Eccentricity and MBTI

[Economica]

Why do people want to be seen as eccentric? Or at least want their type to be seen as eccentric.

All right, I will clarify.

I do not consider eccentricity in itself to be either a good or a bad thing. Deviating behavior is a priori neutral in my book. The OP asks which type is most prone to eccentricity and I stated my reasons for believing that it is the INTJ.

I also made jokes about singling my own type out. I did this because proteanmix and I have previously shared our frustration over the tendency of many threads to degenerate into people doing precisely that, but apparently it was too much of an in-joke.

I didn't mean you, dufus

Really? That wasn't obvious.

 

[proteanmix]

proteanmix, you know I'm on your team when it comes to countering S/N bias, but don't you find considerable overlap in the definition of eccentricity and the descriptions of Ni and Ne? I'm inclined to think some measure of eccentricity goes with the territory for Ns while developing decidedly odd behavior takes more for an S and especially an SJ (such as the cognitive dissonance I hypothesize in the thread about the RealDoll guys).

Regarding the most eccentric type, I'll put my money on INTJ (yes, my own type - sorry about that, proteanmix ). It's the type that combines relative independence of other people (I), self-contained certitude (NJ) and the don't-give-a-damn factor (T).

ec cen tric
–adjective
1. deviating from the recognized or customary character, practice, etc.; irregular; erratic; peculiar; odd: eccentric conduct; an eccentric person.
6. a person who has an unusual, peculiar, or odd personality, set of beliefs, or behavior pattern.
7. something that is unusual, peculiar, or odd.

I think any dominant perceiving type would be more likely to eccentric.

How are we defining eccentric? What behaviors count as eccentric? Dressing weird? Living on the side of mountain with minimal human contact? I think SPs fit the bill for that and STPs for not caring, especially ISTPs. SPs want freedom to act and they'll go to extreme measures to get the freedom they require, using whatever behaviors they deem necessary to do so. Pushing the envelope for what is acceptable is completely within their domain and I can see SPs acting out if they feel they're being hemmed in. SJs seem to be more likely to hide their eccentricities from the world because they feel ashamed of it. They realize they're not "conforming" but they still do it, just in secret. Just because the eccentricities aren't visible doesn't mean they're not there. In fact, I think SJs would be masters at cultivating surface conformity and they would feel the most cognitive dissonance about their "abnormal" behaviors.

How do people on this forum view eccentricity? I'm thinking that because so many people here were (are?) viewed as eccentric, weird, strange, erratic, misunderstood, etc. that being eccentric is viewed a positive (which I'm not saying it isn't, just generally saying. It's neutral in my eyes). It seems to me that most people revel in their eccentric status because it's become an ingrained positive personality trait that they need in order to feel good about themselves. It sets them apart and reinforces their views of their individuality which is fine. I like feeling like I have some uniqueness about myself, but the more I talk to people the more I recognize that I'm not all that special and people feel the same ways I do. Quite a blow to the self-esteem.

And are we talking about "obvious" wacky eccentricity that makes its round at the Oscars as the lovable, heartwarming, feel-good movie of the year peopled with characters who are so goshdarn crazy but well intentioned you can help but to love them? That's so cliche it's not even eccentric! I work with people like that and nobody bats an eye. But I live in a major city so it takes a lot more for me to think something's weird so that could be my perceptions kicking in.

As far as Ns go, yes I agree intuitive behavior seems superficially more eccentric, and I definitely agree about Ni being weirder, so I'm going with INJs as the weirdest N type. But like I said, I think sensors, especially SJs are more prone to hide their behavior which makes people think they're less eccentric. And less imaginative which I disagree with as well. I know many ISJs that keep the peculiarities of their personalities hidden because they're afraid of what the response for other people will be. So I think that Ns are more likely to let their eccentricities show, not that they're more eccentric.

So I ask once again for people to look for ways each type manifests eccentricity, not which type is more eccentric. For example, I'm watching that Guys and Dolls video now. The participants are SJs, they give their reasons for wanting a real doll and if you see how they treat them, they do very mundane and regular things. They dress them "normally" in fact I'd say quite conservatively one of them saying that they hate thongs and all things that are overtly sexual. I think members here are discounting the various ways in which eccentricity manifests itself.

 

[proteanmix]

Yeah, it seems to me like people are competing for "the most blank" trophies on this forum.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

It's an interesting discussion. My response on thread "ENTP world" ended up in Fluff Zone, but I trust in this point of mine: ENTP may like the appearance of someone dysfunctionally eccentric, while still maintaining the core capabilities with them.

If there is no "dysfunctional" part in "eccentric", I could agree with them being eccentric.

But there's another more interesting view, that of INTJ. Now it's interesting to me as 2 of my good friends are INTJ. The other disregards social niceties almost entirely, altho not appearing rude. He just chooses to answer questions when asked, and not to initiate conversation much otherwise. But it's too common for people to not to care about their environment as to judge them as eccentrics because of it. He is such a realist that I'd say he's more of a usual person rather than an eccentric.

