[ESTP] Finding fulfilling work: The JOB

[small.wonder]

Hey ESTP brethren (and sistahs), what in the world do you guys do for a living? PS - I also tagged plenty of 7w8's who may not be ESTPs because their perspective pertains to the personal reason I'm asking. ↓

I am very close to a 7w8 ESTP who is a little disillusioned with the whole concept of work, and I'm curious as to how you guys usually settle that. By all means, it makes total sense that it would be hard for you to settle with one thing, or find our culture's definition of "work" to be at all satisfying, so what do you do? The bloke in question has hopped around quite a bit-- he worked for and traveled with a circus in his young twenties, moved cross country once for about a year to help a buddy build houses (and all sorts of other manual labor) but for most of his life (in between) has worked for his family's auto shop. The truth, though, is that he hates it. The guy is miserable. He's made comments about wanting to win the lottery so he doesn't have to work, and once, when I asked him what his dreams were, he said a beach.

He's a smart guy, very physically capable, and has a lot of leadership-oriented qualities. I guess I'm of the mind that the point of life is not to just do work, but to find something you are really passionate about and do that. FTR, I am a person that he listens to and seeks out, this is not about "what I want him to do" (I'm not an idiot). I just see his misery, and would love to suggest some other options to give him some hope.

TLDR? - Tell me what kind of work you (as an ESTP or 7w8) have found fulfilling-- specifically in regards to satisfying/utilizing Se.

[MENTION=1180]miss fortune[/MENTION] [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] [MENTION=12103]Poki[/MENTION] [MENTION=22067]riva[/MENTION] [MENTION=23098]Rico[/MENTION] [MENTION=25694]evilrubberduckie[/MENTION] [MENTION=22064]RedAmazoneFriendZone[/MENTION] [MENTION=24829]Masokissed[/MENTION] [MENTION=10550]Dr Mobius[/MENTION] [MENTION=25403]ZNP-TBA[/MENTION] etc.

 

[Poki]

i love hands on work. currently a computer programmer. other jobs i woupd consider...custom automotive for performance and audio/video. construction architect where i also build what i design.

beach would bore the shit outta me. i need canoes, jet skis, kayaks, jungles, physical stuff to do. toes in the water, ass in the sand is after i have exhausted myself and a break so i can go again. harder, faster, better

 

[miss fortune]

I work in shipping and in my position I do get a bit of freedom to change things and get things to run more efficiently and there are plenty of physical things to do... it's ok I guess... the benefits are good and they pay me

also have gotten a few unrelated degrees, got certifications in a few other things and have started schooling for something else

really, I doubt I'll ever be happy with having to go to work every week... not because I'm lazy, but because there's something about HAVING to do things that just makes them unappealing. if I had enough money that working was completely unnecessary and I could just follow my whims I'd probably just travel nonstop for the rest of my life so that I could see and experience new things and every day would be new

 

[The green spirit]

A racecar driver could be awesome job

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I'm actually changing my job. I'm working into energies, counselling, meditation advise, personal development, coaching, and dream analysis.

I'm realising my dream. But as life is just a dream within a dream.... I'll have many other dreams

I was fed up with my last job and was trying my best to develop my own business.

I'll have to be patient, like anything new... but the good point is I feel like a fish in the water I do what I really enjoy + I can finally work independently in a creative way.

I have never kept a job more than 1 year.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Hey ESTP brethren (and sistahs), what in the world do you guys do for a living? PS - I also tagged plenty of 7w8's who may not be ESTPs because their perspective pertains to the personal reason I'm asking. ↓

I am very close to a 7w8 ESTP who is a little disillusioned with the whole concept of work

How old is he if I may ask ? Many 7 and 8 (particularly the sx subtype) have been more than "just a little disillusioned".
For some 8, to feel happy, they must work without feeling control and pressure on their back.

If I feel I'm "at work" with all bullshit and constraints I'm not doing the job properly and can be terrible with authority.
Better have my own rules and work consciously than becoming a sociopath
For some 7 I guess the routine (depending of what is routine to them) should better be avoided.

