Extroversion = Shallowness?

[miss fortune]

Is relating to the world outside of oneself as opposed to inside a form of shallowness?

I've been wondering lately if I'm a horribly superficial person because I view myself from the outside- from others reactions and such- as opposed to knowing who I am and all that.

Do introverts have a better sense of self than extroverts do?

Is extroversion shallow?

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Define shallow, without the use of a dictionary.

 

[miss fortune]

shallow- meaning more like a balloon. Everyone sees the pretty shiny surface, but there's really nothing inside- the surface is everything that there is to the balloon.

 

[Wandering]

Is relating to the world outside of oneself as opposed to inside a form of shallowness?

It's all a matter of perspective IMO. One could argue that introversion is the true shallowness *shrugs*

I've been wondering lately if I'm a horribly superficial person because I view myself from the outside- from others reactions and such- as opposed to knowing who I am and all that.

Is a lake any less deep when you watch it from a helicopter as opposed to when you dive in it?

Do introverts have a better sense of self than extroverts do?

Probably, but one could argue that this focus on themselves makes introverts shallow, as in: overly concerned with themselves at the expense of the rest of the world.

Is extroversion shallow?

No more than introversion IMO

 

[Night]

No.

Extroversion (insofar as it is defined within the MBTI) is a method of transacting incoming stimuli into cogent thought. It has absolutely no connection to one's intellectual efficiency in converting said data into complex associations.

Extroversion does not imply superficiality. Introversion does not presume depth.

Define shallow, without the use of a dictionary.

Subtle is the Lord.

 

[Kiddo]

I find that extroverts can't read into people nearly as deeply as introverts can. Extroverts tend to make surface judgments, which may not be indicative at all of what is really going on with a person. I think they also spend much more time in adjusting their surface self because that is how they think they will be judged. I think that attention to what is immediately visible in their personality can be misconstrued as shallowness.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

shallow- meaning more like a balloon. Everyone sees the pretty shiny surface, but there's really nothing inside- the surface is everything that there is to the balloon.

Would you consider a person who cares deeply about personal causes and others but who shows that care on the outside to be shallow? I wouldn't. I think your definition needs to be tweaked.

 

[miss fortune]

How would you suggest tweaking it then? I couldn't come up with the perfect vocabulary term for the concept that was bugging me, but shallow, or superficial, was the closest!

I wouldn't say that showing how you feel or think about something should be considered shallow, but I was kind of wondering if introverts perceived extroverts as being shallow, and how extroverts viewed themselves that way

 

[Kiddo]

Would you consider a person who cares deeply about personal causes and others but who shows that care on the outside to be shallow? I wouldn't. I think your definition needs to be tweaked.

If they cared deeply about it then they wouldn't be empty inside.

If they didn't really care about it, but they acted like they cared about it on the outside, then that would be shallow.

 

[nightning]

shallow- meaning more like a balloon. Everyone sees the pretty shiny surface, but there's really nothing inside- the surface is everything that there is to the balloon.

A balloon isn't empty... there's air inside of it.

That's my argument for extroversion and shallowness...

To me extroversion is about responding to the environment and adapting to it. Not about being shallow or deep or being fake or true.

Edit:
Clarifying about the balloon... if there's nothing inside, then it'll be a deflated balloon. Shiny yes, but empty. You need substance to keep the balloon filled. Being extroverted doesn't directly relate to shallowness... Although I do find some extroverts to be shallow... Actually you can see the same in introverts as well.... Except shallowness in this case is referred to as being vain.

 

[pure_mercury]

I find that extroverts can't read into people nearly as deeply as introverts can. Extroverts tend to make surface judgments, which may not be indicative at all of what is really going on with a person. I think they also spend much more time in adjusting their surface self because that is how they think they will be judged. I think that attention to what is immediately visible in their personality can be misconstrued as shallowness.

I would disagree with some of this sentiment. Sometimes superficial cues are the best way to get an impression of what someone is truly thinking/feeling, even if they are reticent to signify their thoughts/feelings. And extroverts don't necessarily spend a lot of time concerned with how they "appear" to others. That is assigning a large amount of insecurity to people who may simply be more designed to pay more attention to their place within an interpersonal web, don't you think? I know that I don't find myself "adjusting my surface self" when I interact with others, at least not in any deeper way than in observing the most basic societal norms (i.e., putting on clothes to go outside, not interrupting others when they are speaking, making room for others on the subway, etc.).

