Evil: Evil and its root cause, Ignorance: What causes Evil? Can you forgive evil?

[Beorn]

God's logic sound like "You create something and that somethihg is taken off contol and then you try fix this over and over again.' God does not have a clue what he does. He blame his creation for everything he made! Things ger worst when you put "know-it-all" , "all-powefull" title to him because he is not. He is very shot side being who act in the moment of his impulses conatnaly fight with his wrong experiment like the universe is the machine who need to be fixed it. This is not omnipotence at all because omnipotence is when Being creare something and don't intrevent to lower worlds. God of Abraham knows how things will work and then show anger on his creations!

The genocide is justified because he's God... Yeah. Definitely worthy of my worship.

I will ask Norexan again and phoenix for the first time.
What is the standard by which you are judging God and why do you have the authority to judge him? If you don't have either of those you're just complaining that things aren't as you see fit which is not the same thing as saying that God does evil.
Things are certainly not the way I would like them like them, but I don't think that makes God evil.

 

[phoenix31]

I will ask Norexan again and phoenix for the first time.
What is the standard by which you are judging God and why do you have the authority to judge him? If you don't have either of those you're just complaining that things aren't as you see fit which is not the same thing as saying that God does evil.
Things are certainly not the way I would like them like them, but I don't think that makes God evil.

I figure if, as a lowly human being, my morality is better than God's, I don't particularly care about his supposed authority. I'm good, thanks.

I don't believe in evil. But I'm kind of curious if your God can commit atrocities and not be evil, what makes him different from Satan?

 

[Beorn]

what makes him different from Satan?

Sacrificing himself for humanity's sake for one. Maintaining the order of the universe isn't too shabby either.

 

[Norexan]

Sacrificing himself for humanity's sake for one. Maintaining the order of the universe isn't too shabby either.

Sacrificing himself to solve problem what he as the creator caused! Intelligence. Such a "All-powerful" being with everlasting wish to control his destiny who always slip away from his hands and OF ALL POWERS he possess (he is all-powerful right?) he uses methods of playing victim , ethnic cleansing , raping children....

 

[phoenix31]

Sacrificing himself for humanity's sake for one. Maintaining the order of the universe isn't too shabby either.

So let me get this straight. God created humans, knowing full well that there would be war, disease and famine, much of which He caused Himself. And then after centuries of human suffering, He sent his son, who gave up 30 something years out of eternity, suffered for a day or so, and then was reunited with his father. To live forever. With no separation. What exactly was the big sacrifice? This is the reason why I'm supposed to worship God?

Also if he's the one managing the place, what with the hurricanes, tornadoes and tsunamis, I'm really not impressed.

 

[Beorn]

Sacrificing himself to solve problem what he as the creator caused! Intelligence. Such a "All-powerful" being with everlasting wish to control his destiny who always slip away from his hands and OF ALL POWERS he possess (he is all-powerful right?) he uses methods of playing victim , ethnic cleansing , raping children....

You still haven't answered my question and I've already asked you twice.

So let me get this straight. God created humans, knowing full well that there would be war, disease and famine, much of which He caused Himself. And then after centuries of human suffering, He sent his son, who gave up 30 something years out of eternity, suffered for a day or so, and then was reunited with his father. To live forever. With no separation. What exactly was the big sacrifice? This is the reason why I'm supposed to worship God?

So there's nothing good in life? Nothing that makes suffering worth it???
If you can make the suffering in the world have meaning and purpose without God, can't it have meaning with God even more so?
God is the highest good and the highest thing valued in the universe. If the ultimate good makes any unjustified sacrifice is the greatest sacrifice of all and of infinite value.
I mean, without God you're just pretending that there is meaning and purpose.
With God the meaning and purpose is serving to glorify the greatest good in existence, God himself, through the greatest sacrifice.

Also if he's the one managing the place, what with the hurricanes, tornadoes and tsunamis, I'm really not impressed.

