[ESTP] ESTP Intimidation

[substitute]

Bugger the xNTJ's - they're big pussy-cats and we all know it.

No, what scares me is going to get my car fixed.

I'm certainly no sissy myself, but when I go into the garage and find myself confronted with all these ESTP's covered in grease and smelling and looking terribly manly, and I stand there waiting for someone to notice I'm there and they just carry on with their "throwing coins at each other across the reception room with no apparent regard for the customers standing between us" game, so that I'm forced to wait around awkwardly or try to catch someone's attention, and the guy asks me loads of questions involving arcane practical, mechanical, manly knowledge, rolling his eyes at my ignorance, while his workmate DELIBERATELY (I swear!) times his use of a noisy tool with my turns to speak - and he says "okay come back and get it tomorrow morning" with a friendly thump on my shoulder that almost has me knocked onto the floor... well. It's enough to make me feel positively metrosexual - or at least, hideously inadequate.

See, all the "me" that would usually be full of counter-bluster and witty replies seems to crumble and disappear under the frank and vaguely pitying gaze (how can you not know what a calliper is? are you some kind of retard? oh, you poor intellectual fool, you never learned the important facts of life did you?, he seems to say) of the benevolent yet awesome-in-a-scary-way ESTP and I find myself babbling or just remaining silent!

Do any of you realize how scary you can be??

 

[JocktheMotie]

I think you're just intimidated by the fact that they know more than you do about cars, not the fact that they're ESTPs.

 

[substitute]

I think you're just intimidated by the fact that they know more than you do about cars, not the fact that they're ESTPs.

No no no no, I'm never usually intimidated by people knowing more than me about something. It's not that. I mean ha, most people know more than me about something, but by the same token few people know more than me about my specialist subjects, so it all balances out. It's not that, it's just the sheer... ESTP-ness of it all. They don't make me feel inadequate on the grounds of not knowing about cars, it's more on a level of personal inadequacy... that air about them... hard to explain, I was hoping someone who related might find a way to explain it better than me lol

It's not just at the garage either, anywhere where there's a majority ESTP vibe, I find it very difficult to know where to place myself and I do feel very inadequate as a male despite all I know and believe about the traditional expectations of masculinity being a pile of horse shit. Somehow, when I'm presented with people for whom those expectations seem to be effortlessly achieved, all of a sudden I want to achieve them and feel like I'm nothing because I can't!!

 

[substitute]

Just talking about it with my INTJ who is currently present, we're throwing around the idea at the moment here that being in the ESTP environment sometimes triggers the "I want to be a cowboy/soldier/other macho stereotype" chip that's latent in most guys from when they were kids, and somehow that's at the root of the feelings of intimidation - because it's obvious that whilst he and I couldn't be soldiers, these guys could. Just an idea, as I say.

 

[sade]

Your masculinity is under threat, eh? Just run your mouth, and blabber about car stuff. Check from a book before if you don't know. Throw in something about hydrogen using cars possibly in the future (they'll probably take it as a joke, a car needs some muscle). You're masculine enough sweetie.

Disclaimer: just messing with you.
I don't find the ESTP scary..

Unspoken social standards in the space, that you sensed and responded to. Your's wasn't possibly the 'norm' behavior they'd respond to/ were used to, thus making you wait.. or they just weren't feeling like ending their game just yet. Customers stroll in all the time.

There's that certain air of masculinity, and.. something around them. Don't mind them.

Maybe I could relate on the level that there've places where I've felt really masculine, since I didn't really reach the standard in the place. Like the time surrounded by ESxJ girls chatting away about make up, hair, and so on with great passion. And The Housewife's. God help me.

 

[ptgatsby]

Just an idea, as I say.

I have to ask if you felt like you were walking into a 'den' of some animal. I find that there is a sort of familiarity that causes built in social standards, and when an interloper comes in, they feel totally out of place because... they don't know them. They can sense them, but they can't behave in that way.

My guess, anyway.

edit: I meant among ESTP dens, but it happens with other types. Just somewhat differently.

 

["?"]

I have to ask if you felt like you were walking into a 'den' of some animal. I find that there is a sort of familiarity that causes built in social standards, and when an interloper comes in, they feel totally out of place because... they don't know them. They can sense them, but they can't behave in that way.

My guess, anyway.

edit: I meant among ESTP dens, but it happens with other types. Just somewhat differently.

Interesting concept, because although I know little about cars personally, I never feel intimidated by mechanics or going into Home Depot or anything similar. In fact I sense a thrill of possibly learning something new, enjoy the comraderie of being around simple common folks and being taught secrets from their infinite knowledge.

 

[substitute]

Nah PT I think with me it lies nearer the centre where I actually sorta wanna be like them, and being presented with their environment sorta makes me wonder if all the things I've told myself about how I don't care to be like that haven't just been props to defend against or paper over a secret desire to be a soldier, as it were, like any little boy... I guess most other environments I go into, with most other types, I figure I can easily chameleon into it and fit in right from the word go, but not with these guys, I just don't have it in me. And I guess the sheer rarity of that alone maybe makes me want it.

 

[sarah]

Bugger the xNTJ's - they're big pussy-cats and we all know it.

No, what scares me is going to get my car fixed.