As I said I was changing my job every year. My parents were going crazy when I was young.
I decided to move to England when I was 18. Then I came back to France to start university, I went back to England again the year after, then I came back to school....after I took my degree I was working in France, 1 year later I left my country again....and so on and on until my 26th birthday.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

He sounds like he might make a terrific cult leader.

 

[small.wonder]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, I realized shortly after posting this that my personal reasons for writing are moot point-- he'll do what he's going to do, stuck or not. I have however found your responses really interesting, and would love to hear more.

[MENTION=25403]ZNP-TBA[/MENTION] He would utterly suck at that, he repels most humans (I think on purpose?).

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

[MENTION=17697]small.wonder[/MENTION]

I wonder if what he hates about his job is a lack of freedom/control...not so much the job itself?

Does he bitch about the actual job duties or the rules of the workplace?

 

[1487610420]

Hey ESTP brethren (and sistahs), what in the world do you guys do for a living? PS - I also tagged plenty of 7w8's who may not be ESTPs because their perspective pertains to the personal reason I'm asking. ↓

I am very close to a 7w8 ESTP who is a little disillusioned with the whole concept of work, and I'm curious as to how you guys usually settle that. By all means, it makes total sense that it would be hard for you to settle with one thing, or find our culture's definition of "work" to be at all satisfying, so what do you do? The bloke in question has hopped around quite a bit-- he worked for and traveled with a circus in his young twenties, moved cross country once for about a year to help a buddy build houses (and all sorts of other manual labor) but for most of his life (in between) has worked for his family's auto shop. The truth, though, is that he hates it. The guy is miserable. He's made comments about wanting to win the lottery so he doesn't have to work, and once, when I asked him what his dreams were, he said a beach.

He's a smart guy, very physically capable, and has a lot of leadership-oriented qualities. I guess I'm of the mind that the point of life is not to just do work, but to find something you are really passionate about and do that. FTR, I am a person that he listens to and seeks out, this is not about "what I want him to do" (I'm not an idiot). I just see his misery, and would love to suggest some other options to give him some hope.

TLDR? - Tell me what kind of work you (as an ESTP or 7w8) have found fulfilling-- specifically in regards to satisfying/utilizing Se.

[MENTION=1180]miss fortune[/MENTION] [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] [MENTION=12103]Poki[/MENTION] [MENTION=22067]riva[/MENTION] [MENTION=23098]Rico[/MENTION] [MENTION=25694]evilrubberduckie[/MENTION] [MENTION=22064]RedAmazoneFriendZone[/MENTION] [MENTION=24829]Masokissed[/MENTION] [MENTION=10550]Dr Mobius[/MENTION] [MENTION=25403]ZNP-TBA[/MENTION] etc.

What's the real problem here? He seems to know how to be himself, ie: changing things around and experimenting, traveling, using natural Se skills, etc, so is it hating the family job that seems to be the in between lifeline? Why does he come back to it, ie if he hates it and has left-it when traveling etc. Or was it more of a running away from something?

I have doubts listing ESTP stereotype activities will help anything at all. From the limited info it seems more of a inner-self/therapy problem to find out what's really going on/holding him back.

 

[small.wonder]

[MENTION=17697]small.wonder[/MENTION]

I wonder if what he hates about his job is a lack of freedom/control...not so much the job itself?

Does he bitch about the actual job duties or the rules of the workplace?

What's the real problem here? He seems to know how to be himself, ie: changing things around and experimenting, traveling, using natural Se skills, etc, so is it hating the family job that seems to be the in between lifeline? Why does he come back to it, ie if he hates it and has left-it when traveling etc. Or was it more of a running away from something?

I have doubts listing ESTP stereotype activities will help anything at all. From the limited info it seems more of a inner-self/therapy problem to find out what's really going on/holding him back.

Diiiiiiiiiiing! We have ourselves some winners, you guys both hit the nail on the head regarding my friend. Sort of. Overall it is a lack of freedom, feeling held down thing.
I used to think that it was explicitly his family that caused this-- he has kind of negative relationships with his Dad and his older brother who are both involved in the workplace. After suggesting it several times over the last couple of years, I was shocked a couple of months ago when he left and started working for a buddy's auto shop about an hour away. I was so happy for him, and really thought this would change the dynamic and the way he feels about work.

