[ENTP] ENTP: To hug or hit?

[Oberon]

What isn't in doubt, Oberon? *innocent look*
Is there something you would like?

Sorry, you lost me with "innocent look."

I'm not quite sure you can pull one of those off.

 

[Amargith]

Check the pic on my profile for proof...
It's an art really

 

[entropie]

She knows a truth !! one for sure

 

[563 740]

I think actually that's getting closer to it - the lack of judging. That's what makes me feel free with someone.

 

[Oberon]

Check the pic on my profile for proof...
It's an art really

Okay, okay... that would probably work. For people who aren't acquainted with you, at least.

 

[Amargith]

Okay, okay... that would probably work. For people who aren't acquainted with you, at least.

Ohh..and for some who know me as well..
So, was there something I could do for you, Oberon?
I know what you can do for me...

 

[entropie]

Go get it tiger

 

[Amargith]

I would love the same from you though, entropie...

 

[Oberon]

Ohh..and for some who know me as well..
So, was there something I could do for you, Oberon?
I know what you can do for me...

Now you know I can't leave that alone. What is it that I could possibly do that would please you?

<---- is bracing himself for the answer

 

[Amargith]

Answer my questions in the thread

 

[entropie]

I would love the same from you though, entropie...

hey thats emotional blackmail ! Oberon can do it !

 

[Amargith]

Wait..you're accusing me of blackmail? *innocent look*
I'm merely showing interest..why would you deny me your insights? *pouts*

 

[substitute]

So I wonder...how do you experience 'being judged'. And are you likely to judge people yourself? If not, do you ever feel that you might be perceived as such?

Oh yes I know that I often get told I've judged someone, but I honestly feel that it's all in their heads. The way I see it is that they think that something's a "bad thing" - they have value judgements about certain issues, so they assume I do. So when I use a word, meaning it completely neutrally, just as an observation, they think I'm making a value judgement, when in fact that's come from them, not me. I might even mean it as a positive thing!

In truth, I really do feel like I'm extremely unjudgemental, though I guess it's possible that I might have some blind spot somewhere that I don't know about, I really would be surprised if this was it. Considering all the things I am and have been and done, I'm the last person to stand in judgement against anyone else. I find it far too easy to put myself in someone else's shoes and understand, to be able to judge harshly.

I never thought about it really until a few years ago somebody said it of me - somebody who had no reason to lie or flatter me - and cited as evidence all the sort of waifs and strays and misfits that seem to gravitate towards me. I had often wondered why I've always seemed to attract these people, then the guy said it was obvious to him: because everywhere else they go they get judged, whilst I just accept them and believe in them. I don't have any like, requirements of anyone, you know? I just take people as I find them - you can be an asshole today but if you come back tomorrow and behave reasonably, I'll be all ears. And I don't do it for them really, or for me... it just seems the only way I know to live life. Since every human being has good points and bad points, why limit myself on which people I'll accept and which I won't? As if I were some supreme arbiter of human worth, and everyone was queueing up to be my friend and pass my tests? Bah The person who wrongs you today probably did it by accident, and they could be the person who saves you tomorrow, so why cut them off? Cos everyone's gonna wrong you at some point, to think otherwise is naive frankly, and setting yourself up for torment in future, not to mention expecting too much of people - expecting them not to be human. But I strongly believe that 90% of the time it's unintentional in most people.

I guess that's all easy to say for someone who's kinda detached anyway... I guess if I had very strong Fe and felt very involved and affected by things like that, it might be harder to stay open by default. But I don't, so...

I think that the harder your life's been, the more stigmatized or outcast you are, the less likely you are perhaps to judge other people, the more likely you are to accept others warts and all. The more consciously you desire this to be done for you too. I think that might be why I've always struggled to really click or get close to "normal" people... they just find it hard to allow themselves to be accepted for who they are, it's too ingrained in them that they have to always be trying and fitting in, etc. And I find it hard to have my acceptance and friendship thrown back at me all the time because a person just thinks it's too good to be true. I never close the door, you know, but there comes a point when I won't initiate any more.

Perhaps ENTP's being kinda stigmatized a lot for being crazy, this that or the other, it might be something that stands us in good stead when it comes to giving people a fair go.

 

[entropie]

Wait..you're accusing me of blackmail? *innocent look*
I'm merely showing interest..why would you deny me your insights? *pouts*

My mummy said: Dont talk to foreigners !

 

[Oberon]

So, was there something I could do for you, Oberon?

Yes, there is actually... I'd like to see a pic of your whole face on your profile page.

Pretty please?

EDIT: And there, I've answered one of your questions in this thread.

 

[entropie]

Yes, there is actually... I'd like to see a pic of your whole face on your profile page.

Pretty please?

EDIT: And there, I've answered one of your questions in this thread.

Yeah I second that ! Bring out the OOs

 

[simulatedworld]

You say "borderline infuriating" - is that a euphemism for "I'd rather bury myself in an anthill and smear strawberry jelly in my eyes than be subjected to another second of this"?