I'm certainly no sissy myself, but when I go into the garage and find myself confronted with all these ESTP's covered in grease and smelling and looking terribly manly, and I stand there waiting for someone to notice I'm there and they just carry on with their "throwing coins at each other across the reception room with no apparent regard for the customers standing between us" game, so that I'm forced to wait around awkwardly or try to catch someone's attention...

Oh, so customer service means squat to these businessmen (which is what they are underneath the grease and manly exterior)? Maybe you could look into getting a new mechanic, then. There are guys out there who know how to fix cars AND treat their customers politely. It takes a while to find one, but it's totally worth the effort.

When you do finally find a mechanic who doesn't ignore you and/or drown out your questions with his power tools, you can always send a letter to your former mechanic telling him in plain language why you're not frequenting his business and why you're also going to spend the rest of your life recommending others not take their cars to his business for repairs either.

Sarah

 

[sarah]

I have to ask if you felt like you were walking into a 'den' of some animal. I find that there is a sort of familiarity that causes built in social standards, and when an interloper comes in, they feel totally out of place because... they don't know them. They can sense them, but they can't behave in that way.

My guess, anyway.

edit: I meant among ESTP dens, but it happens with other types. Just somewhat differently.

Good point --- any time you walk into a room of like-minded people who are all more knowledgeable than you are about a subject you need to know at least something about, you're likely going to feel a bit intimidated, even if they're trying to be nice and helpful.

Sarah

 

[substitute]

Yeah Sarah, it's only afterward, when I'm back at home, that I think of saying "Of course I don't know or care what a fucking brake disc is, that's why I brought it here so you grease monkeys can fix it for me all afternoon for crappy pay while I go away and earn more in an afternoon sitting on my ass doing non-manly stuff, than you macho guys do in a week!"

At the time I don't even think of it, I'm too busy wishing I could join in the horse play with the cool/tough guys but knowing I'd get creamed in 0.5 seconds!!

by the way, I don't think I've ever been to a garage in Europe where the service wasn't like that... I think whoever the guys are that own those places just figure it's gonna be an ESTP dominant kinda culture so there's really no point trying to get them to act like professionals and whatever, they'll just end up losing a member of staff per week! if you want the good mechanics, sadly, you have to put up with the attitude... seems to just be the way it is here!!

 

[substitute]

yeah... can we add this thread to the intuitard moments thread then? Cos it seems the connections just aren't being made... it's still being taken as the surface issue of rude mechanics in a garage, which totally isn't what I'm talking about...

 

[Unique]

These places are full of ISTPs and if you think an introvert doesn't have the balls to call you an idiot... you would be wrong.

ISTPs have a "brotherhood" feel about them. If you are not part of it, you get the cold treatment. Poor customer service aka people skills? sounds like a bunch of introverts to me.

Really, I honestly couldn't be bothered learning a single thing about cars, I would rather someone to fix my car for me so I can do something more productive.

Car fixing is the wrong place to find ESTPs

Next time go try a car yard and THEN you will find ESTPs

ISTPs fix cars, ESTPs sell them.

 

[sarah]

yeah... can we add this thread to the intuitard moments thread then? Cos it seems the connections just aren't being made... it's still being taken as the surface issue of rude mechanics in a garage, which totally isn't what I'm talking about...

Well, you did post it in the SP section.... so of course some of us are going to take you literally.

What are you talking about, then? Feeling intimidated if you're in a room full of people who are all the same type and who are very different than you?


Sarah

 

[Maverick]

Hey, you're the customer. If they're not serving you adequately, the best thing to do is to find service somewhere else.

 

[soleil]

I have a friend/co-worker who is an ESTP & a lot of people are intimidated by him. I can understand why. He's very blunt & direct about everything. You try pulling some shit on him & he will cut you! LOL (j/p sorta) . He's very outspoken about what he likes & doesn't & will put you in your place no matter who's there. He's a good guy. Some people see him as off putting, but I appreciate him for who he is.

 

[Dali]

Rude mechanics? Go elsewhere.

But seriously, I get that vibe from STPs all the time. I wouldn't try to 'fit in' right away. You have to sort of 'prove yourself' or just keep doing your own thing (e.g. no discernible embarassment whatsoever about not knowing this or that obscure car part) and they'll respect your honesty / confidence at least.

Or they wont.

For what it's worth, my ESTP father is the most impossibly macho man I know and most people... let me rephrase that, almost everyone including his siblings, children, friends, employees, other family... regard him with a mixture of respect and a touch of fear.

 

[Winz]

yeah... can we add this thread to the intuitard moments thread then? Cos it seems the connections just aren't being made... it's still being taken as the surface issue of rude mechanics in a garage, which totally isn't what I'm talking about...

I get what you mean. I feel the same way around groups of ESFP/ESFJ women.

 

[King sns]

hmmm... I always throught mechanics were ISTP's too. They don't seem to like to interact outside of their little group and their cars.

(yes, aware that i'm taking it literally, and this isn't the point. i'm an S with a one track mind, what can I say? )

As far as ESTP's go, its not just you. They are the most intimidating of all the types IMO. Always feel like they are bulldozing me over during conversation or something.

 

[mwv6r]

Agreed, I also find some ESTPs and ISTPs a little intimidating at times. I definitely wouldn't want to be on an ESTP's bad side! Provided I'm on good terms with them though, it's a fun relationship because they're very playful and uncomplicated and you always know where you stand with them. ISTPs are a little tougher to read because as introverts they provide very few verbal clues, and in addition feeling is their inferior function (it's tertiary for ESTPs).