I do think it has, but there is still an underlying trapped factor here. I've mentioned this fellow around here before (so this should sound familiar) but he's an ex-convict with a record that makes job hunting not the easiest thing-- in the end, this is the main problem that makes him keep coming back to his family. Frankly, he's needed them at times, and I know that he hates that. He does seem happier working elsewhere, but I still think he feels the limitation of not being able to just go anywhere and interview. He feels constantly indebted to people, which is what makes him a miserable person sometimes. He feels trapped.

Bravo to both of your insights!

 

[1487610420]

Diiiiiiiiiiing! We have ourselves some winners, you guys both hit the nail on the head regarding my friend. Sort of. Overall it is a lack of freedom, feeling held down thing.
I used to think that it was explicitly his family that caused this-- he has kind of negative relationships with his Dad and his older brother who are both involved in the workplace. After suggesting it several times over the last couple of years, I was shocked a couple of months ago when he left and started working for a buddy's auto shop about an hour away. I was so happy for him, and really thought this would change the dynamic and the way he feels about work.

I do think it has, but there is still an underlying trapped factor here. I've mentioned this fellow around here before (so this should sound familiar) but he's an ex-convict with a record that makes job hunting not the easiest thing-- in the end, this is the main problem that makes him keep coming back to his family. Frankly, he's needed them at times, and I know that he hates that. He does seem happier working elsewhere, but I still think he feels the limitation of not being able to just go anywhere and interview. He feels constantly indebted to people, which is what makes him a miserable person sometimes. He feels trapped.

Bravo to both of your insights!

Idk, you or nayone can help/fix him, I mean, support can help, insight, etc, but I think he needs to see it/there's also the backfire potential him feeling pushed/being told unfit etc, so trust/safety is paramount to begin looking at things and seeing some clarity. I'm also thinking Ti vs Te m.o., ie analyze vs take-action/fix/things, tho idk how SeTi helps/deals with that.

In an actual solution/plan of action line for solving the ex-convict/job interview opportunities issue, what comes to mind is entrepeneurship. There's google, but from youtube/gaming streaming, to idk, too-much to list, but the main reasoning would be to try to cross his interests/skills, maybe in the Se-hands on domain, to DO something iow build, fix, wtv, and use that to create content/share with the world & learn monetize (welcome to the age of internet bizz).

It can be pretty legit and there're examples of people doing that/but it's a grind, requires love/dedication and above all self-honesty. The internet doesn't take long to see through BS.

Now to be in a mental/personal place to be able to even begin looking at any of that...I'm not a therapist, so good luck there.

 

[small.wonder]

Idk, you or nayone can help/fix him, I mean, support can help, insight, etc, but I think he needs to see it/there's also the backfire potential him feeling pushed/being told unfit etc, so trust/safety is paramount to begin looking at things and seeing some clarity. I'm also thinking Ti vs Te m.o., ie analyze vs take-action/fix/things, tho idk how SeTi helps/deals with that.

In an actual solution/plan of action line for solving the ex-convict/job interview opportunities issue, what comes to mind is entrepeneurship. There's google, but from youtube/gaming streaming, to idk, too-much to list, but the main reasoning would be to try to cross his interests/skills, maybe in the Se-hands on domain, to DO something iow build, fix, wtv, and use that to create content/share with the world & learn monetize (welcome to the age of internet bizz).

It can be pretty legit and there're examples of people doing that/but it's a grind, requires love/dedication and above all self-honesty. The internet doesn't take long to see through BS.

Now to be in a mental/personal place to be able to even begin looking at any of that...I'm not a therapist, so good luck there.

Yeah, I completely hear you and do regularly remind myself of this. It's why I said a few posts above that I realized my efforts were moot point, and I care enough about the guy to not try to change him. I've been very open and accepting of his every scar from day one (mostly because I also have scars, and thus cannot judge) but do have these thoughts about what might help him (because I see how it hurts him). Quite true that he must be the one to choose progress though. Regarding your suggestion about entreprenuership: yeah, he would be awesome at that if he had a business partner to keep all of the things organized-- he's very much like myself in that way (and I am a small business owner).

