[MBTI General] ESFP/ENFP - how to get the ESFP off the ENFP?

[Twixt]

I am a female ENFP and there's this ESFP guy who seems to be totally into me. We met about 2 years ago and he started liking me (ie. flirting) while he was still with another girl so that was a huge turn-off for me.

He started suggesting we get together as a couple a few months into knowing each other. Its been quite on-off for us; we talk for a while then when he gets too clingy/annoying I ignore him for periods of time.

Around him i turn into quite an ENTP, with all that one-up-manship going on. I can get quite skeptical and cynical (well as skeptical and cynical as a fluffy ENFP can get) when around him, because I am always suspicious of his trying to charm me. (my ENTPness comes out and then it humiliates me intensely to be manipulated/taken in my someone else)

I don't like him romantically, and can never picture us together. I want long-term commitment and stability and those are just not ESFP things. As an ENFP i am terribly embarrassed to say, in my younger days, that his attention secretly thrilled me. Now its just annoying, and suffocating (I get "please don't ignore me " text messages more times than I can count)

The topic of us being a couple has come up many times (he always brings it up every couple of months) and I always decline. Recently, I explained my rationale for turning him down (ie. my need for stability and security in a loving relationship doesn't mesh with his commitment issues). However, he said straight away that he'd "change" for me, he'd do "anything" for me.

I am 99% sure I don't believe him, but the part of me that's attuned to 'What Could Be' is holding me back from totally disregarding that statement.

Either way, I do not want to go into a relationship with him. Not now, at least.

So my question is, HOW DO I GET HIM TO STOP LIKING ME??? How can i get him off me? Without being too mean that things would be awkward between us?

Any input will be greatly appreciated!

 

[Googly_Eyes]

Be blunt. Too many times have I seen a feeler be way too loosey goosey about something like this, both allowing the harassment to continue and leading the guy/girl on through excruciating torment until they're faced with devastating heartbreak. Put yourself in his shoes. If you liked him but he didn't like you, would you rather he told you it definitely wasn't going to happen or that he give you some straws to clutch at for two or more years even though he knew full well that it wasn't going to happen?

Just tell him no - NO - and if he acts like a jackass (ie. typical SP response to rejection) then, well, he's a jackass. But you both deserve better and there's a simple solution to this.

And if I'm getting the wrong impression and you have done this then just avoid him. You've made yourself clear and if he can't accept it then that's his problem. You don't have to cut him out of your life completely, just give him some time to fall out of love with you and then things can go back to normal. A more normal normal.

 

[Twixt]

Thank you.

It seems to me that I've made the 'NO' clear but I suppose maybe I'm not as obvious as I think.

But just curious, do you think he will really change? He says he means to change with 'all [his] heart'. I know the chance is slim... but do you guys think its completely impossible? And on the off-chance that its possible, how long could it take?

And would the rejection completely burn the bridge between us? I'm just thinking about the possibility of us in a work/professional setting together, and I wouldn't want this to hamper our efficiency on a project.

 

[Siegfried]

Is it really worth changing someone who you aren't interested romantically, on the small chance that he'd become totally different? If he does change, it doesn't seem fair to do it for anyone else, he should do it for himself, that would be better for his long term personal growth and it would avoid him saying to you "I did this for us to have a chance", and thus putting relationship expectations on you.

Saying rejection clearly and finally is the best approach to settle the matter, obviously gracefully, he has had the crush for awhile. If you feel you have to be more subtle about it for the sake of the project, you can assess better the context and effect it will have on him, though if you are clear both you and him can move onto different people more easily.

 

[Googly_Eyes]

Thank you.

It seems to me that I've made the 'NO' clear but I suppose maybe I'm not as obvious as I think.

But just curious, do you think he will really change? He says he means to change with 'all [his] heart'. I know the chance is slim... but do you guys think its completely impossible? And on the off-chance that its possible, how long could it take?

I have a lot to say to this but there's really only one question you need to ask yourself: "Do I want a romantic relationship with him?" If the answer is no, tell him no. If it's yes, go for it.

