual.

But, nonetheless, I could argue vigorously each side. It's what I do. My main point, to the degree that I have one, is that you have failed to sufficiently make your case. All I need to do is point out the weaknesses in your argument to keep your argument from being determinative.

 

[Synarch]

It's great for cardiovascular health, but as far as regenerative ability, if you plan on putting any stress on your body, you'll need animal protein to repair it.

How do plant eating mammals repair their muscle tissues?

 

[chooi]

I suspect you would argue that Krispy Kreme Bacon Cheeseburgers are healthier than a mixed green salad.

Is it wrong that I kinda wanna eat that?

 

[Synarch]

Is it wrong that I kinda wanna eat that?

In nature, fat and sugars are precious commodities and calorie rich. So, your animal nature is attracted to it. Unfortunately, with the abundance of food this animal nature is killing us.

 

[kevrawlings]

Look man, I'm not a lawyer, and I pride myself on that. I'm not some pedantic Socratic rhetorician who gets a hard-on off of trying to sound formally educated. I'm just trying to keep people reading this from making the same mistakes that I've made. The problem isn't meat in the Western diet - it's that everybody eats way, way, WAY too much. I presently have 8 percent body fat, and am 210 lbs. at 6'6''. I know a great deal about nutrition. I'm just putting the truth out there.

Also, my argument is clearly determinative. Plant protein is not used nearly as efficiently, and I cited evidence of the claim. Come to think of it, I don't care if people reading this take my advice or not. I am in exceptionally great physical shape because of my research and knowledge. The proof is in the puddin'. I can live with going out in public and seeing sickly, unhealthy people wandering around with their own wrong-headed opinions about what is or isn't healthy.

 

[kevrawlings]

How do plant eating mammals repair their muscle tissues?

They absorb nutrients completely differently, smart guy.

 

[chooi]

Yes, but your original thesis is that a vegan diet is unhealthy, not that plants have lower quantities of protein, which is seemingly rather obvious as plants tend to lack such protein-rich structures as muscle tissue, etc. The issue of the bioavailability of protein in plants vs. animals is not enough to make a claim that a vegan diet is unhealthy. Veganism being unhealthy is your claim, yes?

Yeah, I was under the impression that "beans and rice" type meals (almost the only thing I eat at mexican places) are pretty much the most "complete" food. Is that not true? Although, I don't skimp on the sour cream and cheese, so def not vegan.

 

[chooi]

Also, I think that there's a lot to be said about our preparation of meat and the industry surrounding it worldwide, but especially in the US. So, although the meat might not be too bad for you inherently, there's also lots of other shit in it as well.

 

[Synarch]

Look man, I'm not a lawyer, and I pride myself on that. I'm not some pedantic Socratic rhetorician who gets a hard-on off of trying to sound formally educated. I'm just trying to keep people reading this from making the same mistakes that I've made. The problem isn't meat in the Western diet - it's that everybody eats way, way, WAY too much. I presently have 8 percent body fat, and am 210 lbs. at 6'6''. I know a great deal about nutrition. I'm just putting the truth out there.

Also, my argument is clearly determinative. Plant protein is not used nearly as efficiently, and I cited evidence of the claim. Come to think of it, I don't care if people reading this take my advice or not. I am in exceptionally great physical shape because of my research and knowledge. The proof is in the puddin'. I can live with going out in public and seeing sickly, unhealthy people wandering around with their own wrong-headed opinions about what is or isn't healthy.

You are truly an impressive physical specimen. That alone is enough to give me a hard-on.

Your point about overeating is well-taken. Carry on with the good fight, friend. I wish you luck and good health. You seem very reasonable to me.

/your resident humble pedantic Socratic rhetorician