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Diiiiiiiiiiing! We have ourselves some winners, you guys both hit the nail on the head regarding my friend. Sort of. Overall it is a lack of freedom, feeling held down thing.
I used to think that it was explicitly his family that caused this-- he has kind of negative relationships with his Dad and his older brother who are both involved in the workplace. After suggesting it several times over the last couple of years, I was shocked a couple of months ago when he left and started working for a buddy's auto shop about an hour away. I was so happy for him, and really thought this would change the dynamic and the way he feels about work.

I do think it has, but there is still an underlying trapped factor here. I've mentioned this fellow around here before (so this should sound familiar) but he's an ex-convict with a record that makes job hunting not the easiest thing-- in the end, this is the main problem that makes him keep coming back to his family. Frankly, he's needed them at times, and I know that he hates that. He does seem happier working elsewhere, but I still think he feels the limitation of not being able to just go anywhere and interview. He feels constantly indebted to people, which is what makes him a miserable person sometimes. He feels trapped.

Bravo to both of your insights!

I remember him!

Well, damn. Yeah. He's trapped by his own doing. That sucks. But deep down he knows HE is to blame for this. (Even if it wasn't all his fault). So, while he may have realized that, accepted it and moved on - society doesn't show you that same mercy.

Well. So if it was my ESTP friend, I would call his bluff a bit. Challenge him, in an indirect way. For me, this would be to rag on him good naturedly. If or when he talks about any of his frustrations, validate them but use no sympathy or pity.

"Man, I get it. That sucks....So what do you want to do about it?"

Put the control back in his hands. He'll run through options in his head and if that phrase is repeated long enough, in different ways...

He might realize. Damn. I gotta accept this or change it.

Or he might just accept it by complaining through it. I don't know. In that case, I would kind of ignore it, tbh.

I would steer clear of giving him options, let him do that work...don't throw fixes at him. Just validate but keep putting it back on him.

 

[small.wonder]

I remember him!

Well, damn. Yeah. He's trapped by his own doing. That sucks. But deep down he knows HE is to blame for this. (Even if it wasn't all his fault). So, while he may have realized that, accepted it and moved on - society doesn't show you that same mercy.

Well. So if it was my ESTP friend, I would call his bluff a bit. Challenge him, in an indirect way. For me, this would be to rag on him good naturedly. If or when he talks about any of his frustrations, validate them but use no sympathy or pity.

"Man, I get it. That sucks....So what do you want to do about it?"

Put the control back in his hands. He'll run through options in his head and if that phrase is repeated long enough, in different ways...

He might realize. Damn. I gotta accept this or change it.

Or he might just accept it by complaining through it. I don't know. In that case, I would kind of ignore it, tbh.

I would steer clear of giving him options, let him do that work...don't throw fixes at him. Just validate but keep putting it back on him.

I love that, such a subtle distinction but I can see the difference it would make to make it a query, or put the ball in his court. I do tend to be pretty frank with him (even more than I am with most people) so I don't usually pity him-- I do empathize and ask him how he feels about things (that he doesn't think about), but I never indulge him in feeling bad for himself. There have definitely been times that I've pointed out his inaction and the fact that he's tying his own hands in many cases-- that's exactly what prompted this job shift away from his family, I think. That said, I have been guilty of making suggestions at times, which is usually not helpful (he just finds reasons for why they wouldn't work).

Thanks for your input, good stuff!

 

[Captain_Invincible]

I just do whatever I want. Whatever drives me and makes some money. At the moment, that's odd jobs and being a music student. I mean, anything that interests me and utlizes my Se is what does me well. Saying that, I do have long-term goals, and these are a part of it. I want to be an actor after all this, but that's gonna take like 5 years or so.

 

[evilrubberduckie]

I honestly enjoyed working eith children the most. Granted im comparong it to working woth fast food.