And don't tell yourself yes because you think he'll change. I know the offer to change must be pretty enticing to an NF but you either like him for who he is or not at all.

And would the rejection completely burn the bridge between us? I'm just thinking about the possibility of us in a work/professional setting together, and I wouldn't want this to hamper our efficiency on a project.

Can't say about the burnt bridge. I've seen lots of breakups and rejections between all kinds of types and I haven't seen any consistency in this regard.

As for the whole work environment thing, yeah, it probably will affect that. SPs don't take well to rejection so their natural spontaneity (inadvertent disregard for social/professional/business conduct) doesn't bode well for the person they feel they've been scorned by, especially in the case of ESFPs. I've seen some ESFPs do some pretty stupid things after breakups and rejections. A good ESFP friend of mine started sleeping around with his ex's friends just to piss her off (but what she did to him was pretty bad in that case - not that I'm justifying it, just saying you probably don't need to expect that). And a friend of mine recently broke up with an ESFP and now he's calling her day and night just so he can argue with her - and he's the one who dumped her.



Anyway, I know it sucks. You never asked to be in a position like this and it's not fair that you have to break his heart (if you do) but, like it or not, this is the situation you're in and there's a right way and a wrong way to handle it.

 

[Twixt]

If he does change, it doesn't seem fair to do it for anyone else, he should do it for himself, that would be better for his long term personal growth and it would avoid him saying to you "I did this for us to have a chance", and thus putting relationship expectations on you.

Thank you Siegfried, I didn't think of that! Haha (i'm an oblivious idiot i know)

And don't tell yourself yes because you think he'll change. I know the offer to change must be pretty enticing to an NF but you either like him for who he is or not at all.

^ Very true, thank you for reminding me of that Googly_Eyes! I think that was what my subconscious might have been thinking. But I'll be firm now.

As for the whole work environment thing, yeah, it probably will affect that. SPs don't take well to rejection so their natural spontaneity (inadvertent disregard for social/professional/business conduct) doesn't bode well for the person they feel they've been scorned by, especially in the case of ESFPs. I've seen some ESFPs do some pretty stupid things after breakups and rejections. A good ESFP friend of mine started sleeping around with his ex's friends just to piss her off (but what she did to him was pretty bad in that case - not that I'm justifying it, just saying you probably don't need to expect that). And a friend of mine recently broke up with an ESFP and now he's calling her day and night just so he can argue with her - and he's the one who dumped her.

^ Eep, doesn't sound too good. But nevermind, I'll risk it. Because what there is to gain is much more than what there is to lose.

And... (ok this is gonna sound like idealistic fluff lol) I'm hoping we'll still remain, of course not best buddies, but on cordial, friendly, speaking terms? That's possible right? Seeing as both our types are.. generally quite accepting of everyone?? (Please correct me if i'm wrong, I'm rather new to this!)

 

[Twixt]

If he does change, it doesn't seem fair to do it for anyone else, he should do it for himself, that would be better for his long term personal growth and it would avoid him saying to you "I did this for us to have a chance", and thus putting relationship expectations on you.

Thank you Siegfried, I didn't think of that! Haha (i'm an oblivious idiot i know)

And don't tell yourself yes because you think he'll change. I know the offer to change must be pretty enticing to an NF but you either like him for who he is or not at all.

^ Very true, thank you for reminding me of that Googly_Eyes! I think that was what my subconscious might have been thinking. But I'll be firm now.

As for the whole work environment thing, yeah, it probably will affect that. SPs don't take well to rejection so their natural spontaneity (inadvertent disregard for social/professional/business conduct) doesn't bode well for the person they feel they've been scorned by, especially in the case of ESFPs. I've seen some ESFPs do some pretty stupid things after breakups and rejections. A good ESFP friend of mine started sleeping around with his ex's friends just to piss her off (but what she did to him was pretty bad in that case - not that I'm justifying it, just saying you probably don't need to expect that). And a friend of mine recently broke up with an ESFP and now he's calling her day and night just so he can argue with her - and he's the one who dumped her.