God doesn't really do things to impress you. This isn't about you and your opinions. They're irrelevant.

 

[phoenix31]

So there's nothing good in life? Nothing that makes suffering worth it???
If you can make the suffering in the world have meaning and purpose without God, can't it have meaning with God even more so?
God is the highest good and the highest thing valued in the universe. If the ultimate good makes any unjustified sacrifice is the greatest sacrifice of all and of infinite value.
I mean, without God you're just pretending that there is meaning and purpose.
With God the meaning and purpose is serving to glorify the greatest good in existence, God himself, through the greatest sacrifice.



God doesn't really do things to impress you. This isn't about you and your opinions. They're irrelevant.

If we're talking good things in life, my life is phenomenal. I'm lucky. But people dying of starvation? Children suffering from cancer? Rape? Torture? Slavery? Ethnic cleansing? No, I cannot find any good in those things that makes the suffering "worth it." It astounds me that you could view God as the orchestrator and allower of such horror and call Him good.

My opinions are irrelevant, so I guess you won't mind that, with all due respect, friend, I think you are completely delusional.

 

[Norexan]

What is the standard by which you are judging God and why do you have the authority to judge him?

No. Silly is when you have a god who make mistakes like human and expect from me to don't treat him as human!

 

[Mole]

You still haven't answered my question and I've already asked you twice. So there's nothing good in life? Nothing that makes suffering worth it??? If you can make the suffering in the world have meaning and purpose without God, can't it have meaning with God even more so? God is the highest good and the highest thing valued in the universe. If the ultimate good makes any unjustified sacrifice is the greatest sacrifice of all and of infinite value. I mean, without God you're just pretending that there is meaning and purpose. With God the meaning and purpose is serving to glorify the greatest good in existence, God himself, through the greatest sacrifice. God doesn't really do things to impress you. This isn't about you and your opinions. They're irrelevant.

They say your god created the universe, but there is not a shred of evidence.

 

[Beorn]

If we're talking good things in life, my life is phenomenal. I'm lucky. But people dying of starvation? Children suffering from cancer? Rape? Torture? Slavery? Ethnic cleansing? No, I cannot find any good in those things that makes the suffering "worth it." It astounds me that you could view God as the orchestrator and allower of such horror and call Him good.

So the minute your life encounters serious suffering it will cease to have meaning and purpose?
The lives of half the global population today who live on less than $2.50 a day have less meaning and purpose than your life?
The lives of virtually everyone who lived before the last 100 years were pointless?

No. Silly is when you have a god who make mistakes like human and expect from me to don't treat him as human!

That's not an answer.
I'm asking you what is your basis for judging anything. How do you make your moral claims about what is right and wrong for humans.
You just keep asserting that things are bad, but I would like to know what your moral framework is.

They say your god created the universe, but there is not a shred of evidence.

There is no evidence that would change your mind or anyone's mind.
It's not a matter of evidence. Not because there is no evidence. The whole universe is the evidence, but rather it's a matter of false belief.
Your belief in evidence as the sole determination of truth is a misguided belief.

 

[phoenix31]

So the minute your life encounters serious suffering it will cease to have meaning and purpose?
The lives of half the global population today who live on less than $2.50 a day have less meaning and purpose than your life?
The lives of virtually everyone who lived before the last 100 years were pointless?

I never said life had meaning and purpose. You did. I certainly think a good portion of the global population has a greatly diminished life compared to what I have, and that is sad and unfair.

If you're asking if life is still worth living with the suffering that exists, I guess that's a question you'd have to ask the sufferer, and many times the answer is no. Then there are those who die in suffering, and they didn't get that option.

 

[Beorn]

I never said life had meaning and purpose. You did.

Oh. Okay. Well then we don't even have the most common of basic understandings about existance.
I'm sorry you see things that way.

 

[Norexan]

That's not an answer.
I'm asking you what is your basis for judging anything. How do you make your moral claims about what is right and wrong for humans.
You just keep asserting that things are bad, but I would like to know what your moral framework is.