The other one is a bit eccentric, but keeping it cool. He shows belief in what some people might consider conspiracy theories, or just unusual interpretations of the world, which may however be correct. He is light-hearted with the social customs, not being bothered if something is done in the most unusual way (or is this just because he's been so much with me?). He's happy to do unusual things, like when I mentioned some musical comedy from 50's, he re-enacted one performance from there on the street..

 

[Economica]

As far as Ns go, yes I agree intuitive behavior seems superficially more eccentric, and I definitely agree about Ni being weirder, so I'm going with INJs as the weirdest N type. But like I said, I think sensors, especially SJs are more prone to hide their behavior which makes people think they're less eccentric. (...) So I think that Ns are more likely to let their eccentricities show, not that they're more eccentric.

You don't buy into SJs caring about conformity for its own sake and hence needing more motivation to deviate from the norm (not just in appearance but in actual fact)? (I'm not sure where SPs fit into this.)

 

[FDG]

Every introverted function is eccentric.

Every non-well-defined function is eccentric.

So, Fi Ti Ni Ne Si are all eccentric functions. The only functions that are not, are Te Fe and Se.

As far as my experience goes, I have met uneccentric ENTPs and eccentric ISFJs.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Every introverted function is eccentric.

Every non-well-defined function is eccentric.

So, Fi Ti Ni Ne Si are all eccentric functions. The only functions that are not, are Te Fe and Se.

.

In that case, would not the most internally focused functions be most eccentric? That'd be Ti and Fi? Ti is more internally focused because it is tough-minded, more intensely aimed at its own direction and less reliant on the human element?

ISPs are the most eccentric of the sensors and INPs all in all.

ENPs are less eccentric because their Extroversion ties them to the convention more, and the Extroverted Judgment is stronger. (Third Te/Fe)

 

[Economica]

BlueWing, I will grant you that you are eccentric.

 

[proteanmix]

You don't buy into SJs caring about conformity for its own sake and hence needing more motivation to deviate from the norm (not just in appearance but in actual fact)? (I'm not sure where SPs fit into this.)

SJs value tradition. I think that they value it for it's own sake AND as an ideal. How often do people live up to their ideals? This is why I think they would be the most uncomfortable (esp. ESJs) about the friction between how they want to act and how they should act. The tension between personal happiness and group happiness would be strongest among SJs. I don't think Ns would feel this way because it would be "just who they are." They wouldn't view it as eccentricity, just being natural therefore it's only eccentric to outsiders, not to Ns which is why so many feel misunderstood.

Every introverted function is eccentric.

Every non-well-defined function is eccentric.

So, Fi Ti Ni Ne Si are all eccentric functions. The only functions that are not, are Te Fe and Se.

As far as my experience goes, I have met uneccentric ENTPs and eccentric ISFJs.

I quoted FDG because I agree that Te and Fe are the least eccentric functions. I think Se is the one perceiving function that would be the most consciously eccentric.

 

[FDG]

In that case, would not the most internally focused functions be most eccentric? That'd be Ti and Fi? Ti is more internally focused because it is tough-minded, more intensely aimed at its own direction and less reliant on the human element?

Possibly so, even though given that my frame of reference is socionics and yours MBTI, we are using a slightly differing meaning of the functions.

 

[The Ü™]

Why do people want to be seen as eccentric? Or at least want their type to be seen as eccentric.

Because eccentricity is also correlated with creativity.

 

[Economica]

Because eccentricity is also correlated with creativity.

You should watch that Guys and Dolls video.

 

[FDG]

I quoted FDG because I agree that Te and Fe are the least eccentric functions. I think Se is the one perceiving function that would be the most consciously eccentric.

I believe that what we see as eccentric in ESXPs is simply the fruit of their introverted judging function. Se cannot be eccentric since it's simple pure reality. Its filter, that creates conclusions, that create reaction, is what leads to eccentricity in behavior.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Possibly so, even though given that my frame of reference is socionics and yours MBTI, we are using a slightly differing meaning of the functions.

Typology should be thought of in terms of functions and not letters. If we adapt this epistemic methology, the distinction of socionics and MBTI will disappear.

Instead of saying INTP, we should say Ti-Ne.

Socionics calls Ti-Ne INTJ because the dominant function is a judging function. Thus, to socionics, J types are the ones with a primary Judging function. To MBTIc, J types are the ones with the Extroverted Judging function preceding the Introverted Judging function.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

I believe that what we see as eccentric in ESXPs is simply the fruit of their introverted judging function. .

Yes, indeed. It would not be fair to be fair to say that whatever eccentricity we see in ENPs is also merely the product of Introverted Judgment, as Intuition is also a factor. Introverted Judgment is more salient because it is with the judging functions transduce our intuitions into the substance that we could incorporate into our identity.

Si and Se are the most conventional functions because they are the most influenced by their external environment, whilst Te and Fe make external judgments of their own to a greater extent than the sensing functions. Ne and Ni in themselves gravitate more towards eccentricity than Ti and Fi, however, in regards to this matter we should take note of this diagram.

Ni relies either on Te or Fe to make sense of its own essence. Therefore this ties the INJ to the convention to a significant extent. INPs rely on the external environment to a smaller extent because they can make sense of their visions internally. Extroverted Intuition is less convention oriented than Extroverted Judgment because it is less externally focused.