^ Eep, doesn't sound too good. But nevermind, I'll risk it. Because what there is to gain is much more than what there is to lose.

And... (ok this is gonna sound like idealistic fluff lol) I'm hoping we'll still remain, of course not best buddies, but on cordial, friendly, speaking terms? That's possible right? Seeing as both our types are.. generally quite accepting of everyone?? (Please correct me if i'm wrong, I'm rather new to this!)

 

[Siegfried]

Thank you Siegfried, I didn't think of that! Haha (i'm an oblivious idiot i know)

Nah, I was just thinking about various potential scenarios, not insulting you, Ne at work, hehe. Its reasonable to ask for advice, I would do the same.

^ Eep, doesn't sound too good. But nevermind, I'll risk it. Because what there is to gain is much more than what there is to lose.

And... (ok this is gonna sound like idealistic fluff lol) I'm hoping we'll still remain, of course not best buddies, but on cordial, friendly, speaking terms? That's possible right? Seeing as both our types are.. generally quite accepting of everyone?? (Please correct me if i'm wrong, I'm rather new to this!)

I hope everything works out well between you and him. I mean if he's a good guy he should be able to take it and remain on good speaking terms, if handled well.

 

[Googly_Eyes]

^ Eep, doesn't sound too good. But nevermind, I'll risk it. Because what there is to gain is much more than what there is to lose.

And... (ok this is gonna sound like idealistic fluff lol) I'm hoping we'll still remain, of course not best buddies, but on cordial, friendly, speaking terms? That's possible right? Seeing as both our types are.. generally quite accepting of everyone?? (Please correct me if i'm wrong, I'm rather new to this!)

I really wish I could say yes but the truth is that I don't know. It's true that feelers want harmony between everyone but they can be pretty vicious when they're angry/upset. At worst he'll do a lot of crazy (mean) things to try to get an emotional reaction out of you to begin with. It won't last forever though. The question is just whether or not either of you will ever be comfortable being around each other once that's over with. That, I'm afraid I can't tell you. It is definitely possible though, as far as I can know from only having read about your situation.

 

[Salomé]

I
I don't like him romantically, and can never picture us together. I want long-term commitment and stability and those are just not ESFP things. As an ENFP i am terribly embarrassed to say, in my younger days, that his attention secretly thrilled me. Now its just annoying, and suffocating (I get "please don't ignore me " text messages more times than I can count)

The topic of us being a couple has come up many times (he always brings it up every couple of months) and I always decline. Recently, I explained my rationale for turning him down (ie. my need for stability and security in a loving relationship doesn't mesh with his commitment issues). However, he said straight away that he'd "change" for me, he'd do "anything" for me.

I am 99% sure I don't believe him, but the part of me that's attuned to 'What Could Be' is holding me back from totally disregarding that statement.

Either way, I do not want to go into a relationship with him. Not now, at least.

So my question is, HOW DO I GET HIM TO STOP LIKING ME??? How can i get him off me? Without being too mean that things would be awkward between us?

Any input will be greatly appreciated!

In my experience, ENFPs can be infuriatingly disingenuous in these matters. Also, they frequently ask for but rarely listen to advice.

However, FWIW:

You need to get your head sorted out about how you feel.

"I don't like him romantically, and can never picture us together." You find him "suffocating/annoying".
And yet, when explaining your reticence to him:
"Recently, I explained my rationale for turning him down (ie. my need for stability and security in a loving relationship doesn't mesh with his commitment issues)."

This is not a rejection - it's offering him hope that if he can get his commitment issues sorted out, you'd consider him. You should have told him that you aren't attracted to him, and don't believe you ever could be - if that is in fact the truth. That's not mean, it's honest and therefore respectful.

Why are you interested in "what could be", if you aren't attracted to him?

Don't send mixed messages. Do you like him romantically, but want him to change? If so, give it up, you can't change people, even if they change themselves under the influence of infatuation, they soon change back. Look for someone who shares your values.

Also, you should think of him instead of worrying about burning your bridges. He needs to build bridges elsewhere, rather than be left in purgatory.