I don't judge his moral standard. After all he is a superior being in the story. I judged his methods to do things with all his power! I judge his FALSE omnipotence.

Sacrificing himself to solve problem what he as the creator caused! Intelligence. Such a "All-powerful" being with everlasting wish to control his destiny who always slip away from his hands and OF ALL POWERS he possess (he is all-powerful right?) he uses methods of playing victim , ethnic cleansing , raping children....

and because of that

No. Silly is when you have a god who make mistakes like human and expect from me to don't treat him as human!

I can judge him. Because he is not different then any other lesser divine being found in myths around the world.

So...

If commit genocide , killing babies in front of mothers eyes, sanding bear to rape children , promote cleansing of entair cities who worship others gods etc is not evil you are ignorant person or very unethical.

And if you attempt to accuse me for changing topic just remember where we started from!

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7

He says that he is responsible for creating evil!

So you have only two path:

1. Path that he is unaware god who with "all his perfect omni-BS" created definition of chaotic and flow machine called universe
2. Path that actually another gods exist but problem with that point of view is that makes him greatest liar ever, he becomes kind of heroic sadistic lesser god who is definitely not omni-BS and defiantly not worth of worship. "All-powerful" , "all-knowing" become just the title and NOTHING more then that!

 

[Mole]

So the minute your life encounters serious suffering it will cease to have meaning and purpose?
The lives of half the global population today who live on less than $2.50 a day have less meaning and purpose than your life?
The lives of virtually everyone who lived before the last 100 years were pointless?



That's not an answer. Anal
I'm asking you what is your basis for judging anything. How do you make your moral claims about what is right and wrong for humans.
You just keep asserting that things are bad, but I would like to know what your moral framework is.



There is no evidence that would change your mind or anyone's mind.
It's not a matter of evidence. Not because there is no evidence. The whole universe is the evidence, but rather it's a matter of false belief.
Your belief in evidence as the sole determination of truth is a misguided belief.

We have a way of testing fantasies like the Trinity or mbti, and that is the scientific method.

Of course those entranced by the Trinity or mbti will believe anything that is ini their interests.

Those entranced lose their intellectual integgrity as long as they are entranced.

 

[Tater]

We have a way of testing fantasies like...

... Like this kind of fantasy?

 

[Polaris]

"Evil" is a slippery word. It is almost always used in reference to actions and ways of being that are perfectly innocent in the eyes of many. The one who really gets to determine what is and isn't evil is me. If someone else is certain that something is evil, I can always question them. But if I'm certain that something is evil, that thing is bound to manifest itself as evil.

I would say that the real cause of evil is moral judgment. Things are evil because we judge them to be evil. Without moral judgment, everyone would be perfectly innocent.

A moral judgment presumes the existence of the judged thing in oneself. If I say that religion is evil, for example, and understand what I'm saying, I must be running a simulation of religiosity in my head. In other words, I must be engaging in the act I'm calling evil. So the cause of external evil is evil in oneself. A truly innocent person has no conception of evil.

 

[Lord Lavender]

Evil is on a more big picture objective scale defined as behavior,actions or sets of ideas that are deemed harmful and destructive. However at the personal level evil becomes far more nuanaced like for instance a radical vegterian may consider meat eating to be evil which from most societies could easily be labeled as such as it involves killing a living thing but nost consider it not evil while a racial superinist wouldn't see racial discrimation as evil despite the fact it's a destructive and harmful thing.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

We're all evil in one way or another. Some confess it, while others excuse it.

 

[Tellenbach]

Since we are the least evil demographic in the history of civilization, I'd have to say that the opposite of libertarianism is evil. Someone upthread mentioned that evil is taking something from someone without their agreement; I'd say that's very close to it. Most evil acts do involve theft of something - whether it be life, limb, property, or time.

 

[Mole]

There is only one sin which can't be forgiven, and that is the sin against the Holy Spirit. But what is the sin against the Holy Spirit?