 

[FDG]

Typology should be thought of in terms of functions and not letters. If we adapt this epistemic methology, the distinction of socionics and MBTI will disappear.

Instead of saying INTP, we should say Ti-Ne.

Socionics calls Ti-Ne INTJ because the dominant function is a judging function. Thus, to socionics, J types are the ones with a primary Judging function. To MBTIc, J types are the ones with the Extroverted Judging function preceding the Introverted Judging function.

Yes, but how can this difference be reconciled easily with real-world observations of INTPs and INTJs? For example, you are a pretty clear socionics INTp, as far as my knowledge of the system goes and as far as the posts from you that I've read.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Yes, but how can this difference be reconciled easily with real-world observations of INTPs and INTJs? For example, you are a pretty clear socionics INTp, as far as my knowledge of the system goes and as far as the posts from you that I've read.

Socionics INTp is Ni-Te. That is what we call an INTJ on this forum.

Ti-Ne and Ni-Te produce personalities that seem very similar in ordinary interactions. To truly see the differences between the two, we need to look more at how they think, rather than how they act. Our temperament is our unconscious tendencies that manifest most distinctly in our thoughts rather than our actions. Our actions are merely external manifestations of our thoughts. Thus, temperament is the essence. Personality is the appearance. Thought and action have the same relationship. So, unfortunately, as for real-life observations, you're out of luck. You need to study their unconscious tendencies to be able to see the difference clearly. For this reason Jung studied philosophy, as there it was easier for him to see how our unconscious tendencies worked. By studying how they think, rather then how they act.

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If you do such an inquiry, you will see that an Ni-Te is more of a visionary than an analyst. Ti-Ne is more of an analyst than a visionary. Nietzsche is a very typical Ni-Te and Descartes a typical Ti-Ne. That is because one is led by Thinking(Ti) and the Other by Intuition(Ni)
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You can however, get a glimpse of the unconscious minds of an Ni-Te and Ti-Ne works through real life observations by engaging them in conversation about intricate ideas.

If you talk to a Ti-Ne, they will likely gravitate towards establishing as close to incontrovertible logical axioms as possible. They will immediately proceed to analyze the claim you have made to ensure it is as devoid of error as possible. An Ni-Te will first explore ideas at as great of a length as possible and only later come to conclusions. (This will seem tricky because the Ni-Te has extroverted Judgment on the outside. They will be saying they found closure, whilst internally they would still be entertaining open-ended ideas (Ni). Whilst the Ti-Ne, externally will be tentative, but internally will have found closure. Ti). Our introverted functions are the strongest. Therefore Ti-Ne is a radical analyst and Ni-Te a radical Intuitionist. As again, we draw back to the Descartes (Ti-Ne), and Nietzsche(Ni-Te) comparison.

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I am certainly more of an analytical thinker rather than an intuitive one. Personalities like mine are much more common among Ti-Nes rather than Ni-Tes. However, I think I do understand the source of your confusion. Ni-Tes, use Extroverted Thinking when dealing with the external world. INTPs use Extroverted Intuition. So the former seem more forthright and definitive. My Ti is preponderous over my Ne. So it shows on the outside more than it does for other INTPs and therefore I seem like I use Thinking externally like an Ni-Te, but the reality of it is that it is merely the Ti projected onto the outside by Ne.

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The difference between me and a typical Ni-Te is that I use Thinking to figure out problems internally and then move my solutions onto the outside. An Ni-Te does not do this. Their thinking works on the outside and not the inside. They use their Thinking mostly to organize the external world, and not to solve ivory tower problems.
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[The Ü™]

Logically, however, N's have better common sense than S's.

 

[CzeCze]

Whoa- this is like an INFJ description all the way!
This has me nailed at least,lol.

[deletia]

Despite all this I am actually a happy go lucky bubbly and laughy individual. I live for comedy,lol.

Lady Pinkerton, you sound so cool! Maybe it's my bias because you sound like an ENFP and you have a badass wardrobe...



And ProteanMix -- OMG, wth is up with that video?? I thought it was a mockumentary at first. I have GOT to forward this to my film student friends... And yes, I will move the rest of my film comments to the original creepy doll thread... I can't keep my eyes off the screen! It's like a car wreck!

ENFP are just as crazy, except even more people love them.

Awww, shucks. And here I thought you didn't care.

Hahaha, seriously though I had no idea that ENXP and specifically ENFP were considered 'most likely to be eccentric' or flat out an eccentric type? That's illuminating for me and I'll have to process this vis-a-vis my own personal assessment of me.

 

[wildcat]

In your personal opinion, which type(s) do you think would be viewed as the most eccentric? Being specific, which type to you think would be most likely to have unusual (perhaps bordering on even heretical) opinions and views, a lack of concern or complete disregard of social norms and their appearance, cultivate odd and obscure interests and hobbies, have a very individualistic bent, and to display an array of uncommon habits, obsessions, fixations, phobias etc.?

INTP

The ENTP appear more eccentric. On account of transparency of the measure.