Pretty much. Here comes some asshole INFJ to invent an entire emotional backstory for this minor expression of emotion and then swallow his (or HER...) own bathwater until he finally convinces himself it's true.

They're often reminiscent of INTJs, who can be sloppy in their search for technical efficiency and end up ignoring or prematurely dismissing legitimate alternate possibilities or explanations for logical problems...INFJs just do it with their reads on the emotional motivations of others instead.

In both cases it's a little disconcerting, but at least when INTJs do it they aren't flat out obnoxious. Can't say the same for their INFJ buddies, I'm afraid. And you thought ENTPs were arrogant!

(And this is coming from a guy who likes most INFJs!)

 

[entropie]

Pretty much. Here comes some asshole INFJ to invent an entire emotional backstory for this minor expression of emotion and then swallow his (or HER...) own bathwater until he finally convinces himself it's true.

Isnt that lovely ? Reminds me of me when I was young and still invented "things"

 

[Amargith]

Oh yes I know that I often get told I've judged someone, but I honestly feel that it's all in their heads. The way I see it is that they think that something's a "bad thing" - they have value judgements about certain issues, so they assume I do. So when I use a word, meaning it completely neutrally, just as an observation, they think I'm making a value judgement, when in fact that's come from them, not me. I might even mean it as a positive thing!

In truth, I really do feel like I'm extremely unjudgemental, though I guess it's possible that I might have some blind spot somewhere that I don't know about, I really would be surprised if this was it. Considering all the things I am and have been and done, I'm the last person to stand in judgement against anyone else. I find it far too easy to put myself in someone else's shoes and understand, to be able to judge harshly.

I never thought about it really until a few years ago somebody said it of me - somebody who had no reason to lie or flatter me - and cited as evidence all the sort of waifs and strays and misfits that seem to gravitate towards me. I had often wondered why I've always seemed to attract these people, then the guy said it was obvious to him: because everywhere else they go they get judged, whilst I just accept them and believe in them. I don't have any like, requirements of anyone, you know? I just take people as I find them - you can be an asshole today but if you come back tomorrow and behave reasonably, I'll be all ears. And I don't do it for them really, or for me... it just seems the only way I know to live life. Since every human being has good points and bad points, why limit myself on which people I'll accept and which I won't? As if I were some supreme arbiter of human worth, and everyone was queueing up to be my friend and pass my tests? Bah The person who wrongs you today probably did it by accident, and they could be the person who saves you tomorrow, so why cut them off? Cos everyone's gonna wrong you at some point, to think otherwise is naive frankly, and setting yourself up for torment in future, not to mention expecting too much of people - expecting them not to be human. But I strongly believe that 90% of the time it's unintentional in most people.

I guess that's all easy to say for someone who's kinda detached anyway... I guess if I had very strong Fe and felt very involved and affected by things like that, it might be harder to stay open by default. But I don't, so...

I think that the harder your life's been, the more stigmatized or outcast you are, the less likely you are perhaps to judge other people, the more likely you are to accept others warts and all. The more consciously you desire this to be done for you too. I think that might be why I've always struggled to really click or get close to "normal" people... they just find it hard to allow themselves to be accepted for who they are, it's too ingrained in them that they have to always be trying and fitting in, etc. And I find it hard to have my acceptance and friendship thrown back at me all the time because a person just thinks it's too good to be true. I never close the door, you know, but there comes a point when I won't initiate any more.

Perhaps ENTP's being kinda stigmatized a lot for being crazy, this that or the other, it might be something that stands us in good stead when it comes to giving people a fair go.

Mmm...I recognize a lot of this. I share your views on judging others and your dislike of being judged. It's maybe the detached part that confuses me with ENTPs. You never seem to relax and let go and put your faith in the other, who you say you consider your friend. Like you are indeed constantly aware that they might wrong you at some point. I've also known ENTPs that judge quite harshly, though granted, they were unhealthy ones, probably. Almost, as if they were to retaliate for being judged themselves by the world. A defense mechanism, if you will.

My mummy said: Dont talk to foreigners !

Oh come on, entropie...how harmful can one little Belgian girl be

Yes, there is actually... I'd like to see a pic of your whole face on your profile page.

Pretty please?

EDIT: And there, I've answered one of your questions in this thread.

Yeah I second that ! Bring out the OOs

Oberon, you cheated. Request denied.

And entropie, he requested a picture of my face...in that context, can you explain what you mean with OOs?

 

[substitute]

Mmm...I recognize a lot of this. I share your views on judging others and your dislike of being judged. It's maybe the detached part that confuses me with ENTPs. You never seem to relax and let go and put your faith in the other, who you say you consider your friend. Like you are indeed constantly aware that they might wrong you at some point. I've also known ENTPs that judge quite harshly, though granted, they were unhealthy ones, probably. Almost, as if they were to retaliate for being judged themselves by the world. A defense mechanism, if you will.

I started to answer this, but I found I just had more and more and more to say about it until the post would've taken up like two pages or something, and since I figure this forum's probably running short on patience for me with the long posts lately, I've decided to store what I would've posted on my blog. So, if you want to read it, go here.