Hope this doesn't seem too harsh - I have considerable experience in this area.

 

[mlittrell]

yaaaa this situation hits quite close to home, i just said that i didn't like her but i would remain friends. i was just firm and i said it till she knew i was serious and i left it at that. does she still like me, i have no idea, maybe lol, but its not my problem anymore

 

[Jeffster]

I've seen some ESFPs do some pretty stupid things after breakups and rejections.

I'm pretty sure people of every type have done some pretty stupid things after breakups and rejections.

 

[Googly_Eyes]

I'm pretty sure people of every type have done some pretty stupid things after breakups and rejections.

True enough (and, for the record, ESFJs have been the worst from what I've seen) it's just ESFPs' spontaneity that can get them doing some pretty crazy things. Introverts tend to do far less drastic things than extroverts, as well as Ts than Fs. If an IxTx sees a recent ex in public by coincidence, he/she likely won't make a scene. The mere sight of a recent ex will get an ExFx (ESFP) fired up though and they'll probably cause a raucous.

 

[Twixt]

Siegfried & bluemonday: Nah I'm not hurt at all Thanks. To steal a supposed INTJ line, being straightforward and blunt "saves time".

Why are you interested in "what could be", if you aren't attracted to him?

I think its because, being an ENFP, I'm all for personal growth haha. So even if I'm not romantically attracted to him I still want him to grow as a person? But then again, how can I know my ways are the 'right' ways for him to grow, right. Haha ok. Point taken, thanks Mixed messages are the worst, I know, and yeah I'd hate to deal with a disingenuous person too.

He needs to build bridges elsewhere, rather than be left in purgatory.

Agreed.

Thanks all, its very helpful hearing different viewpoints, especially from people who aren't emotionally involved in this.

 

[sarah]

I think its because, being an ENFP, I'm all for personal growth haha. So even if I'm not romantically attracted to him I still want him to grow as a person? But then again, how can I know my ways are the 'right' ways for him to grow, right. Haha ok. Point taken, thanks Mixed messages are the worst, I know, and yeah I'd hate to deal with a disingenuous person too.

It sounds like the situation calls for sending him the clear message that you will never be interested in him romantically, and that you aren't thinking about his personal growth (even if you are.) If he thinks that showing signs of growth is the ticket to winning your love, then he's going to keep feeding you those lines about changing to please you.

At this point, I'd put his inner life on the back burner, because it's only making him think you're more interested in him than you really are. People grow inwardly when they're ready for it, or when life situations are such that they can't ignore their own problems anymore, and if this guy is thinking he can make sweeping changes in his life for the sake of love, then he's not ready for it. SPs are pretty visually oriented, so I'm thinking it might help to make your body language more chilly around him. You can be courteous yet cold, if you know what I mean.

Sarah
ISFP

 

[Mondo]

Are you afraid that he will dump you later on?
I notice that you talk about his "commitment issues".

 

[Twixt]

Ok, UPDATE:

I've told him, "Its not going to happen." He asked why. I explained [cited the commitment reason and what i've learnt from here, ie. that its not fair for him to have to change]. He's sad but said, "What can i say?"

Then he asked about his strengths and flaws, besides the commitment issue. So I told him what I thought they were. (this is probably because, before I came on here to get advice, I asked him to list my strengths and flaws too - strengths, because I was pretty sure he didn't know me thaaaat well so I wanted to know why on earth he was attracted to me (I promise I was not trying to flirt AT ALL in case it could be construed that way), and flaws, because i was trying to get him to see for himself why he wouldn't like to be with me (stupid idea?) )

Anyway, he didn't say anything for a while... Then he started asking about things unrelated to our relationship. Like normal things, that normal people chat about.

I'm trying to figure out what the implication of this is:
a) he's bounced back already and is totally fine
b) he's giving the illusion of having bounced back already to hide his hurt feelings
c) he just disregarded what I said about our relationship not advancing to 'more than just friends', and thinks if he continues trying to talk to me he'll eventually win me over?? [I read here that ESFPs are "arrogant" - I'm not sure, could this possibly be evidence of such arrogance? Bearing in mind, of course, that people aren't 100% true to their MB type]
d) ?????