 

[Kiddo]

I would disagree with some of this sentiment. Sometimes superficial cues are the best way to get an impression of what someone is truly thinking/feeling, even if they are reticent to signify their thoughts/feelings. And extroverts don't necessarily spend a lot of time concerned with how they "appear" to others. That is assigning a large amount of insecurity to people who may simply be more designed to pay more attention to their place within an interpersonal web, don't you think? I know that I don't find myself "adjusting my surface self" when I interact with others, at least not in any deeper way than in observing the most basic societal norms (i.e., putting on clothes to go outside, not interrupting others when they are speaking, making room for others on the subway, etc.).

I was only giving an introvert's take on how extroverts sometimes seem. The point is, I don't think extroverts are shallow. I just think they tend to be more concerned with how they are immediately perceived in the environment than introverts usually are.

 

[miss fortune]

I would think that would be more tightly linked with high self monitorers than extroversion, but that brings up the question of if the two are related in any way!

 

[pure_mercury]

I was only giving an introvert's take on how extroverts sometimes seem. The point is, I don't think extroverts are shallow. I just think they tend to be more concerned with how they are immediately perceived in the environment than introverts usually are.

Hmmmm. That is something to think about. In my experience, I often get the opposite response, like "Don't you care how you come off to people?" from even good friends. The answer is, clearly, "No, not if they don't make any effort to get to know me." My default setting, if you will, is that new people and I should get along, and that I can find at least topic in which to engage them. If not, I generally chalk it up to their being on a different wavelength than I am, and it's usually pretty evident right away. I suppose that a drawback of extroversion could be excessive fixation on one's reputation or acceptance within a group, but introverts are also given to being self-conscious, right? That may just be endemic to human beings, with individual people suffering from it more or less.

 

[zarc]

I don't think Extroversion = Shallowness.

Do introverts have a better sense of self than extroverts do?

They have a different awareness of what self means to them as would Extroverts, I'd think. They may place a difference as to what shallow means to them as well.

Extroverts may even have a better perception of how society is, they may better understand and adapt to the outer enviornment because they relate easier to it. At least, initially, when compared to Introverts (or hardcore Is).

Quiet Edit: nightning took the near exact words out of my mouth, likely more Ti-coherent than mine would've been , as I couldn't blow the balloon fast enough! lol as I feared someone would! This is what I get for leaving the reply box open while writing elsewhere -.-

 

[Wandering]

A balloon isn't empty... there's air inside of it.

Edit:
Clarifying about the balloon... if there's nothing inside, then it'll be a deflated balloon. Shiny yes, but empty. You need substance to keep the balloon filled.

I actually wrote a post saying *just that*, exactly the same thing, though I didn't post it for some reason

 

[Kiddo]

I would think that would be more tightly linked with high self monitorers than extroversion, but that brings up the question of if the two are related in any way!

I actually don't think most extroverts are even concious of the fact that they do it.

Take for example my ESFJ grandmother. She could be in a terrible mood, but the moment she is around other people she is friendly, happy, and all smiles. I don't see introverts doing that kind thing as often.

Generally I think extroverts may believe if they change how they appear on the surface, people won't pick up on how they are really feeling. The problem is that for introverts, it is often even more clear and pronounced that somebody is in a bad mood when they are putting on "airs".

Of course, that is just my impression. It could be linked to something else.

 

[nightning]

Kiddo: Is that more related to extroversion or just pure Fe?

 

[miss fortune]

Re: Kiddo

I cheer up around people if I'm in a bad mood because I kind of feed off of thier energy (like a human leech or something! ) and social interactions always perk me up!

My sis, also an extrovert, wears her heart on her sleeve- you can always tell if she's sad or cheerful- if she's unhappy EVERYONE must be unhappy (then she becomes more cheerful )

 

[Night]

I was only giving an introvert's take on how extroverts sometimes seem. The point is, I don't think extroverts are shallow. I just think they tend to be more concerned with how they are immediately perceived in the environment than introverts usually are.

Up until I was 14, I used to spend most of my summer weekends helping my grandfather with odds-and-ends on his farm. He had my mother when he was in his 30's and was well into his late 60's before I was in primary school.

As he was a farmer, money was tight. So, instead of paying me outright, he used to take me out for chocolate ice cream when we were done. He lived in the country, so we'd drive into town and share an extra-large sundae (I was a skinny kid, but had a huge appetite for chocolate.)

What always puzzled me was the ride back: on the way to the ice cream parlor, we'd have breezy conversation and the mood was light. The return ride was thin on dialogue and he always seemed very uncomfortable. What was especially odd to me at the time was his insistence on cranking the radio volume way up for the entire ride home.


It was only after he died that I learned he was lactose intolerant.