Equality, Deference and Dominance

[Mole]

Ann, not Alice

Nice! I've been reading so many cases that ended in transportation (on oldbaileyonline.org) and have frequently wondered about what happened to so many of them afterwards. The only time it's recorded in their records is when they were captured coming BACK from transportation before their time was up.

I looked up Alice's name in their database, but didn't find it. But, like I said before, name changes were frequent as was spelling. It would have been fun to find her though.

It looks like it was A. Shortus and A for Ann. So it looks like it was Ann Shortus. Click on http://unicorn.aiatsis.gov.au/uhtbin/cgisirsi/?ps=bukaM7PyUD/0/318320005/8/55032/Shortus,+A.

 

[Cellmold]

In the basement of our National Library there is a whole industry of individuals devoted to researching geneology.

For instance, an ancestor of mine, Alice Shortus, was brought to Australia as a convict. It was an open prison and the convicts came and went at will. So Alice escaped, and with a few other convicts stole a sailing ship in Sydney Harbour.

As soon as the ship was missed the Royal Navy sent a ship in pursuit. But it was tail pursuit and the Royal Navy never caught them.

However they were running out of water and pulled into the shore and were wrecked on a reef. Everyone made it to land but unfortunately there was a large gathering of aborigees nearby and they slaughtered everyone on the beach except Alice.

Alice was kidnapped by the tribe and bore a number of children who we know quite a bit about because they became Bush Rangers who were inevitably caught by the police and so found their way in our records.

And Alice had a measure of fame as the Queen of the Aboriginees and featured on the cover of our Womans' Weekly magazine.

I found this quite interesting, induces me to look up my past ancestors.

 

[digesthisickness]

It looks like it was A. Shortus and A for Ann. So it looks like it was Ann Shortus. Click on http://unicorn.aiatsis.gov.au/uhtbin/cgisirsi/?ps=bukaM7PyUD/0/318320005/8/55032/Shortus,+A.

Thanks! Did you have trouble connecting her to your line? Or did the records show her descendants clearly enough? You said she was transported, so I tried to find her case, but didn't under that name. I did find a Mary Ann Short in that time frame though. It could be her as they frequently changed names slightly either during the trial or once in the new country. And googling the surname "Shortus" shows it's not a common name at all worldwide. Thanks for sharing. It was fun to research.

I found this quite interesting, induces me to look up my past ancestors.

I've really enjoyed doing it. If you do, I hope you share what you find in my thread about it. I'd like to see what you find and how you went about the research.

 

[Mole]

And googling the surname "Shortus" shows it's not a common name at all worldwide.

Yes, I am the only "Shortus" in all of Canberra. Indeed I am an endangered species and I know you will want to protect me.

 

[Mole]

Did you have trouble connecting her to your line?

I am not a descendant of Ann Shortus, but as the name is so uncommon, there can be little doubt we are connected way back.

 

[Typh0n]

Everyone is not equal. This would be tantamount to saying we are all the same.

Bingo.

 

[Mole]

The Common Law, Sharia Law and the Hindu Caste System

Everyone is not equal. This would be tantamount to saying we are all the same.

We started by saying we are all equal in the eyes of our God. Of course this is specific to our God. For instance, we are not all equal in the eyes of other Gods such as Allah or Brahman.

Allah for instance says Jews, Christians and Infidels are not equal to Muslims, while Brahman says Hindus are divided into unequal castes.

So we started off by saying we are all equal in the eyes of our God. Then we secularised this belief into our Common Law and now say, we are all equal under our Common Law.

And although we are all equal under our Common Law, we are not all equal under Sharia law or under the Hindu caste system.

 

[roman67]

There is confusion in this statement, everyone not equal the rights of everyone are equal.

 

[Coriolis]

There is confusion in this statement, everyone not equal the rights of everyone are equal.

Equality (or lack thereof) can be measured using many yardsticks: religious, moral, legal, physical, intellectual, etc. The idea of everyone having equal rights reflects legal equality, but says nothing about the others.

 

[Typh0n]

We started by saying we are all equal in the eyes of our God. Of course this is specific to our God. For instance, we are not all equal in the eyes of other Gods such as Allah or Brahman.

Allah for instance says Jews, Christians and Infidels are not equal to Muslims, while Brahman says Hindus are divided into unequal castes.

So we started off by saying we are all equal in the eyes of our God. Then we secularised this belief into our Common Law and now say, we are all equal under our Common Law.

And although we are all equal under our Common Law, we are not all equal under Sharia law or under the Hindu caste system.

Oh boy.

 

[Stanton Moore]

I believe in you, Mole.

 

[Mole]

I believe in you, Mole.

Mole does tend to be a little diffident so I appreciate your belief, Stanton.

 

[xisnotx]

Humans naturally hierarchize.

 

[Mole]

Humans naturally hierarchize.

Literate individuals naturally hierarchize. They have no choice as they all feel differently and so need an external structure like a hierarchy to relate.

While an electronic tribe all feel the same and have no need of an external structure in order to relate.

 

[xisnotx]

While an electronic tribe all feel the same and have no need of an external structure in order to relate.

Except that they do, in order to function, or else that it will be demanded of them (by who?).

But I would be pretty daring to say who should defer to who, but this is because we are in a stage of transition, and before long we will be demanding deference and dominance. We will have a moral crusade for deference and dominance. And before long we will take deference and dominance for granted. And once again deference and dominance will be the natural order.

 

[Mole]

Except that they do, in order to function, or else that it will be demanded of them (by who?).

Go and live with a tribe in Papua New Guinea and you will find a spoken culture that functions by an internal order, largely by shared feeling, quite unlike our own society.