I'm not at all sure about those possibilities, can anyone else think of more? I will tear my hair out if it turns out to be (c). :horor:
[ok kidding, but it'd be pretty aggravating/exasperating]

Or, maybe I should just wait and see how this plays out?

Also, should I answer and treat him like a person, or avoid him for the time being? I don't want to fall back into casual conversations again only to have him fall for me again, and repeat this whole rejection process again

 

[Twixt]

It sounds like the situation calls for sending him the clear message that you will never be interested in him romantically, and that you aren't thinking about his personal growth (even if you are.) If he thinks that showing signs of growth is the ticket to winning your love, then he's going to keep feeding you those lines about changing to please you.

At this point, I'd put his inner life on the back burner, because it's only making him think you're more interested in him than you really are. People grow inwardly when they're ready for it, or when life situations are such that they can't ignore their own problems anymore, and if this guy is thinking he can make sweeping changes in his life for the sake of love, then he's not ready for it.

Thanks, haha yeah I sorta just realised that. (bit late I know ) But point is, I'll just be, as you said, "courteous yet cold". Detached.

Are you afraid that he will dump you later on?
I notice that you talk about his "commitment issues".

Yeah, I am afraid of that. But of course that's not the only reason why I'm not going to be with him. Even if he were committed, I don't agree with his values/moral priorities. And basically his personality just doesn't appeal to me romantically.

 

[sarah]

Ok, UPDATE:

I've told him, "Its not going to happen." He asked why. I explained [cited the commitment reason and what i've learnt from here, ie. that its not fair for him to have to change]. He's sad but said, "What can i say?"

Then he asked about his strengths and flaws, besides the commitment issue. So I told him what I thought they were. (this is probably because, before I came on here to get advice, I asked him to list my strengths and flaws too - strengths, because I was pretty sure he didn't know me thaaaat well so I wanted to know why on earth he was attracted to me (I promise I was not trying to flirt AT ALL in case it could be construed that way), and flaws, because i was trying to get him to see for himself why he wouldn't like to be with me (stupid idea?) )

Anyway, he didn't say anything for a while... Then he started asking about things unrelated to our relationship. Like normal things, that normal people chat about.

I'm trying to figure out what the implication of this is:
a) he's bounced back already and is totally fine
b) he's giving the illusion of having bounced back already to hide his hurt feelings
c) he just disregarded what I said about our relationship not advancing to 'more than just friends', and thinks if he continues trying to talk to me he'll eventually win me over?? [I read here that ESFPs are "arrogant" - I'm not sure, could this possibly be evidence of such arrogance? Bearing in mind, of course, that people aren't 100% true to their MB type]
d) ?????

I'm not at all sure about those possibilities, can anyone else think of more? I will tear my hair out if it turns out to be (c). :horor:
[ok kidding, but it'd be pretty aggravating/exasperating]

Or, maybe I should just wait and see how this plays out?

Also, should I answer and treat him like a person, or avoid him for the time being? I don't want to fall back into casual conversations again only to have him fall for me again, and repeat this whole rejection process again

Good for you! And good for him not to behave badly about getting rejected.

As flattering as it may be to imagine this guy pining away for you, I gotta say, we SPs tend to live in the present moment. If we realize we don't have a chance with someone, we don't waste our time with that person. Keirsey uses the Aesop's fable example of the fox not wasting his time on the grapes he can't reach to describe how SPs tend to view love relationships. It's not that we don't have strong feelings, it's that we prefer to move on rather than sit around suffering indefinately after getting rejected by someone we thought was potential life-partner material.

By all means, "treat him like a person" (as opposed to ... what? A pariah?) But I'd just avoid spending time alone with him for the present. Give him enough time to get interested in somebody else. If he's an outgoing ESFP, it shouldn't be too long.

Sarah
ISFP

 

[Salomé]

Excellent. Progress. Now stick to your guns!